Citizens Property Insurance woes

has anyone read the headlines on Citizens Property ins. woes...had them for years...does anyone insure w/them...any experiences w/them...are there other alternatives, etc...Red

Nope, but my State Farm bill just came and again, it has increased. This time it went up only 48%.

SJ, does state farm do your wind, flood and hurricane...the problem w/citizens seems to be not only crooked execs but an unwillingness to pay from all of 2004...Red

SJ, does state farm do your wind, flood and hurricane...the problem w/citizens seems to be not only crooked execs but an unwillingness to pay from all of 2004...Red

Here's a couple links from todays news:

http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2005510200407

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/business/content/business/epaper/2005/10/19/a1d_citizens_1019.html

Red - From what I have been told - Citizens is the insurance of last resort - If no other company will take you Citizens has too. If they can find someone else to cover you - you get moved on to another company. After our Ivan claim (not very large) we got moved to Citizens - about 5 mos later I was given notice that I had been moved to another company. We had about 9000.00 worth of damage from Ivan and if I had to do it over again I think I wouldn't have filed a claim.

I don't think State Farm will insure people who live close to the water (we are about 200 yards and I think they said they don't insure people that close to the water). We have State Farm in Michigan and think they are very good and have responded to our claims quickly when needed. We have citizen's for wind insurance but I thought they were the only company to offer wind insurance and that they are backed by the government. What other companies provide wind/hurricane insurance? Thanks, this is a good year to revisit insurance policies, isn't it?!?!?

I don't think State Farm will insure people who live close to the water (we are about 200 yards and I think they said they don't insure people that close to the water). We have State Farm in Michigan and think they are very good and have responded to our claims quickly when needed. We have citizen's for wind insurance but I thought they were the only company to offer wind insurance and that they are backed by the government. What other companies provide wind/hurricane insurance? Thanks, this is a good year to revisit insurance policies, isn't it?!?!?

Yes our broker in Seagrove told us the same thing that Citizens is the only one that does wind now in Fla since all of the others went belly up since last few Hurricane seasons. So, unless that was bunk, we are stuck with Citizens until they all go to jail and then what?

I don't think State Farm will insure people who live close to the water (we are about 200 yards and I think they said they don't insure people that close to the water). We have State Farm in Michigan and think they are very good and have responded to our claims quickly when needed. We have citizen's for wind insurance but I thought they were the only company to offer wind insurance and that they are backed by the government. What other companies provide wind/hurricane insurance? Thanks, this is a good year to revisit insurance policies, isn't it?!?!?

Right. State Farm won't insure people like me who are close to the water. I know people (one of which is related to me) who have paid a boatload of money for beach-view property but haven't started building because they know they won't be able to get insurance.

Right. State Farm won't insure people like me who are close to the water. I know people (one of which is related to me) who have paid a boatload of money for beach-view property but haven't started building because they know they won't be able to get insurance.

You are correct. State Farm, (Allstate and Nationwide, too - I think) will not insure property located within 2000 feet from the Gulf nor within 500 ft from the Bay. Today, I heard two people who said they have been dropped from their Inusrance company. I am not sure which company they were using.

This is just in the thinking, talking stage, but we are considering not renewing our policy. The lot is worth more than we paid for the house and lot. Anyone else considering that option? We are waiting to see the increase and coverage. We are not gulf front and it seems as tho you would have to be totally blown away before you could collect anything. We don't know, guess we will decide when it comes time to write the check.

This is just in the thinking, talking stage, but we are considering not renewing our policy. The lot is worth more than we paid for the house and lot. Anyone else considering that option? We are waiting to see the increase and coverage. We are not gulf front and it seems as tho you would have to be totally blown away before you could collect anything. We don't know, guess we will decide when it comes time to write the check.

I know a contractor, living on Holiday Isle, who stopped carrying insurance on his home last year for the same reason. I guess it helps, knowing that he can rebuild at cost.

State farm does insure in NY. ( by the bay )
My Basement got flooded ( never had water in it for 8 years ) last week. It was rainning for 8 days straight! I had to rip up the rugs. I didn't call my insurance company because The damage is under 5k. I pay right now 990 a year. I feel that is low and I want it to stay like that.

Now My place down there Just went up 70.00 a month for home owner's Insurance... it's crazy!

I thought Citizen's was backed by the government, so they couldn't default on insurance claims if the claims are valid. Any thoughts on this? Isn't the flood insurance a government backed insurance as well?

State Farm has been great with us in Michigan and we just switched to their auto insurance as well. They covered us with no hassles when we flooded our house once when we left the toilet running upstairs (it was stupid). And they covered some of our roof when we had ice dams that damaged the inside of our house one winter. They were great with us both times.

This is just in the thinking, talking stage, but we are considering not renewing our policy. The lot is worth more than we paid for the house and lot. Anyone else considering that option? We are waiting to see the increase and coverage. We are not gulf front and it seems as tho you would have to be totally blown away before you could collect anything. We don't know, guess we will decide when it comes time to write the check.

We just received notice that we are being cancelled. We have never had a claim in all of this and it just doesn't seem right that they can do this without a justificable reason. My husband and I have sat down and wondered the same thing, would it be more logical to just carry the bare minimum that is needed for our mortgage company. We have seriously thought about not carrying wind insurance and taking our chances because according to the county tax commissioner it's not the home that has increased 300% it's the land.

I was told the same thing about Citizens being the only option on wind insurance, so we have everything else with another carrier and wind w/ Citizens. They also said that since Citizens is the only option, they will raise rates whenever they want, add surcharges, etc. You have got no place to go!!

All that said did not think the insurance was outrageously priced so for me it is still worth it. Now I might not say that in 1-2 years from now.

I was told the same thing about Citizens being the only option on wind insurance, so we have everything else with another carrier and wind w/ Citizens. They also said that since Citizens is the only option, they will raise rates whenever they want, add surcharges, etc. You have got no place to go!!

All that said did not think the insurance was outrageously priced so for me it is still worth it. Now I might not say that in 1-2 years from now.

Would this not be considered a form of price gauging?

You are correct. State Farm, (Allstate and Nationwide, too - I think) will not insure property located within 2000 feet from the Gulf nor within 500 ft from the Bay. Today, I heard two people who said they have been dropped from their Inusrance company. I am not sure which company they were using.

We are with Allstate Floridian, on the Bay. Our HO policy covers windstorm but has non-optional hurricane deductibles. When we lived in Freeport, we could choose a higher premium and have regular deductibles for hurricane damage. Not now.

Just got our renewal declarations, and they will keep us for another year. Premium nearly doubled :roll: . Interestingly, our flood insurance stayed the same.

Would this not be considered a form of price gauging?

Citizens is a mess, and is an example of a screwed-up gov't agency for sure, but I don't think the gauging is avoidable. Florida law requires that Citizens charge the highest rates in the market, thereby guaranteeing that you will find other insurance if you can. In fact, if new companies ever start writing new wind policies, Citizens will happily pass you over to then. But there is no indication that is going to happen anytime soon.

Also, because of last year's storms, Citizens ran a deficit of over $500 million. They have to make that up and balance the budget. So the rates have gone up dramatically and will continue to go up until things equalize. The only way to change this situation is if the insurance commissioner can come up with a way to lure new companies into the state (ha!), stop them from leaving (probably wouldn't hold up in court) or perhaps come up with a catastrophic fund that would cover hurricane losses for everyone in the state. It's all being discussed now.

We bought in Oct. 2003 and checked with State Farm because we have everything else with them - no go. And were told Allstate was the one policies were being passed through to Citizens, so we went through an Allstate Agent but are insured with Citizens. We're between a quarter to half mile from gulf though, so less likely to get dropped. Rates went up 38% overall.

We also thought of the option of dropping them if it got unreasonably high (whatever that is ), because our lot is worth more than we paid for home and lot.

It is good to know that we are not the only owners considering no insurance. It is a different concept and something we would not have considered 3 years ago.

"...I know people (one of which is related to me) who have paid a boatload of money for beach-view property but haven't started building because they know they won't be able to get insurance..."





Just the sort of catalyst that could start the deflation
of the "bubble."

Assuming, of course, one is of the opinion that real property
in South Walton has been experiencing a bubble.

There will always be those with sufficient funds to pay cash
for beachfront, and they will continue to bid-up the prices
for beachfront, regardless of the insurance situation.

But (2) or (3) tiers or more back from the beach the property is, in
my opinion, more vulnerable to price deflation. The "super rich"
want to be "on the beach," not "an easy walk to the public access."

These properties, generally, are bought by those who must utilize
financing. Financing requires insurance. No insurance, no finanacing,
and no sales. No sales leads to decreased demand which leads to
falling prices.

Also, many buyers count on rental income to defray the costs of
owning this property. Increased insurance costs will likely increase
rental rates: at what level do rental rates make vacation alternatives
(cruises, etc.) more financially favorable? At what level does Walton
County price itself out of the reach of it's customers?

I made the mistake of riding one real estate boom too long: long-term
rental property in Branson, MO, in the mid-90's. Literally, 6 months meant
the difference between selling at a nice profit, and not being able to sell
at cost. Guess who "rode" too long?

It is my belief that the strength of the nation's housing
markets in general can be credited primarily to the easing
of credit restrictions, allowing marginal buyers to enter the
market and increase demand for housing. Tightening credit
requirments would almost certainly result in the opposite:
removal of a large segment of the home-buying public would
lessen demand, and lower demand would lead to lower prices.

If what could be termed "marginal buyers" (by South Walton standards: any
where else in the country they would be "top tier" buyers) are removed from
the South Walton market due to insurance considerations, who will replace
them? And can current prices (much less expectations of future appreciation)
be supported without replacing this segment of the buying public?

Sure, everyone wants a "place at the beach," but at what point do
they look at the hurricanes and the insurance and say, "it's just
not worth it?"

I do not own real property in South Walton, and although I would have
considered buying it in the past (if I had the money) I would not buy it
now. Possibly in the future, if prices really do deflate.

Just my opinion.

And I always have one.

Capricious, since its your relative that owns the "real" property down here...maybe their long opinion would have been more relevant...

Capricious, since its your relative that owns the "real" property down here...maybe their long opinion would have been more relevant...

I think C was quoting BR.

I think C was quoting BR.

He was quoting me.

This relative already owned a house south of 30-A, and bought 2 more lots south of 30-A. The plan was to build a spec house on the cheaper lot and build a nicer home on the 2nd-row lot (in a neighborhood that doesn't allow rentals BTW), and then sell the current home. Construction costs are sky high, I don't care if you're beach front or 2nd or 3rd row. Even the super rich don't always buy the best of everything, so they wouldn't necessarily require beach front. If you use that logic, every super rich person would be driving the most expensive car they could find, for example. There are other priorities.

Insurance is also a factor. Although my husband says that they can afford to be self-insured, that is with no insurance and if the house blows away, it blows away and they'll rebuild or sell the lot.

Back to the super rich only wanting to be beach front, as in having the best of everything, the wealthiest person that I know quite well - well enough that he's been in my home on more than one occasion - and who is on the Forbes list of the world's wealthiest people, lives in a modest home, drives an old car, wears frayed ties, and has holes in the bottom of his shoes.

Excuse me if my argument isn't very cogent. I just took a sleeping pill and am dozing off.

We have just received notice from Florida Peninsula Insurance Co. that they are replacing our wind ins. fromCitizens. It goes on to say they have received approval to assume our "wind only"and that this is a "unique opportunity" for us. It also states that our wind premium will be lower than with Citizens. Anyone else receive this information?

We have just received notice from Florida Peninsula Insurance Co. that they are replacing our wind ins. fromCitizens. It goes on to say they have received approval to assume our "wind only"and that this is a "unique opportunity" for us. It also states that our wind premium will be lower than with Citizens. Anyone else receive this information?

Is there a phone number for Florida Peninsula Insurance Co. on the notice? If they are cheaper and not crooked, I would like to look at proactively talking to them.

Thanks,

Wetwilly