New Airport- all it's hyped to be?

Ask JOE...........stock market name for St. Joe............they started it.

Beats me...and I am not sure it will ever be what all the hype says it will be.

When airlines are cutting back service to small communities all over the country, it seems counter-intuitive that anyone would be building an airport.

What we need is a good high speed train service!

It is being built based on perceived needs twenty years in the future. Building a International airport requires mucho cutting of red tape, and if you wait until the needs are present, it is too late to take effective action.

SJOe...you been drinking that JOE kool-aid

SJOe...you been drinking that JOE kool-aid

oops............

It is being built based on perceived needs twenty years in the future. Building a International airport requires mucho cutting of red tape, and if you wait until the needs are present, it is too late to take effective action.

Actually the International part only applies because customs can drive over from the port. Even the new airport will not have commercial International traffic at first.

Actually the International part only applies because customs can drive over from the port. Even the new airport will not have commercial International traffic at first.

Thank you thank you! Somebody remembered my old posts! All "international" means is customs is provided on site. That applies to both freight and passengers.

BTW...I've seen the master plan for the airport. The runways / taxiways are not being build to handle anything beyond the loaded weight of a 757. The airport, itself, it designed around the operational capabilities of jets in the MD88 / Airbus A320 range.

It is being built based on perceived needs twenty years in the future. Building a International airport requires mucho cutting of red tape, and if you wait until the needs are present, it is too late to take effective action.

I moved here from the NYC metro 11 years ago thinking that with the further development of the internet, jobs would be more portable. With that in mind who wouldn't want to be in paradise if they had a choice. There were good migration inflow numbers and, looking at the rest of Florida's coastal population expansion it seemed logical there would be continued growth.

I just don't think we'll see the pop that sooooo many realtors continue to talk about.

Anybody know why LUK dropped the $75,000,000 or so buying the old PC Airport in this down market?

Thank you thank you! Somebody remembered my old posts! All "international" means is customs is provided on site. That applies to both freight and passengers.

BTW...I've seen the master plan for the airport. The runways / taxiways are not being build to handle anything beyond the loaded weight of a 757. The airport, itself, it designed around the operational capabilities of jets in the MD88 / Airbus A320 range.

Actually I knew this before your posts, but I'll give you that one for being the first post.

The new airport is being designed so that, IF, down the road the need arises they can offer space to customs. However, the first flight won't be a red eye from Tokyo.

I moved here from the NYC metro 11 years ago thinking that with the further development of the internet, jobs would be more portable. With that in mind who wouldn't want to be in paradise if they had a choice. There were good migration inflow numbers and, looking at the rest of Florida's coastal population expansion it seemed logical there would be continued growth.

I just don't think we'll see the pop that sooooo many realtors continue to talk about.

Anybody know why LUK dropped the $75,000,000 or so buying the old PC Airport in this down market?

I think that they got a really good deal on some prime real estate. I realize they have plans they have laid out, but nothing is stopping them from transfering it to a shell that does something else. I'm sure it'll have high rise condo's on the bay with a large marina and the rest will be single home lots and smaller condos with commercial by 390. In addition they'll get a really nice check from the state when 390 is 6 laned for right of way and easements.

I'm not drinking any Kool-Aide. I'm just telling you the reasons why it is being built. International or not, there is much red tape involved in planning and development for an airport. St Joe has been working on this project for at least 15 years, from what I understand. There is much more than the physical airport which is considered. The road systems to get people to the airport are fairly complex political beasts, and that has been in the works for a while. Believe what you want about the trend of the aging population. It doesn't take a rocket scientists to see the trends. Same thing can be said about the majority of the US population moving towards our coastal borders.

I'm not sure when the last time that any of you have visited Panama City. I drove over last week, and the traffic on the Hathaway Bridge was thick as molasses. It is like that every day. The restaurants in PC are filled every night of the week. They don't even have tourists in PC. PCB is also growing, whether or not you choose to see it. Numbers show that PCB area is the second most traveled to destination in FL other than Disney World. That area will need systems in place to support the people moving to the surrounding area. Want to attract major corporations? You better have a good airport. An airport is just one of the many systems needed to attract people, jobs, and business. -ie- tax revenue.

Hmmm. I think the problem here is future vision. A new airport is based on a vision of essentially more of the same. That is to say, a growth model based on abundant and relatively affordable fossil fuels. I personally reject that as a sustainable vision. We need to be looking at more efficient ways of moving people and stuff. Trains would be a good start. Warren Buffet thinks so, too.

Beats me...and I am not sure it will ever be what all the hype says it will be.

When airlines are cutting back service to small communities all over the country, it seems counter-intuitive that anyone would be building an airport.

What we need is a good high speed train service!

I thought I heard talks of a train from Tampa. What ever happened to the idea?

Not sure what the current status is, but years ago I was involved in the rail service from Tampa to Miami--it worked for awhile, but soon the ridership fell off. As with Amtrak, the routes/times/schedules were not convenient, and as long as the price of gas was low; people chose to drive.

It is also true that the concrete/asphalt lobby in this state has historically stood in the way of alternative transportation.

Cong. Allen Boyd is working hard to get the East West Amtrak service restored across Florida. It was stopped after Katrina when the tracks were destroyed.

I agree with Not Dead Yet, we need to have a different vision than more of the same...

It's not an airport, it's an 'aerotropolis':

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/airport_9541___article.html/kasarda_aerotropolis.html

This is starting to sound more and more like the Springfield monorail project.

Is it going to be an improvement over the previous airport? Yes. But I think a lot of people are being sold a very faulty bill of goods over the project. What you're going to get is a nice modern facility that, if you're lucky, will have comprable numbers and flight options as Pensacola in the first 5-7 years of operations. Which is actually pretty generous when it comes to expected flight growth, something like tripling current numbers. More realistic growth during that time frame would be getting up to VPS numbers.

Now that they have elliminated 1300 acres of CO2 absorbing, aquifer purifying forest, how do they plan on making up for it?

Progress, or a step backward?

So how does one accurately predict future (twenty years out) fuel prices, to know whether a long range plan will work?

I think this is representitive of Panama City in general. The city has rarely shown a concern for careful use of resources, quality of living, etc.. My take is this is "too much, too soon". Heck they should make that the city's motto.

Now that they have elliminated 1300 acres of CO2 absorbing, aquifer purifying forest, how do they plan on making up for it?

That's just the beginning....the "aerotropolis" :roll: concept is to make the airport a central hub of a "destination," stretching out up to 20 miles:

i have been as negative on housing as anyone on this board with the exception of Shelly...but JOE has done extensive studies on what happened to communites such as Tampa and Irvine CA when large capacity airport facilities became available. yes we are in a prolonged housing slump right now...20 yrs from now PCB airport will be plenty utilized with tons of capacity and i would not be suprised with numerous international passenger flights. this will happen...construction costs will never be cheaper, it made sense to get the airport online now...especially with all the red tape involved like JOe said.

As to LUK's purchase of the old aiport...i have their basis at a about $2/SF...many are not aware of LUK but their track record on being able to take advantage of cheap assets has been nothing short of spectacular. The old airport land is an extremely attractive tract with a ton of access to the bay...i bet over time they will do ok.

I didn't used to believe this but I think gambling will eventually make its way to PCB.

I would rather Florida "benefit" from gambling than offshore drilling, any day!

It only makes sense that Florida would allow gambling. The State already allows Sunday morning liquor sales, and it is legal to shoot someone entering your property if you feel threatened by them. Gambling has to be next. (that said, the Indians get to keep their casinos until the FL Supreme Court rules on the case with the Indians giving $50 million to Charlie Christ (the State) in return for opening the doors.)

It only makes sense that Florida would allow gambling. The State already allows Sunday morning liquor sales, and it is legal to shoot someone entering your property if you feel threatened by them. Gambling has to be next. (that said, the Indians get to keep their casinos until the FL Supreme Court rules on the case with the Indians giving $50 million to Charlie Christ (the State) in return for opening the doors.)

Better Powerball than tar balls (check)

Better craps and blackjack than black crap (coming soon ?)

The only issue I can see with the new airport at this stage is Phoenix Construction. They have continuously bent Bay county over and had it's way with them. They are currently slated to build the runway and I would take any bet that the runway will have major problems in a matter of 2-3 years. Then the county will hire phoenix to come back and fix their mistake at the taxpayers expense. Does the name of this company start to make sense?

The only issue I can see with the new airport at this stage is Phoenix Construction. They have continuously bent Bay county over and had it's way with them. They are currently slated to build the runway and I would take any bet that the runway will have major problems in a matter of 2-3 years. Then the county will hire phoenix to come back and fix their mistake at the taxpayers expense. Does the name of this company start to make sense?

You talking about this story?

Contractor to Airport Authority: 'I'm going to file a claim on your (expletive)'


PANAMA CITY - James Finch cajoled, begged and then threatened Airport Authority members on Tuesday and ultimately got what he wanted.

"I'm going to file a claim on your ass," Finch told the authority members during a special meeting to discuss runway construction materials and length. Finch's Lynn Haven based company, Phoenix Construction, is doing the first phase of work on Bay County's new $330 million airport in West Bay and is ready to proceed with the impervious stuff.

Vice Chairman Bill Cramer was quick to respond.

"What part of our anatomy are you going to file
a claim on?"

I.ramer asked. He called on Randy Curtis, executive director of the airport, to do something about the level of decorum in the room and asked airport attorney Franidin Harrison if Finch had any legal grounds for a claim on their posteriors.

Finch apologized for the language but persisted in his mission.

"Why won't y'all let me do my job?" Finch replied. "All I want to do up there is to do my job."

Finch said he did not want to wait three more weeks for the Airport Authority to choose between asphalt and concrete runways. The delay, he said, would cost him and his contractors millions because the price of gas and materials continue to rise.

Cramer said he wanted the authority to wait until bids for the terminal building, the rental car center, the air traffic control tower and other projects at the new airport come in Aug. 8. At that time, the airport would have a better understanding of its financial situation.

Finch said he had worked quickly and brought the project several weeks ahead of schedule at the request of certain airport officials. Now, if he did not get a green light, he would have employees and equipment on site with nothing to do.

It does not matter what certain board members told Finch in private, Cramer said, only what the board decides at public meetings.

"Maybe you should go through the proper channels," Cramer said. "No single member of this board has the authority to bind this board."

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/airport_9517___article.html/finch_cramer.html