Might this be the first big one?
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/09/business/09corus.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
"...Today, developers owe Corus $4 billion, $3.7 billion of which, or 92 percent, is in condominiums. Of that, about 25 percent of them are in projects in the Miami area and 9 percent are in Las Vegas, according to regulatory filings. More than $2.15 billion of its outstanding loans are due by the end of this year. Nationwide, the number of condos completed this year will be up 45 percent ? 232,933 vs. 160,239 ? from 2006, according to data tracked by Marcus & Millichap Real Estate Investment Services, a real estate investment brokerage based in Encino, Calif. ..."
And what about these guys, struggling to shore-up the rather
opaque "conduits," "Structured Investment Vehicles" and other
off-balance-sheet crap that they created:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=al1pBplw2gaU&refer=home
"Oct. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Citigroup Inc. and JPMorgan Chase & Co. are leading a group of banks that are in talks with the U.S. Treasury about a plan to revive the asset-backed commercial paper market. ..."
and this comment:
"...Treasury is playing a ``a facilitator's role,'' said Joseph Mason, an associate professor of business at Drexel University in Philadelphia and a former financial economist at the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency.."
"facilitator's role?"
How does tax money figure into that?
Are we heading towards this again?:
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_Trust_Corporation[/ame]
Evidently we did not learn much the first time around.
"We learn from history that we learn nothing from history"
(George Bernard Shaw)
This might make some interesting reading for the bored:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Florida-Land-Boom-Speculation-Money/dp/1567200133"]Amazon.com: The Florida Land Boom: Speculation, Money, and the Banks: William Frazer, John J. Guthrie: Books[/ame]
Pretty pricey for an -out-of-print book, but then maybe some
see present-day relevance in a story 80 years old.
Looking for opportunities, I imagine.
Replies
54Beach Lover
I see opportunity knocking for those that waited.
I also agree. I almost bought in 2005. I am paying cash so it would not have been the end of the world. But boy am I glad to be on the sidelines waiting.
I also agree that it is still too soon to jump in. Better to be a little late than too early in this type of down real estate market. Prices could easily fall a good bit more, but probably won't bounce back up too quickly when the market does eventually turn around.
JMHO
Flyguy
Beach Lover
......"if my life sucks, I hope yours sucks too"
Au contraire
My life does not suck.
True, we don't own beachfront property on the panhandle.
But we do get to occasionally vacation there.
And we do have 7.5 acres of undeveloped lakefront
land, purchased (3) years ago for cash.
And the wife bought a new Toyota last year. Also for cash.
Made her quite happy
Our modest home is almost paid for (we could pay it off, but
at 5.5 apr, why bother?).
We are actually quite content.
But we do not have cable.
We don't miss not having cable, however.
We are much entertained by the "reality show"
occuring all around us.
Wth no commerical interruptions.
I am glad to hear how content you are, and I wish you continued financial happiness. I only hope that you are forced find another form of entertainment than the current economic situation of others on the panhandle.
Beach FanaticAuthor
"... I only hope that you are forced find another form of entertainment than the current economic situation of others on the panhandle...."
(Continously clicking the remote control)
but there's nothing else on....
Look at the bright side: the troubles in the real estate
sector extend WAY beyond the panhandle
(Continously clicking the remote control)
but there's nothing else on....
Look at the bright side: the troubles in the real estate
sector extend WAY beyond the panhandle
Beach Lover
I give up....
Beach FanaticAuthor
"I give up.... "
You surrender too quickly.
As do many others in our "victim" society.
Too quick to act impetuously, too quick to acquiese
There is opportunity in the panhandle and elsewhere
but not necessarily today.
Be ready.
?If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six hours sharpening my ax?
A. Lincoln (Former President and current dead guy)
You surrender too quickly.
As do many others in our "victim" society.
Too quick to act impetuously, too quick to acquiese
There is opportunity in the panhandle and elsewhere
but not necessarily today.
Be ready.
?If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six hours sharpening my ax?
A. Lincoln (Former President and current dead guy)
Beach Lover
I see opportunity knocking for those that waited.
I also agree that it is still too soon to jump in. Better to be a little late than too early in this type of down real estate market. Prices could easily fall a good bit more, but probably won't bounce back up too quickly when the market does eventually turn around.
JMHO
Flyguy
bingo - the downside of waiting is a lot less than the downside of jumping in early. as i say each year i am fortunate enough to get a raise - a 4% increase of not much is what do you know...not much.
SoWal Insider
bingo - the downside of waiting is a lot less than the downside of jumping in early. as i say each year i am fortunate enough to get a raise - a 4% increase of not much is what do you know...not much.
With inflation it is about -3%.
.
Meow
With inflation it is about -3%.
.
Debbie Downer
SoWal Insider
"...Fun to watch? I have heard this attitude from a few people....what the hell is fun about it? Hardworking people getting laid off?You are the show!
As I have posted elsewhere on this board, I have had one employer
go bankrupt and dissolve on me, and my wife has been permanently
laid-off from not one but TWO jobs.
Been there. Done that. Stayed finacially solvent
Besides, the problems with the whole real estate/ sub prime/alt-a/etc.
mess have not been, generally speaking, arrising from issues with
the termination of employement.
"...People losing their life savings in real estate? People relocating their families hoping for a better life only to end up in financial ruin.....Maybe you would enjoy dog fighting and midget tossing too. .."
I am against midget tossing. It is my understanding that the gold medalist
in midget tossing was on sterioids.
Perhaps if the midgets themselves used sterioids...
'...There seems to be an attitude from some that seems to enjoy seeing people fail, especially those who may have ridden the bubble to some success, only to have it explode under them..."
If you ride a bubble, and the bubble "pops," dropping you arse back
to planet Earth, I happen to think that is EXTREMEMLY funny.
If your "success" dissolves that easily, then it really wasn't "success,"
now was it?
No apologies.
Now, intermission is over and the show is starting anew....
Beach FanaticAuthor
"...You are the show! ..."
Now if I just could figure out a way to capitalize on it.
Perhaps an NPR radio program.
Something like, "A Repo Home Companion"
Now if I just could figure out a way to capitalize on it.
Perhaps an NPR radio program.
Something like, "A Repo Home Companion"
Beach Lover
I'm the show? What an ass. You have no idea who I am, what I do, etc....and you assume that I am defending myself via some rant. I am not going to post my personal financials on here like some would, but I am fine, my point is that there seems to almost be a joyful attitude watching others suffer, and I do not understand it. I was only trying to fathom why someone would get their jollies watching others suffer, it is beyond me, but Karma is a *****.
Beach Fanatic
Schadenfreude!! And Yellow Hammer I think you are mixing Bob's post with Capricious's and responding. Bob was saying Capricious is the show.
Edited
Beach FanaticAuthor
"...I'm the show? What an ass. ..."
I did not say that- someone else did.
Learn to read.
"..You have no idea who I am, what I do, etc....and you assume that I am defending myself via some rant..."
Hmm. YOU were the one attacking me.
Which I took with good humor.
Just where did you need to defend yourself against little ole me?
"I am not going to post my personal financials on here like some would, but I am fine"
Never said you were not. Where did this come from?
"..my point is that there seems to almost be a joyful attitude watching others suffer, and I do not understand it. I was only trying to fathom why someone would get their jollies watching others suffer, it is beyond me, but Karma is a *****.[/QUOTE]'
Just a year ago I would listen to people talk about the "killer deals"
that they had made in real estate.
Now their deals are killing them.
Do I think that's that funny?
You betcha.
Because it means that I just may be able to buy what I could
not conceive of buying a year or two ago.
It means the pennies I saved by not having cable TV or a cell
phone or a fancy new car or a big house or dinners out or etc.
etc. etc. are now going to allow me to do things that others
can not.
It means that the sacrifice is going to pay off.
And I am one happy camper.
I did not say that- someone else did.
Learn to read.
"..You have no idea who I am, what I do, etc....and you assume that I am defending myself via some rant..."
Hmm. YOU were the one attacking me.
Which I took with good humor.
Just where did you need to defend yourself against little ole me?
"I am not going to post my personal financials on here like some would, but I am fine"
Never said you were not. Where did this come from?
"..my point is that there seems to almost be a joyful attitude watching others suffer, and I do not understand it. I was only trying to fathom why someone would get their jollies watching others suffer, it is beyond me, but Karma is a *****.[/QUOTE]'
Just a year ago I would listen to people talk about the "killer deals"
that they had made in real estate.
Now their deals are killing them.
Do I think that's that funny?
You betcha.
Because it means that I just may be able to buy what I could
not conceive of buying a year or two ago.
It means the pennies I saved by not having cable TV or a cell
phone or a fancy new car or a big house or dinners out or etc.
etc. etc. are now going to allow me to do things that others
can not.
It means that the sacrifice is going to pay off.
And I am one happy camper.
SoWal Expert
A Repo Home Companion"
Hilarious! Perhaps the show could be set at a different auction or foreclosure each week ;-).
The comic potential of auctioning the pool table, dining set, and plasma TVs from the mobile home you posted .......
Financial fool of the week (sent in by listeners) wins a free consultation with a financial adviser and a copy of "you can't afford it stupid, the dummies guide to buying on credit" :roll:
SoWal Insider
Schadenfreude!! And Yellow Hammer I think you are mixing Bob's post with Capricious's and responding. Bob was saying Capricious is the show.Yellow Hammer, you the man, Capricious is the show, and I'm pollyannaish....
SoWal Insider
"...I'm the show? What an ass. ..."'
I did not say that- someone else did.
Learn to read.
"..You have no idea who I am, what I do, etc....and you assume that I am defending myself via some rant..."
Hmm. YOU were the one attacking me.
Which I took with good humor.
Just where did you need to defend yourself against little ole me?
"I am not going to post my personal financials on here like some would, but I am fine"
Never said you were not. Where did this come from?
"..my point is that there seems to almost be a joyful attitude watching others suffer, and I do not understand it. I was only trying to fathom why someone would get their jollies watching others suffer, it is beyond me, but Karma is a *****.
Just a year ago I would listen to people talk about the "killer deals"
that they had made in real estate.
Now their deals are killing them.
Do I think that's that funny?
You betcha.
Because it means that I just may be able to buy what I could
not conceive of buying a year or two ago.
It means the pennies I saved by not having cable TV or a cell
phone or a fancy new car or a big house or dinners out or etc.
etc. etc. are now going to allow me to do things that others
can not.
It means that the sacrifice is going to pay off.
And I am one happy camper.[/QUOTE]I think dial-up may cause anger.
Beach Fanatic
"...I'm the show? What an ass. ..."'
I did not say that- someone else did.
Learn to read.
"..You have no idea who I am, what I do, etc....and you assume that I am defending myself via some rant..."
Hmm. YOU were the one attacking me.
Which I took with good humor.
Just where did you need to defend yourself against little ole me?
"I am not going to post my personal financials on here like some would, but I am fine"
Never said you were not. Where did this come from?
"..my point is that there seems to almost be a joyful attitude watching others suffer, and I do not understand it. I was only trying to fathom why someone would get their jollies watching others suffer, it is beyond me, but Karma is a *****.
Soooo it is a good market. Right? Perception. Right?
Edited
Beach Fanatic
Hey Cap - some child has hijacked your user name and is soiling your reputation posting on this message board. Thought you should know.
Beach FanaticAuthor
"...Soooo it is a good market. Right? Perception. Right?..."
Since this has all gotten so confusing I will recap:
It is an "OK" market if you want to buy.
But the future will bring a much better market for buyers.
It is a lousy market if you want to sell.
And the future will get even worse for sellers
At least until we go from the "bust" part of the cycle
back to the "boom". Which will take a few years, I think.
This prediction excludes actual waterfront property- there are
always rich people ready to purchase prime.
But once you get back to second, third, fourth tier etc. you are
dealing with people who usually are more vulnerable to economic
trends.
I would also lump most condos in the latter group
Anyway, that's my opinion.
And I always have one.
Since this has all gotten so confusing I will recap:
It is an "OK" market if you want to buy.
But the future will bring a much better market for buyers.
It is a lousy market if you want to sell.
And the future will get even worse for sellers
At least until we go from the "bust" part of the cycle
back to the "boom". Which will take a few years, I think.
This prediction excludes actual waterfront property- there are
always rich people ready to purchase prime.
But once you get back to second, third, fourth tier etc. you are
dealing with people who usually are more vulnerable to economic
trends.
I would also lump most condos in the latter group
Anyway, that's my opinion.
And I always have one.
SoWal Insider
At least until we go from the "bust" part of the cycle
back to the "boom". Which will take a few years, I think.
Quantify the adjective "boom."
.
Beach FanaticAuthor
"...Quantify the adjective "boom."
2004 vs 2007
2004 vs 2007
SoWal Insider
"...Quantify the adjective "boom."
2004 vs 2007
Cap,
In the "next few years" what economic scenario do you envision will restart the Florida RE land grab circa 2004?
.
Beach Fanatic
'I think dial-up may cause anger.[/quote]
Just a year ago I would listen to people talk about the "killer deals"
that they had made in real estate.
Now their deals are killing them.
Do I think that's that funny?
You betcha.
Because it means that I just may be able to buy what I could
not conceive of buying a year or two ago.
It means the pennies I saved by not having cable TV or a cell
phone or a fancy new car or a big house or dinners out or etc.
etc. etc. are now going to allow me to do things that others
can not.
It means that the sacrifice is going to pay off.
And I am one happy camper.
Dial-up'll do that.Beach FanaticAuthor
"...In the "next few years" what economic scenario do you envision will restart the Florida RE land grab circa 2004?..."
Ah, come-on Shelly;
Ya gotta give them SOMETHING to grab ahold of.
You tell these people (current owners) that it will be
a decade (or more) before they see prices like 2004 again,
and they'll be jumping out of the 30th story windows of
those big Panama City Beach condo complexes.
Ah, come-on Shelly;
Ya gotta give them SOMETHING to grab ahold of.
You tell these people (current owners) that it will be
a decade (or more) before they see prices like 2004 again,
and they'll be jumping out of the 30th story windows of
those big Panama City Beach condo complexes.
SoWal Insider
I think dial-up may cause anger.
Dial-up'll do that.[/QUOTE]Die AOL, Die!!!!!Checking your forum account
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