New developments in PCB?

First it was make it thru the hurricane season with no major storm and the market will turn. Next the PCB realtors said as soon as we break ground on the new PCB airport the market will take off. Yet prices continue to fall daily.

Now some are latching onto gambling as the new savior with casinos going into all the conference centers in the larger condo buildings ( like Laketown Wharf).

I think this is another pipe dream. It does not fit the model of any casino developments as casinos are now being built on huge scales (see Biloxi) to compete. If casinos do come to PCB they will be inland where they can be built on massive scales with their own attached hotels.

JMHO,
Flyguy

They're attempting to lure folks into the market by jingling shiny trinkets...it worked before (baby boomers, no more land, real estate only goes up). Problem is, all the folks who are attracted by such drivel have already bought and are now the ones who are trying to dump.


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Lake Town Wharf does look like a casino, ill agree. I personally, as a Realtor and resident of the area don't think that a casino, airport, or anything other than price is going to fix out current market. Fact of the matter is The inventory is way to high and prices have not dropped enough. Stating the obvious I suppose.

Lake Town Wharf does look like a casino, ill agree. I personally, as a Realtor and resident of the area don't think that a casino, airport, or anything other than price is going to fix out current market. Fact of the matter is The inventory is way to high and prices have not dropped enough. Stating the obvious I suppose.

Good for you! That's one-in-a-row.

(Although not completely unexpected in view of your affilliation with "Propertyfiresale.com" )


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(Although not completely unexpected in view of your affilliation with "Propertyfiresale.com" )


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HAHA That was pretty funny.

HAHA That was pretty funny.

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No, not exactly funny.......Just another observation by:





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Thanks for the new tar SHELLY. You say you love parties with free snacks, but are you any fun at them?

Thanks for the new tar SHELLY. You say you love parties with free snacks, but are you any fun at them?

Fun? Of course! I'm like a cross between Rodney Dangerfield, Lucille Ball and Alan Greenspan.


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Sounds like triple funn to me

A casino will pump up real estate values but probably only in the immediate vicinity of the facility. No doubt that expansion of the entertainment options increases both the number of tourist and frequency of the trips. I joined the discussion not to pump real estate but because I think the Seminole story is fascinating - from destitute in the 80's, to owner of Hard Rock (I love the comment from the chief about buying back Manhatten one hamburger at a time). Looks to me like the Seminoles are going to be the one major player in the State as it relates to gaming. I think their entry into the Florida panhandle as a hotel casino is not a matter of if, but when. Maybe it's massive, maybe not. The Tampa hotel casino is pretty modest.

Fun? Of course! I'm like a cross between Rodney Dangerfield, Lucille Ball and Alan Greenspan.


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that's 2 ugly men and one beautiful woman. is this a hint?

Bob - don't know if you would consider any of the places "livable", but many cities in the US besides Vegas and Atlantic City have some gambling related interests. I think one of those cities is about 45 minuntes down I-4 from you. That city's landbased casino is going thru some pretty significant expansion as we speak. As to Shelly's comments about Vegas and real estate, I'm indifferent to gambling but without it, Vegas would be inhabited by little more than sand. Might not be for everyone, but hard not to be impressed with places like the Wynn and Bellagio.

I've got an Escalade to sell you then. Whitewalls?

Escalade! Yo, why u dumpin dat pimped realtor car?

Escalade! Yo, why u dumpin dat pimped realtor car?

you be wantin the 26s for the valet at the Bellagio?

Are there any gambling cities out there that anyone would consider livable? Is this the right path for PC?

I used to live in Henderson, Nevada about 10 minutes from the Las Vegas strip and 3 minutes from Green Valley Ranch Casino. I don't consider Panama City to be livable.

Hey Fish - throw another low blow.... you might connect with both next time

Here come the Seminoles .... and I'm not talking about the football team.

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSB26625520071114

anybody see the news on this?
http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/11/12/daily29.html

anybody see the news on this?
http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2007/11/12/daily29.html

Thanks Swantree. From the article: "The agreement includes a disincentive for future gambling expansion in Florida. The state would forfeit its share of the tribe's revenue if such expansion occurs on non-tribal land, except at certain pari-mutual facilities in Broward and Miami-Dade counties."

The expanded gambling will be taking place on seven properties located on tribal lands.

Also, from this morning's St. Pete Times:

What kinds of casino games are legal now in Florida?

Poker is allowed at parimutuels (horse and dog tracks and jai alai frontons). Three Broward County racetracks got Las Vegas-style (Class III) slot machines after county voters approved a local option referendum in 2005.

The Seminole and Miccosukee Indians have bingo-based Class II machines and poker.

Florida-based gambling boats offer table games such as blackjack and roulette outside state waters, but they are illegal in the state.


Would the compact announced Wednesday lead to expanded gambling outside Indian casinos?

Not likely. Parimutuel owners argue that the deal, particularly the addition of new card games, will give the Seminoles an unfair competitive advantage. Some state lawmakers are talking about legislation to give them new games, like video lottery terminals. But House leaders oppose expanded gambling, and the Seminoles could cut off payments to the state if the devices are sanctioned.


It appears to me that any rumors of casino gambling in PCB are completely unfounded, and only being circulated in hopes of boosting the real estate market. The state is not going to expand gambling -- the House doesn't want it and the Senate is even more conservative.

Bay County voters would not have the right to vote gambling in themselves (not that they likely would). In 2004, a statewide referendum (that passed narrowly) allowed a vote on slot machines in Miami-Dade and Broward counties only. Miami-Dade residents voted down slots, Broward didn't..

What makes you think the Seminoles can't expand into other areas of the State? The Compact allows Indian gaming on "Indian Lands". For purposes of casino gaming, "Indian Lands" potentially has a very expansive meaning. Ever heard of a "far flung" Indian reservation. You might want to brush up on the phrase. For Indian gaming, three cases already exist where Indian gaming was permitted by the Feds on land acquired more for its market potential than any historical significance. BTW, expansion of gaming is never a disincentive for future expansion of gaming. Craps and Roulette was left out of the Compact not to appease the anti-gamblers (although it serves as a convenient rationale), but to leave the State a bargaining chip when the State violates the exclusivity clause, which it inevitably will.

What makes you think the Seminoles can't expand into other areas of the State? The Compact allows Indian gaming on "Indian Lands". For purposes of casino gaming, "Indian Lands" potentially has a very expansive meaning. Ever heard of a "far flung" Indian reservation. You might want to brush up on the phrase. For Indian gaming, three cases already exist where Indian gaming was permitted by the Feds on land acquired more for its market potential than any historical significance. BTW, expansion of gaming is never a disincentive for future expansion of gaming. Craps and Roulette was left out of the Compact not to appease the anti-gamblers (although it serves as a convenient rationale), but to leave the State a bargaining chip when the State violates the exclusivity clause, which it inevitably will.

Go ahead and read the compact. It specifically states that it applies only to the following seven locations:

Seminole Indian Casino - Brighton
Highway 721 ? Brighton Indian Reservation, Route 6 Box 611
Okeechobee, FL 34974

Seminole Indian Casino - Coconut Creek
5550 NW 40th St.
Coconut Creek, FL 33073

Seminole Indian Casino - Hollywood
4150 N. St. Rd. 7
Hollywood, FL 33021

Seminole Indian Casino - Immokalee
506 S. 1st Street
Immokalee, FL 34142

Seminole Indian Casino - Big Cypress
30013 Josie Billie Hwy.
Clewiston, FL 33440

Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino - Hollywood
1 Seminole Way
Hollywood, FL 33314

Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino - Tampa
5223 N. Orient Rd.
Tampa, FL 33610

The compact also states that the above locations may be replaced by another facility on the same reservation, but that's the limit of what is permitted.

I DO need to "brush up" on the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988 ... but in the meantime, please link to some information about the three cases you refer to. I briefly looked up this issue (very briefly) a week or two ago, and from what I've read, the law is not going to allow for wholesale expansion in this manner. Though I would have to find those articles again ...

Take a look at where Indian gaming can be conducted "in theory". While the Compact mentions those specific facilities you describe, I believe it expressly permits gaming on "Indian Lands" which means any lands held in trust for the Indians including after-acquired lands which may or may not be contiguous to a reservation. There is even some question as to whether it might encompass land acquired outside of the home state. While Governor Crist might have some say on whether gaming occurs on those lands (if he hasn't already by consenting to gaming on "Indian Lands"), he seems more favorable to the Seminoles than his predecessor. http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/issinfo/gambind.htm#LAND

Take a look at where Indian gaming can be conducted "in theory". While the Compact mentions those specific facilities you describe, I believe it expressly permits gaming on "Indian Lands" which means any lands held in trust for the Indians including after-acquired lands which may or may not be contiguous to a reservation. There is even some question as to whether it might encompass land acquired outside of the home state. While Governor Crist might have some say on whether gaming occurs on those lands (if he hasn't already by consenting to gaming on "Indian Lands"), he seems more favorable to the Seminoles than his predecessor. http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/issinfo/gambind.htm#LAND

When the time is right, St Joe and Chief Cotton for Brains will "discover" that some of the "Great Northwest" is tribal land--they won't know exactly where it is until the new highway system gets built out.


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Hey TooFarTampa - thought I would bump this to remind you of the discussion back in November. Here's an article about the Senate passing a bill to expand gambling statewide. Watch the the Seminole Compact definition of gaming. Currently, it doesn't include craps and roulette, but it will if this bill becomes law. The Governor will claim that he no alternative but to permit craps and roulette or risk losing the 150 million dollars because the Legislature violated the exclusivity of the Seminoles. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/sfl-flfslots0314sbmar14,0,7418476.story

Craps and Roulette was left out of the Compact not to appease the anti-gamblers (although it serves as a convenient rationale), but to leave the State a bargaining chip when the State violates the exclusivity clause, which it inevitably will.

You definitely called this one!

Hey TooFarTampa - thought I would bump this to remind you of the discussion back in November. Here's an article about the Senate passing a bill to expand gambling statewide. Watch the the Seminole Compact definition of gaming. Currently, it doesn't include craps and roulette, but it will if this bill becomes law. The Governor will claim that he no alternative but to permit craps and roulette or risk losing the 150 million dollars because the Legislature violated the exclusivity of the Seminoles. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/sfl-flfslots0314sbmar14,0,7418476.story

I skimmed an item about this today and thought of this very thread. Interesting lead to the story you linked: "Covetously eyeing the hundreds of millions it could bring into state coffers, the Florida Senate on Thursday approved a plan to expand gambling statewide..."

I don't think it matters much to the House that Rubio disapproves since he is a lame duck anyway, right?

So if Crist keeps upping the ante, so to speak, what legal grounds does he have to allow the Seminoles to expand beyond those seven locations? It would still be illegal. Am I correct that such a decision would have to go to the ballot? The economy would really have to be in the toilet for the voters to agree to a large scale gambling expansion, not that we are not headed there quickly...

I suspect Rubio is just looking out for the south Florida gambling interests and trying to keep the Seminoles in check for competitive reasons (just speculating). The House will probably be horsetrading on those two bills (you give us video lottery statewide and we give Miami gaming interests a tax break).No way does Las Vegas style gambling stay only in the seven specific locales mentioned in the Compact. That initial constitutional amendment to allow slots at the racetracks in south Florida was a trojan horse to allow full blown expansion of gambling in Florida. Every Legislative session for the next decade is going to contain gambling measures which will result in further expansion.BTW - I laughed when I read the part about money for the public schools. Classic gambling promotion as the cure all for budgetary woes.