Feel sorry for these people?

Well, I don't feel sorry for 'em.

Big surprise there, huh?



"Previous brushes with payment problems, including a bankruptcy, had left her and Michael with less than perfect credit..."

They have already demonstrated problems with managing their(?) money



"..bought their house for $119,000 in April, 2006..."
"...Their first loan was a $97,000 adjustable rate mortgage (ARM) with interest of 8.75 percent, which is fairly expensive. The second mortgage, for $24,290, was a home equity loan at 12.875 percent...."


They borrowed $121,290.00 to buy a $119,000.00 house, so
they financed 100% of the house and apparently the closing
costs as well. Think they learned anything from the previous
credit problems and bankruptcy? Did they learn anything about
interest expense?



Sure, hubby had "health issues" but is back at work.
Where was the emergency savings? And what was the
whole deal with the 401K being unavailable?? I am not
seeing the whole story here. Something is missing.


"Countrywide converted the Stutzmans' ARM into a fixed rate mortgage at 8.75 percent. The second mortgage was entirely forgiven with the debt wiped out."


I don't feel sorry for anyone who has just been given $24,290.00

These people scammed the system and won.

They walked away from a debt of $24,290.00 (and maybe some
accrued interest) in additon to whatever debt they walked away
from in their preceding bankruptcy.

Not to mention the interest that they agreed to pay and then
reneged on.

No sympatchy here, for them or their lenders.

They deserve each other

The lender feels sorry for them.

The lender's shareholders may feel differently.

I think the lender's shareholders are happier w/ them forgiving a $24k debt in the interests of getting paid the balance instead of a $50k+ foreclosure.

Well, I don't feel sorry for 'em.

Big surprise there, huh?



"Previous brushes with payment problems, including a bankruptcy, had left her and Michael with less than perfect credit..."

They have already demonstrated problems with managing their(?) money



"..bought their house for $119,000 in April, 2006..."
"...Their first loan was a $97,000 adjustable rate mortgage (ARM) with interest of 8.75 percent, which is fairly expensive. The second mortgage, for $24,290, was a home equity loan at 12.875 percent...."


They borrowed $121,290.00 to buy a $119,000.00 house, so
they financed 100% of the house and apparently the closing
costs as well. Think they learned anything from the previous
credit problems and bankruptcy? Did they learn anything about
interest expense?



Sure, hubby had "health issues" but is back at work.
Where was the emergency savings? And what was the
whole deal with the 401K being unavailable?? I am not
seeing the whole story here. Something is missing.


"Countrywide converted the Stutzmans' ARM into a fixed rate mortgage at 8.75 percent. The second mortgage was entirely forgiven with the debt wiped out."


I don't feel sorry for anyone who has just been given $24,290.00

These people scammed the system and won.

They walked away from a debt of $24,290.00 (and maybe some
accrued interest) in additon to whatever debt they walked away
from in their preceding bankruptcy.

Not to mention the interest that they agreed to pay and then
reneged on.

No sympatchy here, for them or their lenders.

They deserve each other

Good job to this couple for playing poker with a Multi-Bill. $$ company and winning.

Oh, they came out just fine. I agree with that.

I don't agree that it was a "good job."

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I consider a deal a deal.

I have always lived-up to deals I have made even when it
became apparent that I had royally screwed-up and would
be better off trying to weasel out of it.

The lender tried to screw the borrowers, while the borrowers
ended up screwing the lender.

Is all of that something to be admired?

Or even tolerated?

I would have a whole lot more money if I didn't behave in
such an ethical manner when it comes to money.

I have no sympathy for any of the parties involved in this mess.

Oh, they came out just fine. I agree with that.

I don't agree that it was a "good job."

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I consider a deal a deal.

I have always lived-up to deals I have made even when it
became apparent that I had royally screwed-up and would
be better off trying to weasel out of it.

The lender tried to screw the borrowers, while the borrowers
ended up screwing the lender.

Is all of that something to be admired?

Or even tolerated?

I would have a whole lot more money if I didn't behave in
such an ethical manner when it comes to money.

I have no sympathy for any of the parties involved in this mess.

There are no ethics in business. Ethics are simply terms dictated by the side with more power in a negotiation. Great example are bailouts for large corporations in the name of some public good while screwing individuals who don't have any power. How is it ethical to court borrowers ( ie. credit cards , mortgages, no interest teasers in retail ) when these companies have already calculated default rates , know exactly what percentage will default, and then set up situations where interest rates increase , penalties escalate and in the end make more money for themselves ?


Wow! I'm 'only' 52 yr. old but am shocked that people feel this way today. "There are no ethics in business." Who made that rule? That is despicable. Hey, I am no holy roller but I try to be honest in all things. That's the essense of living in community.

My favorite quote is "man is not a rational animal but a rationizing animal." I thought people learned to quit using that excuse 'well, everyone else is doing it' in high school. But Rancid, for your benefit, you don't do it because it is wrong! Yes, there is right and wrong. Yes, life isn't fair. That doesn't give you the right to cheat. This might be hard to believe, but even if you get taken advantage of by someone it doesn't give you the right to take advantage of them. The easiest answer is to just not do business with them. I got to tell you, I am really blown away by your statement. How do you intereact with your wife/husband? What about your employees/ boss? If you could screw someone financially (or otherwise I guess)and not get caught would you? That doesn't mean that there aren't any morals, just that you have no morals.

It is all about making money not living up to deals. Pure and simple.[/
QUOTE]

Remind me never to do a deal with you. How do your kids view you?

There are no ethics in business. Ethics are simply terms dictated by the side with more power in a negotiation. Great example are bailouts for large corporations in the name of some public good while screwing individuals who don't have any power. How is it ethical to court borrowers ( ie. credit cards , mortgages, no interest teasers in retail ) when these companies have already calculated default rates , know exactly what percentage will default, and then set up situations where interest rates increase , penalties escalate and in the end make more money for themselves ?


Wow! I'm 'only' 52 yr. old but am shocked that people feel this way today. "There are no ethics in business." Who made that rule? That is despicable. Hey, I am no holy roller but I try to be honest in all things. That's the essense of living in community.

My favorite quote is "man is not a rational animal but a rationizing animal." I thought people learned to quit using that excuse 'well, everyone else is doing it' in high school. But Rancid, for your benefit, you don't do it because it is wrong! Yes, there is right and wrong. Yes, life isn't fair. That doesn't give you the right to cheat. This might be hard to believe, but even if you get taken advantage of by someone it doesn't give you the right to take advantage of them. The easiest answer is to just not do business with them. I got to tell you, I am really blown away by your statement. How do you intereact with your wife/husband? What about your employees/ boss? If you could screw someone financially (or otherwise I guess)and not get caught would you? That doesn't mean that there aren't any morals, just that you have no morals.

It is all about making money not living up to deals. Pure and simple.[/
QUOTE]

Remind me never to do a deal with you. How do your kids view you?

You have bought into the ethics farce hook line and sinker. The powers to be want you to feel some sort of ethical guilt when you work the system. I am not talking about illegal dealings but rather unethical. The family in the CNN story above were unethical in taking loans they probably knew they couldn't pay back. They are being lambasted in above posts not for anything illegal but more for unethical business dealings.

Nevermind dealing with me, how do you deal with credit card companies, banks, stock market agents, insurance companies and the like?
By your argument, you simply should avoid these entities because of there lack of ethics. I am sure you just don't business with any of these. Please.

Nevermind dealing with me, how do you deal with credit card companies, banks, stock market agents, insurance companies and the like?
By your argument, you simply should avoid these entities because of there lack of ethics. I am sure you just don't business with any of these. Please.

Yes, it is difficult to find companies/agents who are ethical, often it is the case of choosing the lesser of the evils, but as far as picking and choosing whom you do business with based upon their ethics, I HAVE closed accounts, taken my business elsewhere, and canceled credit cards because I didn't like the way they did business. I don't want my money, my name, or my business connected in any way with "unethical" folks and Scooterbugs and elephants never forget!

My bank doesn't charge me ATM, teller, or any service fees (I don't think I've ever paid them for anything besides new check costs and credit card payments and I've had accounts there since I was in middle school), my credit card through them has no annual fees or hidden costs, they give you the monthly payment after Xmas shopping season as a freebie if you have been good about paying your bill, and they had me put my savings in a higher yield account because they noticed my $ weren't being invested to my best advantage when they were checking something I asked about a CD. Their rates are comparable or better than their competitors.

Guess where I do as much of my business as possible, even though it's in another state! Guess why they keep expanding!

Yes, it is difficult to find companies/agents who are ethical, often it is the case of choosing the lesser of the evils, but as far as picking and choosing whom you do business with based upon their ethics, I HAVE closed accounts, taken my business elsewhere, and canceled credit cards because I didn't like the way they did business. I don't want my money, my name, or my business connected in any way with "unethical" folks and Scooterbugs and elephants never forget!

My bank doesn't charge me ATM, teller, or any service fees (I don't think I've ever paid them for anything besides new check costs and credit card payments and I've had accounts there since I was in middle school), my credit card through them has no annual fees or hidden costs, they give you the monthly payment after Xmas shopping season as a freebie if you have been good about paying your bill, and they had me put my savings in a higher yield account because they noticed my $ weren't being invested to my best advantage when they were checking something I asked about a CD. Their rates are comparable or better than their competitors.

Guess where I do as much of my business as possible, even though it's in another state! Guess why they keep expanding!

How about health insurance ? Do you have any tricks on how to deal with an industry which makes money by restricting benefits to individuals who have paid for them in order to increase profits and enrich stockholders.
This is an especially interesting ethical question b/c one can rightfully argue both sides -- the company is ethically obligated to maximize shareholder profit ...or the company is ethically obligated to provide the best service to individual insurees

How about health insurance ? Do you have any tricks on how to deal with an industry which makes money by restricting benefits to individuals who have paid for them in order to increase profits and enrich stockholders.
This is an especially interesting ethical question b/c one can rightfully argue both sides -- the company is ethically obligated to maximize shareholder profit ...or the company is ethically obligated to provide the best service to individual insurees

How about health insurance ? Do you have any tricks on how to deal with an industry which makes money by restricting benefits to individuals who have paid for them in order to increase profits and enrich stockholders.
This is an especially interesting ethical question b/c one can rightfully argue both sides -- the company is ethically obligated to maximize shareholder profit ...or the company is ethically obligated to provide the best service to individual insurees

hey Rancid, wanna get really fired up?
check out the 2007 Bonus rates that Wall Street
traders are getting off big Oil.......
while we are getting piped at the pump....

hey Rancid, wanna get really fired up?
check out the 2007 Bonus rates that Wall Street
traders are getting off big Oil.......
while we are getting piped at the pump....