Is Your Condo Blacklisted By Lenders?

Beach Fanatic

Oct 2, '08 · 8:41 PM9,9991

Also termed nonwarrantable, there are a variety of reasons why a building would be branded as ineligible for lending. Most factors reflect criteria set by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but some are based on lenders? internal risk-based criteria.

Loans that meet the standards of Fannie Mae [Federal National Mortgage Association] and Freddie Mac [Federal Home Mortgage Corp.] are eligible to be sold in the secondary market to the two government-sponsored but privately owned mortgage finance giants. For that reason, lenders have always found it safer to issue loans in projects that are eligible to be sold to those companies.

A building may be deemed ?nonwarrantable? if a large number of its condo units are owned by investors. About 70 percent of the building must be owner-occupied for it to be considered suitable to be sold to Fannie or Freddie.

The number of pre-sales, litigation involving developers, condo boards, vendors or unit owners; condo association financial problems and many other factors are also used to measure the risk.

If your condo building is blacklisted, you may not even know it. :bang:

TheCompleteSheep is in hand with several of these eligible/ineligble lists, and particularly properties on those lists, but ewe is not a squealer. ;-)

Replies

Banned

Oct 2, '08 · 8:59 PM#2

You might be teaching me something. I will pay homage if you will tell me enough for me to verify the existence;-). I don't need the lists, just a little more data. Please.

Edited Oct 2, '08 · 9:00 PM

Beach FanaticAuthor

Oct 2, '08 · 9:04 PM#3

You might be teaching me something. I will be homage if you will tell me enough for me to verify the existence;-). I don't need the lists, just a little more data. Please.

The lists are maintined by bank lenders and passed amongst themselves through their banky-wanky professional associations. They are also maintained by mortgagee and private equity publications and national insurors.

Lists from Citi, WAMU-JPMorgan, others.

Now, assume the homage position. :rolling:

SoWal Insider

Oct 2, '08 · 10:53 PM#4

Why don't you two get a room.

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Beach Fanatic

Oct 3, '08 · 7:14 AM#5

This is nothing new. A friend of ours ran into the same problem in late 2000 when she was buying a place on Okaloosa Island in a building that was mostly long term rental.

As for finding out whether a building is on the blacklist, you can get some idea by pulling up property tax records on the address from the county tax assessor's office web site and seeing what percentage of the building has filed for homestead exemption.

Banned

Oct 3, '08 · 7:19 AM#6

This is nothing new. A friend of ours ran into the same problem in late 2000 when she was buying a place on Okaloosa Island in a building that was mostly long term rental.

As for finding out whether a building is on the blacklist, you can get some idea by pulling up property tax records on the address from the county tax assessor's office web site and seeing what percentage of the building has filed for homestead exemption.

What's the exact ratio of homesteaded properties required to black list a condo?

Banned

Oct 3, '08 · 7:34 AM#7

The lists are maintined by bank lenders and passed amongst themselves through their banky-wanky professional associations. They are also maintained by mortgagee and private equity publications and national insurors.

Lists from Citi, WAMU-JPMorgan, others.

Now, assume the homage position.

Good info. I'm in the business 80 hours per week and this is the first time I have been able to verify such lists. There was a wealth of info when I searched non-permissable and variations.

It sounds anti-competitive to me to generate a black list without regard to a loan to value evaluation on a case by case basis. There will be lawsuits generated via Strategic Foreclosure case theories and Quantum Meruit to be sure.

Thanks

Banned

Oct 3, '08 · 7:35 AM#8

Why don't you two get a room.

.

That's quick wit.

Beach FanaticAuthor

Oct 3, '08 · 8:34 AM#9

This is nothing new. A friend of ours ran into the same problem in late 2000 when she was buying a place on Okaloosa Island in a building that was mostly long term rental.

Quite old, actually.

As for finding out whether a building is on the blacklist, you can get some idea by pulling up property tax records on the address from the county tax assessor's office web site and seeing what percentage of the building has filed for homestead exemption.

Stretching relevancies? :idontno:

Beach FanaticAuthor

Oct 3, '08 · 8:37 AM#10

Originally Posted by SHELLY

Why don't you two get a room.

That's quick wit.

Ms. Shelly must feel left out being behind the yellow tape hardhatless yelling instructions to the carpenters.

Beach FanaticAuthor

Oct 3, '08 · 8:49 AM#11

Good info. I'm in the business 80 hours per week and this is the first time I have been able to verify such lists. There was a wealth of info when I searched non-permissable and variations.

It sounds anti-competitive to me to generate a black list without regard to a loan to value evaluation on a case by case basis. There will be lawsuits generated via Strategic Foreclosure case theories and Quantum Merit to be sure. Thanks

Many lenders will either deny or disregard any mention of such lists. The ones that I have been so fortuitously forwarded are PDF's that are 1,000s of pages long.......each. There are very well known entries in the unwarrantables/ineligbles...e.g. the Brickell's Vue, Jade and their sister tower Mark.
:lolabove:

http://tinyurl.com/3zjz8n

SoWal Insider

Oct 3, '08 · 11:49 AM#12

Ms. Shelly must feel left out being behind the yellow tape hardhatless yelling instructions to the carpenters.

The housing bubble websites have been babbling about this for some time--the fact that there's a mortgage blacklist for Florida condos is old news:
http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2008/02/11/daily22.html
http://housingpanic.blogspot.com/2008/02/have-you-heard-about-super-secret-miami.html

.

Edited Oct 3, '08 · 12:03 PM

Banned

Oct 3, '08 · 2:04 PM#13

The housing bubble websites have been babbling about this for some time--the fact that there's a mortgage blacklist for Florida condos is old news:
http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2008/02/11/daily22.html
http://housingpanic.blogspot.com/2008/02/have-you-heard-about-super-secret-miami.html

.

I don't mind a blacklist a bit. I just don't think it's American to not publish them or save them for insiders.

Beach FanaticAuthor

Oct 3, '08 · 2:04 PM#14

The housing bubble websites have been babbling about this for some time--the fact that there's a mortgage blacklist for Florida condos is old news:
http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2008/02/11/daily22.html
http://housingpanic.blogspot.com/2008/02/have-you-heard-about-super-secret-miami.html.

As I said, the news is old (Feb 08?), let's say aged, shelly we?

having the lists, now that is the trick. For within the lists lists lists of goodies

Why they are unwarrantable
Who determined they were
When they became so
Who is under scrutiny (to become unwarrantable)
Who has been released from unwarrantablenessness :blink:

What lending levels are acceptable (for those semi-warrantable)
What types and/or floorplans within a building are unwarrantable
Projects per state, by % of all projects, total numbers of projects
If DME is required, ATIS # and...

:yikes:

Sorry, that was an airport ILS report.

My bad.

Back to the thread at hoof....

SoWal Insider

Oct 3, '08 · 2:35 PM#15

I don't mind a blacklist a bit. I just don't think it's American to not publish them or save them for insiders.

Let me help you out...buying Florida condos sucks as an investment.

There.

.

Beach FanaticAuthor

Oct 3, '08 · 3:11 PM#16

Let me help you out...buying Florida condos sucks as an investment.

There.

.

Perhaps in SoWal but I can attest that the condominium market, which is often localized by position on a street, much less by an entire state, can be a cool beans, Madame.

Beach Fanatic

Oct 3, '08 · 4:26 PM#17

Let me help you out...buying Florida condos sucks as an investment.

There.

.

Depends at what price you're buying them Shelly Buffet. ;-)

SoWal Insider

Oct 3, '08 · 4:49 PM#18

Depends at what price you're buying them Shelly Buffet. ;-)

I give you that...but we're nowhere near that yet. As long as sellers are married to these "in your dreams" asking prices; taxes, insurance and HOA fees continue to rise; and the recession chugs its way through the economy, it looks to be quite a while until the tide turns.

People who are interested and who have pristine credit and cash in the bank can sit comfortably on the fence. It's not a buyer's market until the buyer says it is.

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Beach Fanatic

Oct 3, '08 · 5:41 PM#19

I have buyers starting to say it is to be honest with you. Most are beating the banks over the head on their foreclosures though.

SoWal Insider

Oct 3, '08 · 10:26 PM#20

I have buyers starting to say it is to be honest with you. Most are beating the banks over the head on their foreclosures though.

So it's a "Foreclosure-Buyers-If-They-Can-Beat-The-Bank's-Price-Down-To-What-They're-Willing-To-Pay-Market" I wonder how the NAR will work that little gem into their next Rah-Rah Real Estate Media Blitz.

Seriously, Josh--I'm glad you're able to be making some coin these days.

.

Edited Oct 3, '08 · 10:29 PM

SoWal Insider

Oct 3, '08 · 10:47 PM#21

These lists are nothing new and not illegal. Fannie and Freddie have always maintained a list of warrantable condos. You can access it via their web sites and if you are seeking a mortgage, any Bank or Lender will give you this info immediately since if they can't buy the mortgage according to the Borrowers request, it's a total waste of time. There are also Lenders willing to offer loans on unwarrantable condos, but there will be a fee in price, rate or both. Either way, If you're paying cash or mortgaging, it's always a good idea to ask for a questionnaire to be completed by the Assoc. Manager. This questionnaire would ask many of the questions listed above and you would want to also know about reserves, occupancy, how many units are delinquent in assessments, is there any pending litigation......etc. The property could be listed as warrantable and then change in this environment, so I always checked in advance about a condo before relegating my clients to going through a tedious process, then having to bail.

Here's an updated list as of 10/03 from Suntrust. (It's Fannie's list with Suntrust's name on it)
Here is info about warrantable condos according to Fannie Maes guidelines.

Beach FanaticAuthor

Oct 4, '08 · 2:16 AM#22

Here's an updated list as of 10/03 from Suntrust. (It's Fannie's list with Suntrust's name on it)

I have Suntrust's list. This one you posted is 9 pgs long for approved condos nationwide. Mine is 1722 pages long (inc the 9.5% of unwarrantable).

Rarely will the institution reveal that a certain project is unwarrantable to the Borrower upfront. Many mortgage apps are taken online or at the branch level. They have no clue in the latter, no interest in the former. As you stated, the blacklisting is dynamic, Lenders cannot push down this data quickly enough or expect that customer service level personnel can keep up with this logjam of ever-changing data.
Then there are the nonrefundable app fees. :yikes:

You're point, as was Ms. Selly's, revolves around "known" information. Mine assures that very little is known and that the financial institutions involved are well pleased to have you believe ewe R in the know.

Beach Fanatic

Oct 4, '08 · 4:17 PM#23

I have Suntrust's list. This one you posted is 9 pgs long for approved condos nationwide. Mine is 1722 pages long (inc the 9.5% of unwarrantable).

Rarely will the institution reveal that a certain project is unwarrantable to the Borrower upfront. Many mortgage apps are taken online or at the branch level. They have no clue in the latter, no interest in the former. As you stated, the blacklisting is dynamic, Lenders cannot push down this data quickly enough or expect that customer service level personnel can keep up with this logjam of ever-changing data.
Then there are the nonrefundable app fees.

You're point, as was Ms. Selly's, revolves around "known" information. Mine assures that very little is known and that the financial institutions involved are well pleased to have you believe ewe R in the know.

Are you suggesting that Suntrust is "pulling the wool over your eyes" (like that one don't ya? :lol:

) since ewe believe you are in the know? Or do you mean Mango's eyes and Ms. SHELLY's? Sometimes the gibberish is entertaining and possibly illumminating and sometimes it is just gibberish, which is this?

SoWal Insider

Oct 4, '08 · 4:33 PM#24

You're point, as was Ms. Selly's, revolves around "known" information. Mine assures that very little is known and that the financial institutions involved are well pleased to have you believe ewe R in the know.

...what I DO KNOW is that there are still baaaad people out there who are looking for clueless sheeple to shear for their own personal gain. If one is stupid enough to let themselves get fleeced and is led to the slaughter by shysters who pull the wool over their eyes, they deserve to have their financial life flocked up.

.

Edited Oct 4, '08 · 4:35 PM

Beach FanaticAuthor

Oct 4, '08 · 4:45 PM#25

...what I DO KNOW is that there are still baaaad people out there who are looking for clueless sheeple to shear for their own personal gain. If one is stupid enough to let themselves get fleeced and is led to the slaughter by shysters who pull the wool over their eyes, they deserve to have their financial life flocked up.

"Deserve" is a cruel shoe, Ms. Shelly. :cry:

SoWal Insider

Oct 4, '08 · 5:50 PM#26

"Deserve" is a cruel shoe, Ms. Shelly.

:roll: Oh please...with all the red flags that are flying warning of the greed, fraud and corruption that has been (and continues to be) going on in Real Estate "investment"...if they don't get it by now, then yes--they pretty much deserve to be taken to the cleaners--culling the herd, you might say.

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