Mortgages by Walmart??

Thanks Bob for clearing that up for me!

That sounded suspiciously like my wife after a coffee induced rant.

The manufacturers have no one to blame but themselves and their elected union bosses to blame for their loss of business.

The manufacturers have no one to blame but themselves and their elected union bosses to blame for their loss of business.

Another ""please bend over" free trader has spoken. The corrupt proletariat forced all our factories offshore because they wanted major medical and more than minimum wage. Where were the voices of reason when NAFTA was signed? Answer: no on cared and no one continues to care. Perhaps we may all eventually be buried in Chinese coffins. It will raise our remaining relatives standard of living......as they deliver pizzas.

The manufacturers have no one to blame but themselves and their elected union bosses to blame for their loss of business.

Huge strawman statement there. The consumer durable and soft goods manufacturing sectors long ago started a big shift from the unionized North to right to work states in the South and Southeast. The percentage of manufacturing workers that are union members is at record lows.

I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of jobs that are being 'sent to China' these days were non-union jobs when they were in America.

In a heaslthy economy, there needs to be a balance between profits for those who invest labor into the business, and those who invest capital into the business. The old UAW contracts were clearly putting the good of labor at the expense of stockholders, but I think there's been a huge and potentially catastrophic shift over the past twenty years in rewarding the capital investors instead of (and at the expense of) the people who invest their labor into the business.

?Proletariat?? I didn?t know you were into Marx. However, I believe you meant that the corrupt bourgeoisie forced the factories offshore, since that fits your argument a little better. As for minimum wage and required medical insurance, it?s one reason that there are not more jobs here. If companies were free to choose the amount they pay their labor, including benefits, they?d pay what the market would bear. It would be in their best interest to pay a decent wage to their employees so they can retain them. As for investing labor or investing capital, like capital, labor can vote with its feet. No one is working at gunpoint. If American workers want to compete in a global economy, they need some skin in the game, specifically in education or specialized training. In other words, they need to be good at something other than showing up.

“Proletariat”? I didn’t know you were into Marx. However, I believe you meant that the corrupt bourgeoisie forced the factories offshore, since that fits your argument a little better. As for minimum wage and required medical insurance, it’s one reason that there are not more jobs here. If companies were free to choose the amount they pay their labor, including benefits, they’d pay what the market would bear. It would be in their best interest to pay a decent wage to their employees so they can retain them. As for investing labor or investing capital, like capital, labor can vote with its feet. No one is working at gunpoint. If American workers want to compete in a global economy, they need some skin in the game, specifically in education or specialized training. In other words, they need to be good at something other than showing up.

6thGen, your relatives were slaveholders I presume. Wages seek the lowest common denominator in a global market. If you offshore your manufacturing base, you gut the middle class for cheap goods. That's the greedy short sighted choice we have made as a nation. It's bad for America, unless you are a stock holder looking at the numbers every 3 months.

6thGen, your relatives were slaveholders I presume. Wages seek the lowest common denominator in a global market. If you offshore your manufacturing base, you gut the middle class for cheap goods. That's the greedy short sighted choice we have made as a nation. It's bad for America, unless you are a stock holder looking at the numbers every 3 months.

You treat it as a zero sum game. Who buys the items at lower prices? Just the stock holders? Where are the wages depressed? Given our incredibly low unemployment numbers, it's clear that everyone that wants a job has one.

You treat it as a zero sum game. Who buys the items at lower prices? Just the stock holders? Where are the wages depressed? Given our incredibly low unemployment numbers, it's clear that everyone that wants a job has one.

Wal vs. Costco

http://www.bac-america.org/buy_america_articles_and_more/american-made_apparel_in_so_ma.htm

I encourage everyone to watch this show, or read the online transcript:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/

Although saving money at Walmart is perception and not reality, the fact that you can buy a $39 microwave (how can you even ship a microwave from China for $39?) at many stores in America is a result of the Walmart-China joint venture.

While their partnership may not be the only reason America is declining and China is rising, it will be an important chapter in the history of a country that once was.

I encourage everyone to watch this show, or read the online transcript:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

Although saving money at Walmart is perception and not reality, the fact that you can buy a $39 microwave (how can you even ship a microwave from China for $39?) at many stores in America is a result of the Walmart-China joint venture.

While their partnership may not be the only reason America is declining and China is rising, it will be an important chapter in the history of a country that once was.

Alright :roll: , but after 20/20's real estate show is over.

I watched the PBS special and although it was informative, I wish it had addressed the actions our government needs to enforce to make China honor their WTO obligations. They manipulate their currency to create a discount on goods to the tune of about 20-40%, and pirate about 90% of our intellectual property rights.
Not sure how Walmart or any other manufacturer/importer could be blamed for working an unfair trade system that we are allowing to continue.

Milk is 2.99/gallon at Costco, and 3.88 at Wal-Mart. I've seen the same happy employees at the local store for years now with very little turnover. Costco stores are clean have many American made products, and their employees are well paid. Wal-Mart is the exact opposite, with a greater use of part-timers who have no benefits. With the exception of store level managers, their employees are poorly paid and their stores are not as clean, especially the local Sam's Wholesale. This is a corporate decision born of profit before people and community, and is not the vision of Sam Walton. I believe Wal-Mart has lost it's way and is building a very poor track record across our country. Price and corporate profit do not trump every other consideration in retail. Go ask the CEO of Target as this company donates 5 percent of pretax profits to charity. Mortgages by Wal-Mart? Can you imagine trusting the largest transaction of your life to an outfit with a bigger case of bad karma?

The Chinese are also hoping to enter European and North American auto markets in the near future. If this is typical of the quality of vehicle safety and craftsmanship, those cars should not be allowed into the country until basic flaws are corrected:

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/22/brilliance-bs6s-adac-crash-test-is-anything-but/

You are being short sighted. It's not about lowest at the expense of your country. With Wal Mart's massive economies of scale, goods in America can be produced cheaply with massive factory orders. Regarding Chinese quality, well what product group are you talking about? Pencils, microprocessors, cars, shampoo? We've given away the farm with their currency manipulation and have enabled our own deficit spending because they buy huge chunks of our debt. It's bad business for America to do these things for low prices, because the scenario I point out weakens our country, and is not fiscally sustainable in the long run. It's much like the Latin bumrush across our borders. Personally, I can remember paying 200.00 for my first DVD player at Costco. Now 30.00 buys one made in China. Every room in my house that has a TV has a DVD player. Do I need them? No. Does it raise my standard of living? I would argue no. I would rather pay 99.00 for one American made player built by Americans. There would be less trade deficit, less foreign influence from our debt purchase, and more national strength through manufacturing infrastructure. Our country would be more self sufficient and could not easily be held hostage by any country or group like OPEC. This was the scenario we had during the cold war. China owns us business wise, and we rely on them too much for manufacturing sourcing. One day they're going to face us down when we object to their military ambitions. Will we have the sway to make our position stick when they produce most of our everyday goods? That's the true cost of your cheap Chinese products we take for granted today, much like OPEC and terrorism, our dollars our slowly funding a problematic rival at the expense of our autonomy and way of life.

How about I buy some of those $30 dvd players and sell them to you for $99 and the American who would've had to make it can go do something more productive with his time. That extra $69 will go to an american and stay here in America... buy 2 and I'll spend it locally..dinner.. maybe at Stinky's. Must be tough seeing enemies everywhere "latin bumrush", "communist China", sneaky A-rabs.

How about I buy some of those $30 dvd players and sell them to you for $99 and the American who would've had to make it can go do something more productive with his time. That extra $69 will go to an american and stay here in America... buy 2 and I'll spend it locally..dinner.. maybe at Stinky's. Must be tough seeing enemies everywhere "latin bumrush", "communist China", sneaky A-rabs.

Hated that factory work, did you? Perhaps we could characterize 10-20 million illegals as the Latin Waltz, as I don't see why they would all leave when Ford's paying 3 bucks an hour to assemble Fusions. The Latins, Chinese,and A-Rabs are not our enemies. They just all want in on the almighty dollar whether it be by the sweat of their brow or the cost of their products. I believe we've sold ourselves out to profit in the short run. Anyone need a pizza delivered??

Whaddya got against folks who deliver pizzas? Should I aspire to making socks instead? Why do some people think we need to be making pencils, shampoos, DVD's to be a great country? I don't know anyone who works in the service industry such as "delivering pizzas" I also don't know anyone, personally, who manufactures anything. Everyone I know that wants a job has a job and all seem to be making out at them pretty well. Maybe that changes in the coming times, I'll keep an open mind. Will you?

Whaddya got against folks who deliver pizzas? Should I aspire to making socks instead? Why do some people think we need to be making pencils, shampoos, DVD's to be a great country? I don't know anyone who works in the service industry such as "delivering pizzas" I also don't know anyone, personally, who manufactures anything. Everyone I know that wants a job has a job and all seem to be making out at them pretty well. Maybe that changes in the coming times, I'll keep an open mind. Will you?

I'm disparaging the lack of benefits/wages in the service sector, not the job holder. Manufacturing jobs pay more on average with higher wages, benefits, and a retirement. China is not just manufacturing pencils. I suspect the very computer you pecked out this message on is Chinese. Free trade has cannibalized a great deal of our manufacturing base. It's not good long term policy to abdicate your autonomy to our eventual rival for world leadership. We are too dependent on China, whether it's Dell computers or pencils, and that makes us weaker.

I'm disparaging the lack of benefits/wages in the service sector, not the job holder. Manufacturing jobs pay more on average with higher wages, benefits, and a retirement. China is not just manufacturing pencils. I suspect the very computer you pecked out this message on is Chinese. Free trade has cannibalized a great deal of our manufacturing base. It's not good long term policy to abdicate your autonomy to our eventual rival for world leadership. We are too dependent on China, whether it's Dell computers or pencils, and that makes us weaker.

Bob,
No one is stopping you from buying pencils, computers, etc. from US companies. No one is stopping you from opening a factory and producing pencils, or producing computers. I just ask that you don't try to dictate my line of work, or my choice of purchases.

Bob,
No one is stopping you from buying pencils, computers, etc. from US companies. No one is stopping you from opening a factory and producing pencils, or producing computers. I just ask that you don't try to dictate my line of work, or my choice of purchases.

Well spoken, free trade comrade. No go check your "made in" labels on all the items in your office, and tell me if that strengthens our country in both economic and diplomatic terms. Let's see, who invented the word "kowtow".

If we would end the war and stop wasting lives and hundreds of billions of dollars , we could invest here in America. We must get our fiscal house in order in America. The enormous waste of taxpayer money is mind boggling !! Earmarks or whatever the hell Pelosi is calling them must end. Too much corruption in Washington and in the rest of state gov't too. The next president needs a veto pen with indelible ink. We don't need tax increases but we do need spending discipline. I shutter to think what will happen if the Chinese and the Petro dollar sheiks decide not to buy U.S. treasuries or rollover the debt when it comes due. We would be in financial chaos if that ever happened. It would be economic warfare and we would LOSE. The more we borrow the more we are slittting our economic neck. We need to concentrate on the enormous problems facing us and stop being the big bully around the world !!! If countries want to be democratic, let them fight and create it themselves. We can help and encourage but the dieing for it is not our responsibility. I am fed up with all the money we spend here and abroad. It is an enormous waste. Help Western Europe,( the new French gov't may actually help us), Israel and the nations in our hemisphere but flip everyone else the bird. Time to stop being the biggest patsy on Earth.

If we would end the war and stop wasting lives and hundreds of billions of dollars , we could invest here in America. We must get our fiscal house in order in America. The enormous waste of taxpayer money is mind boggling !! Earmarks or whatever the hell Pelosi is calling them must end. Too much corruption in Washington and in the rest of state gov't too. The next president needs a veto pen with indelible ink. We don't need tax increases but we do need spending discipline. I shutter to think what will happen if the Chinese and the Petro dollar sheiks decide not to buy U.S. treasuries or rollover the debt when it comes due. We would be in financial chaos if that ever happened. It would be economic warfare and we would LOSE. The more we borrow the more we are slittting our economic neck. We need to concentrate on the enormous problems facing us and stop being the big bully around the world !!! If countries want to be democratic, let them fight and create it themselves. We can help and encourage but the dieing for it is not our responsibility. I am fed up with all the money we spend here and abroad. It is an enormous waste. Help Western Europe,( the new French gov't may actually help us), Israel and the nations in our hemisphere but flip everyone else the bird. Time to stop being the biggest patsy on Earth.

Goofer,

Geeze bud...unless you've got the farm tied up with Brookstreet Securities, just open a cold one and enjoy the sunset--the economic meltdown isn't going to happen overnight. The Chinese will get what's coming to them when they discover all those USA subprime CDOs aren't worth the paper they're printed on

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Goofer,

Geeze bud...unless you've got the farm tied up with Brookstreet Securities, just open a cold one and enjoy the sunset--the economic meltdown isn't going to happen overnight. The Chinese will get what's coming to them when they discover all those USA subprime CDOs aren't worth the paper they're printed on

.

If you ever write a book, fiction or non-fiction, can I get on the list to proof or just see a rough draft? I've been lurking the last 5 months or so and catching up on posts. Your's have stood out. Fell off my chair a time or two laughing and I can't find any reason to to argue with you....yet. Don't really want to though either.:shock:

If you ever write a book, fiction or non-fiction, can I get on the list to proof or just see a rough draft?

I'm flattered...but I already made a promise to Oprah.


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Well spoken, free trade comrade. No go check your "made in" labels on all the items in your office, and tell me if that strengthens our country in both economic and diplomatic terms. Let's see, who invented the word "kowtow".

I believe that there would be more damage to the Chinese if we quit purchasing their goods than there is to us for purchasing them. For an example, look at your premise that Wal-Mart destroys small towns by eliminating small businesses (that overcharge). When folks quit buying from the small businesses and buy from Wal-Mart, the consumers win via more disposable income and the producers, or distributers lose their source of income. Unless we are forced to purchase from the Chinese, we are in the driver's seat.

I believe that there would be more damage to the Chinese if we quit purchasing their goods than there is to us for purchasing them. For an example, look at your premise that Wal-Mart destroys small towns by eliminating small businesses (that overcharge). When folks quit buying from the small businesses and buy from Wal-Mart, the consumers win via more disposable income and the producers, or distributers lose their source of income. Unless we are forced to purchase from the Chinese, we are in the driver's seat.

Yes, I've heard the we can default, we can quit buying argument. It's what an economic junkie would say waiting for the next debt sale fix. If China undertakes an invasion of a sovereign state such as Taiwan, we will look the other way out of economic dependence and expediency born of short sighted "profit before country" policies. Free trade is not to be worshipped as religion, because it has a very dark side of unintended consequences. Imagine allowing free trade the ability to gut our agricultural sector. Just like the Tolstoy quote about not knowing the horrors of war until someone close to you dies, if you've not been sacked because of our whore-like relationship with China, who cares....right?