Build vs Buy?

Maybe someone can help me with this? I always hear that the price of square footage can increase by the type of appliances, granite, door, and tile you get. How about the cost excluding the above, what is the cost to frame, put a roof, sheetrock, electrical, plumbing...etc a home. I thought that this would be the most costly part.

I would like that answer as well. Discount me and my firm from the equation as abberations with no basis in real life if it pleases your cause. Let's hear from a reputable builder who has charged $240 per square foot for construction.

This all gave me an idea for my new avatar - my dirty spray boots - some Benjamin Moore, a little Shewrwin Williams, ML Cambell, woodglue, etc. - ha!

Anyway, I would like to hear from MissSunshine, if she hasn't given up on us yet -

What style or grade of house are you considering, if you build? I would think up graded or semi-luxury with lots in your price range, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe just tell us the appointments that are important to you.

This info would narrow things down a bit. Use this list, for example -

A)- Vinyl/Hardie Plank siding, shingle/metal roof, tile/carpet/laminate wood flooring, vinyl windows, laminate/granite countertops, hollowcore doors, off the shelf fixtures(think Home Depot), Sears appliances. Basically a "get a normal home in Sowal" house, save money.

B)- Hardie Plank/wood siding, metal roof, hardwood/upgrade tile/stone flooring, higrade vinyl/aluminum clad windows, granite countertops, solid wood doors, higrade fixtures, Viking/Jenn Aire appliances, woodwork in most rooms (crown molding, wainscot, custom staircase, etc.). Think Watercolor, Watersound, Seaside, etc.

C)- Stucco/wood over concrete block/ICF structure, tile roof, marble flooring and countertops, wood windows, highest grade appointments, extensive woodwork, secret doors, wine cellar, butler's quarters, spend as much per square foot as possible house.

I think as far as hurricane safety, they should all be built the same with the exception of structure and roof style.


I'm not saying every house fits into bracket A, B, or C - just wanting an idea so you don't get misled.

Is there anybody out there? - Pink Floyd

Maybe someone can help me with this? I always hear that the price of square footage can increase by the type of appliances, granite, door, and tile you get. How about the cost excluding the above, what is the cost to frame, put a roof, sheetrock, electrical, plumbing...etc a home. I thought that this would be the most costly part.

Attention highly skilled builders with excellent reputations from Seaside, Watercolor, Watersound and Rosemary Beach: Please step up to the mic. and help us with a straight talk answer. Please support your own construction costs to Dunebug's simple question.

Hi everyone...I post here on occasion and wanted to join in.

My husband is a former Walton County Building Inspector....he left several years ago as the pay wasn't supporting our family. He passed his contractor's exam in 2005 and can build residential (he prefers custom homes) as well as some commercial...he hasn't done this yet though as we have had many health related obstacles with his mother, our son and myself as well as the market collapse at the same time. His license is inactive at the present time due to not having something to build to purchase the insurance for...a requirement in activating the license.

I can't speak for him. but he is here if anyone would like to talk to him. He knows this area well as his father did some of the very first constructions along the beach starting around 35 years ago.

He has always built under someone else's license as their superintendent, etc., but is very familiar with the beach area. As a matter of fact he was in charge of the first pool at Rosemary Beach as well as a number of houses there. You would have to talk to him about the others he has done as I just can't recall them all.

His name is Greg Hallman and can be reached at 850-835-4485.

What builders do you know from this area who build quality homes at efficient pricing? Can you give the Thread Author, Miss Sunshine, and the rest of us some examples of quality homes at good prices? Thanks

How about this:

Talk to some prospective builders about the quality of their work and then ask to see it. Hopefully they might have a few projects in various stages. Although the average person might not see certain things it has always seemed fairly obvious to me the quality.

Initial framing:
If I see misfired nails sticking out of joints, split wood, or repeatedly drawn guidelines with no obvious signs of a reason to keep changing measurements then it raises red flags.

Windows and doors:
During the initial install the doors and windows should work flawlessly. If there is any sticking or problems operating hardware this isn't quality installation. If a door has to be pushed to latch or seems to scrub anywhere I would be leary. If you're building along the coast then the doors and windows are most likely hurricane resistant and get tested before they arrive at the job site. Bad installation or bad framing will reflect in poor operation very quickly.

Sheetrock:
If finished and awaiting paint then it should be smooth no signs of the tape no bubbles or holes in the mud. Speaking of mud it shouldn't be all over the floor. It seems that if your slopping mud all over the floor your flying thru a job and not paying attention. I'm not saying accidents don't happen, but if this is consistently thru out the house you might just have a novice or apprentice. You're also paying for that waste.

Finishes:
Paint - Stand against the wall and look down it. The paint should be uniform with no visible blemishes of any kind. This is new construction, older homes will show some sort of blemish from patching, moisture, etc.
Wall Paper - It should be difficult if not impossible to find a seam.
Tile - If it's glass tile, can you see any bubbles or pockets behind the tiles? Is the grout unform through out? The grout should be a straight line and uniform thickness. If floor tiles are involved they should be level all the way across (keep in mind that a textured tile is a little harder to tell). Same grout standards. Also is the grout mis-colored or different colors? This means it wasn't mixed properly or long enough and will definitely give you problems down the road.

These are just the things I look for when a house is to this stage of construction. One of these being off could be the sign of a shoddy sub contractor, but more than one and the blame is squarely on the general contractor.

Again, it is amazing to me that people will literally choose a contractor based entirely on a bid. You should actually meet with, talk to, and investigate a general contractor. Afterall if it is a primary residence you will be entrusting the end product to you and your family's lives.

SWBG,

Excellent post and great information.

After working with builders on two different custom homes, the key to the process is communication. When you meet with builders, determine if he/she is a good listener and communicator. "I thought you said brown moulding"...

Another good technical question to ask a prospective builder is how do you flash windows? Here in Atlanta, not many builders do this correctly.

BTW, do any builders in SoWal use framing crews that still hand hammer nails or has the entire free world gone to nail guns?

SWBG,

Excellent post and great information.

After working with builders on two different custom homes, the key to the process is communication. When you meet with builders, determine if he/she is a good listener and communicator. "I thought you said brown moulding"...

Another good technical question to ask a prospective builder is how do you flash windows? Here in Atlanta, not many builders do this correctly.

BTW, do any builders in SoWal use framing crews that still hand hammer nails or has the entire free world gone to nail guns?

A lot of Engineers designing homes to meet internal pressures or just general Coastal Construction Zone want to see nail petterns of 4" o.c. in the field and 2" o.c. at the perimeter. This really does necessitate gun nails.

On the flash windows question it would be ideal if the Architect would specify a flashing detail. There are as many details as there are window companies. I virtually guarantee you that you cannot always use the same waterproofing detail for windows and doors. When you have a masonry home in Rosemary Beach where the windows are installed depressed within the opening there are a number of waterproofing details and not many good ones allow conventional flashing. Any builder who has built 50 homes in this area will tell you that most plans either do not include a flashing detail or, if they do the flashing detail, window style and trim details do not match one another.

Then you get an elevation view that does not match the typical sections. You can check with Pella Windows and ask them if their factory installers ever have to come back for leaks and they will tell you yes. It happens. In the absence of specifications builders usually use their experience derived from call backs to make field decisions.

How about this:

Talk to some prospective builders about the quality of their work and then ask to see it. Hopefully they might have a few projects in various stages. Although the average person might not see certain things it has always seemed fairly obvious to me the quality.

Initial framing:
If I see misfired nails sticking out of joints, split wood, or repeatedly drawn guidelines with no obvious signs of a reason to keep changing measurements then it raises red flags.

Windows and doors:
During the initial install the doors and windows should work flawlessly. If there is any sticking or problems operating hardware this isn't quality installation. If a door has to be pushed to latch or seems to scrub anywhere I would be leary. If you're building along the coast then the doors and windows are most likely hurricane resistant and get tested before they arrive at the job site. Bad installation or bad framing will reflect in poor operation very quickly.

Sheetrock:
If finished and awaiting paint then it should be smooth no signs of the tape no bubbles or holes in the mud. Speaking of mud it shouldn't be all over the floor. It seems that if your slopping mud all over the floor your flying thru a job and not paying attention. I'm not saying accidents don't happen, but if this is consistently thru out the house you might just have a novice or apprentice. You're also paying for that waste.

Finishes:
Paint - Stand against the wall and look down it. The paint should be uniform with no visible blemishes of any kind. This is new construction, older homes will show some sort of blemish from patching, moisture, etc.
Wall Paper - It should be difficult if not impossible to find a seam.
Tile - If it's glass tile, can you see any bubbles or pockets behind the tiles? Is the grout unform through out? The grout should be a straight line and uniform thickness. If floor tiles are involved they should be level all the way across (keep in mind that a textured tile is a little harder to tell). Same grout standards. Also is the grout mis-colored or different colors? This means it wasn't mixed properly or long enough and will definitely give you problems down the road.

These are just the things I look for when a house is to this stage of construction. One of these being off could be the sign of a shoddy sub contractor, but more than one and the blame is squarely on the general contractor.

Again, it is amazing to me that people will literally choose a contractor based entirely on a bid. You should actually meet with, talk to, and investigate a general contractor. Afterall if it is a primary residence you will be entrusting the end product to you and your family's lives.

So you've been here for a while and I'm sure you know some great builders by now. Who do you recommend that performs like you like?

Usually if there is something that looks "weird" it is something that wasn't done properly.

I also look at the not so visible stuff - peek into a utility closet, under the kitchen sink, in the garage, and under the house and you'll REALLY see how high of quality their work is. It's like looking under the bed to see how well someone vacuums.

I am not recommending certain builders on this thread, because I don't want to open the can of worms about why I DON'T recommend other builders.

So you've been here for a while and I'm sure you know some great builders by now. Who do you recommend that performs like you like?

IF I had the money to build right now it would be a very difficult choice between Davis Dunn and Gage Construction. Now that I've said the magic words the loonies will come out of the wood work.

Usually if there is something that looks "weird" it is something that wasn't done properly.

I also look at the not so visible stuff - peek into a utility closet, under the kitchen sink, in the garage, and under the house and you'll REALLY see how high of quality their work is. It's like looking under the bed to see how well someone vacuums.

I am not recommending certain builders on this thread, because I don't want to open the can of worms about why I DON'T recommend other builders.

Some people would definately say that hay bale construction looks weird. I can't imagine how it would open a can of worms to say you know a good builder.

Well done hay bale construction doesn't look weird.

IF I had the money to build right now it would be a very difficult choice between Davis Dunn and Gage Construction. Now that I've said the magic words the loonies will come out of the wood work.

When I moved here in 1997 the very first house I worked on was a brand new Davis and Dunn home two doors to the East of "1 Seagrove" Bill Smith from Pelican Realty hired me to do the punch out on the new home to prepare it for a closing. I did quite a bit of different work there and learned a bunch about gulf front building practices.

I know both Whitney and Will and I'd bet they would tell you that their homebuilding has improved quite a bit somewhere between house number 1 and house number 150. I am building a home side by side with them today and I for one think they do a good job. I think they get paid very well for their work and have some very close relationships with local Architects.

Well done hay bale construction doesn't look weird.

You are clearly correct.

Sheetrock:
If finished and awaiting paint then it should be smooth no signs of the tape no bubbles or holes in the mud. Speaking of mud it shouldn't be all over the floor. It seems that if your slopping mud all over the floor your flying thru a job and not paying attention. I'm not saying accidents don't happen, but if this is consistently thru out the house you might just have a novice or apprentice. You're also paying for that waste.


This is ridiculous. I want to see you roll mud on ceilings and stamp it out and not drop that thick mud all over the floor. You dont have a damn clue so quit acting like you do.

Sheetrock:
If finished and awaiting paint then it should be smooth no signs of the tape no bubbles or holes in the mud. Speaking of mud it shouldn't be all over the floor. It seems that if your slopping mud all over the floor your flying thru a job and not paying attention. I'm not saying accidents don't happen, but if this is consistently thru out the house you might just have a novice or apprentice. You're also paying for that waste.


This is ridiculous. I want to see you roll mud on ceilings and stamp it out and not drop that thick mud all over the floor. You dont have a damn clue so quit acting like you do.

That was quite rough... SWGB may not have ever run a Bazooka, Banjo or 10" box but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a damn clue.

I do know that I'd rather see my guys running 12 foot lids with stilts, boxing their flats and busting their buttjoints than picking up contaminated mud off the floor. But that's just me. I'm still learning.

SWBG,

Excellent post and great information.

After working with builders on two different custom homes, the key to the process is communication. When you meet with builders, determine if he/she is a good listener and communicator. "I thought you said brown moulding"...

Another good technical question to ask a prospective builder is how do you flash windows? Here in Atlanta, not many builders do this correctly.

BTW, do any builders in SoWal use framing crews that still hand hammer nails or has the entire free world gone to nail guns?

I've heard the argument that gun nails are better because they don't split the wood like hand driven nails - maybe the speed they go in along with the coating? Sounds feasible. Don't know. Could also be a smaller diameter?

The problem with nailguns (users) is that the shot doesn't always pull the framing members together and the wall is raised all loose. I usually walk the tops of the walls with a small sledge and knock it all tight before sheeting to cure this. A tight box stays together better during wind force in my opinion.

[/b]I've heard the argument that gun nails are better because they don't split the wood like hand driven nails - maybe the speed they go in along with the coating? Sounds feasible. Don't know. Could also be a smaller diameter?

The problem with nailguns (users) is that the shot doesn't always pull the framing members together and the wall is raised all loose. I usually walk the tops of the walls with a small sledge and knock it all tight before sheeting to cure this. A tight box stays together better during wind force in my opinion.

I was following you until you got to sheeting. I don't know that term yet. What's sheeting and why do you use it?

I was following you until you got to sheeting. I don't know that term yet. What's sheeting and why do you use it?

Sheeting? Sheating? Did I misspell it?

I mean the plywood on the walls. Yankee term, I guess. ( I'm an ex-yankee)

Sheetrock:
If finished and awaiting paint then it should be smooth no signs of the tape no bubbles or holes in the mud. Speaking of mud it shouldn't be all over the floor. It seems that if your slopping mud all over the floor your flying thru a job and not paying attention. I'm not saying accidents don't happen, but if this is consistently thru out the house you might just have a novice or apprentice. You're also paying for that waste.


This is ridiculous. I want to see you roll mud on ceilings and stamp it out and not drop that thick mud all over the floor. You dont have a damn clue so quit acting like you do.

I'm sorry you're having a bad day, but perhaps you should go back and read my original statement. I was referring to the initial installation of sheetrock, not a finish texture. In addition I have rolled mud in the past and we always used a drop cloth for any dripping. We also were not in such a rush to finish that we overloaded the roller.

Sheeting? Sheating? Did I misspell it?

I mean the plywood on the walls. Yankee term, I guess. ( I'm an ex-yankee)

Sheathing?

I thought the entire world had gone to OSB. Is plywood typically used in SoWal?

Sheathing?

I thought the entire world had gone to OSB. Is plywood typically used in SoWal?

I can't think of a house I've seen in recent years that has been anything other than OSB. I would think you would be adding a huge cost to the overall construction for little gain.

I can't think of a house I've seen in recent years that has been anything other than OSB. I would think you would be adding a huge cost to the overall construction for little gain.

I haven't seen any OSB homes where I've been building for quite some time. It gets a bad rap from those who don't get it.

I'm sorry you're having a bad day, but perhaps you should go back and read my original statement. I was referring to the initial installation of sheetrock, not a finish texture. In addition I have rolled mud in the past and we always used a drop cloth for any dripping. We also were not in such a rush to finish that we overloaded the roller.

You're a cool dude, but you might want to quit while you're ahead on this one. I swear it's true that there are some things you might not really get about running finish until you've taped and slick finished 20 or more homes. It's one of those trades that you can do o.k. if you're a good study, but you'll not excel till you've performed the work daily for a while.

Finishers use stilts on a regular basis, and if you've worked lids off stilts you just know that drop cloths really are out of the question. There's nothing wrong with banjo's or bazooka's, but they will make some mess. Pro's know why you should use those kind of tools and accept the fact that they'll lose some mud. Hand running a bucket of mud will take you about 10 times as long as running it out of tapers and flat boxes and at $12 a bucket it makes no sense to waste the time being neat and clean. You really can't reclaim mud once it takes on contaminants so taking your time and working spotless really doesn't make much fiscal sense.

It's all true chief. I'm not trying to be a jerk.

Sheathing?

I thought the entire world had gone to OSB. Is plywood typically used in SoWal?

Sheathing! That's it! I looked it up in the dictionary. Sheathing to me means the sheath/sheat/(sheet) material on the home, be it osb or plywood.

So if sheathing is the material, is sheating the action, or am I sheathing with sheathing? Ah...who cares.