Can anyone tell me what the avg heated/cooled building costs are in Grayton ,Thanks
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39
Christini Zambini
Can anyone tell me what the avg heated/cooled building costs are in Grayton ,Thanks
Building costs vary depending on type of construction (wood frame, concrete), finishes, etc. It might be helpful to be more specific. Costs can be from the mid 100's/square foot up to 300/square foot.
Beach ComberAuthor
Im thinking of frame/wood,9-10 ceilings,all wood floors throughout/tile 3 baths
Christini Zambini
Im thinking of frame/wood,9-10 ceilings,all wood floors throughout/tile 3 baths
A wood frame home with hardiplank siding and standard finishes (basic trim, solid-surface countertops, stock cabinets, etc.) should not cost more than $200/sq. foot and can probably be built for a bit lower. A 3-story home requires wind rated windows/doors on all levels or storm shutters, which are both very expensive. Go for the windows--much less headache and not much more expensive than shutters.
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Beach Fanatic
....... Go for the windows--much less headache and not much more expensive than shutters.[/QUOT
So if you have these WIND RATED windows and doors does that give you the same protection as shutters? Would you need to board up these WIND RATED windows in case of an "event" ??
THANKS!!
Admin
....... Go for the windows--much less headache and not much more expensive than shutters.[/QUOT
So if you have these WIND RATED windows and doors does that give you the same protection as shutters? Would you need to board up these WIND RATED windows in case of an "event" ??
THANKS!!
Theoretically, no - you wouldn't need shutters if windows with laminated glass are installed correctly. Shutters do help prevent water infiltration, although the manufacturers will tell you that their windows don't leak.
Beach Fanatic
I think the shutters are also better for withstanding flying debris. IIRC, the wind-rated windows can break if hit by debris, but not shatter due to the laminations.
Beach Fanatic
So if you have these WIND RATED windows and doors does that give you the same protection as shutters? Would you need to board up these WIND RATED windows in case of an "event" ??
THANKS!!
Actually there are two seperate issues with windows in FL:
All windows in Florida must be wind rated (the actual pressure rating is determined by location). However, only those homes within the wind-borne debris area must be protected from flying debris.
The wind-borne debris area is roughly one mile from the coast, but Walton County has maps which indicate where this zone is exactly.
Window/Doors are protected by either an impact rated shutters or they are constructed of impact glazing.
Please note that installed, impact rated shutters are also quite expensive, they are not just your ordinary louvered shutters you would get at Home Depot.
The cheapest option when building in the wind-borne debris region, is to use non-impact rated windows/doors, and protect these with metal or plywood panels -these must be on site at the time of your final building inspection and a track or other hanging system must be evident. Obviously this option is not as convenient as the impact glass or pre-hung rated shutters as it can take a while to get all the panels up when a storm is approaching.
Beach Crab
Code changed as to windows and shutters in 2007. You can no longer meet the requirement with sutters or plywood that are stroed. It is now much easier to install Impact Rated windows. You will also save a ton of money every year once you have the home inspected and verify to the insurance company that the windows are impact rated. Also, if you are out of the area and get on 18 hours notice, it is not likely you will be able to get the shutters istalled in time.
In new code you would have to have installe dshutters that can be closed quickly and not stored. These types are expensive (and not very attractive). If you have impact rated windows, they have been tested and certified by breaking the glass and then subjecting them to 9,000 cycle of positive and negative wind speeds of 140 mph for the Destin area.
See this for more info. http://www.biltbest-windows-and-patio-doors.com/index.php/biltbest-storm-guard
In new code you would have to have installe dshutters that can be closed quickly and not stored. These types are expensive (and not very attractive). If you have impact rated windows, they have been tested and certified by breaking the glass and then subjecting them to 9,000 cycle of positive and negative wind speeds of 140 mph for the Destin area.
See this for more info. http://www.biltbest-windows-and-patio-doors.com/index.php/biltbest-storm-guard
SoWal Expert
Thanks for the update rancov. Doesn't the new change affect all new construction in SoWal, where it used to include just the homes close to the Gulf?
SWGB
If impact rated windows are so great why did WaterColor (St. Joe) board up all of there homes during that last two hurricanes?
SoWal Expert
two reasons,
1) plywood is cheaper than replacing windows. Impact resistant doesn't mean they won't break.
2) not all windows in WaterColor are impact resistant. At one time, impact resistant glass was not required if the home was designed to handle the pressure. Those laws have since changed.
1) plywood is cheaper than replacing windows. Impact resistant doesn't mean they won't break.
2) not all windows in WaterColor are impact resistant. At one time, impact resistant glass was not required if the home was designed to handle the pressure. Those laws have since changed.
Beach Lover
The use of impact windows and doors vs double pane windows and doors negates the current market adjusted savings on construction costs.
In simpler terms, the money you would save due to a slower market and more abundant subs is lost when you buy these newly required windows.
This is another nail in the coffin for this market.
In simpler terms, the money you would save due to a slower market and more abundant subs is lost when you buy these newly required windows.
This is another nail in the coffin for this market.
Beach Lover
Rancov, agreed there are some insurance companies out there that will give you a very, very small discount for your homeowner insurance. I analyzed one situation and the break-even point for the new impact windows vs the old double pane windows was 27 years, in consideration of this insurance discount.
This is not a good investment and I wouldnt exactly say it will "save you a ton of money".
I also do not agree that the new shutters are unattractive, this can be overcome but not always depending on the design of the home. More traditional homes work better, Palm Beach wont work due to the larger windows.
In fact, this new code requirement will just basically add a lot of costs to your windows and home, at a time when we already have insurmountable problems in this state regarding home construction and real estate.
As a builder, I do not see the practicality of someone building a new house at a special time in our history when there are thousands of distressed situations in the market that a builder cannot even think about competing with in cost. However sometimes cost is not a factor, I think in about
.0000000001 percent of the time cost is not a factor.
This is not a good investment and I wouldnt exactly say it will "save you a ton of money".
I also do not agree that the new shutters are unattractive, this can be overcome but not always depending on the design of the home. More traditional homes work better, Palm Beach wont work due to the larger windows.
In fact, this new code requirement will just basically add a lot of costs to your windows and home, at a time when we already have insurmountable problems in this state regarding home construction and real estate.
As a builder, I do not see the practicality of someone building a new house at a special time in our history when there are thousands of distressed situations in the market that a builder cannot even think about competing with in cost. However sometimes cost is not a factor, I think in about
.0000000001 percent of the time cost is not a factor.
SoWal Expert
You CAN get attractive hurricane shutters (not the rolling kind, but traditional looking shutters) and impact rated windows and doors also have increased security (no smash and grabs w/ laminated glass units) and insulation benefits.
They are $$ because they are new products and are more expensive to produce, but folks who are paying $100k to trick out their kitchen w/ stainless professional appliances won't be deciding not to build because of window/doors prices IMO.
They are $$ because they are new products and are more expensive to produce, but folks who are paying $100k to trick out their kitchen w/ stainless professional appliances won't be deciding not to build because of window/doors prices IMO.
Beach Fanatic
Prices on the high impact windows have already come down dramatically over the past couple of years. They should continue to do so as the market grows.
Beach Fanatic
Code changed as to windows and shutters in 2007. You can no longer meet the requirement with sutters or plywood that are stroed. It is now much easier to install Impact Rated windows. You will also save a ton of money every year once you have the home inspected and verify to the insurance company that the windows are impact rated. Also, if you are out of the area and get on 18 hours notice, it is not likely you will be able to get the shutters istalled in time.
In new code you would have to have installe dshutters that can be closed quickly and not stored. These types are expensive (and not very attractive). If you have impact rated windows, they have been tested and certified by breaking the glass and then subjecting them to 9,000 cycle of positive and negative wind speeds of 140 mph for the Destin area.
See this for more info. http://www.biltbest-windows-and-patio-doors.com/index.php/biltbest-storm-guard
Rancov,
I think you?re ? correct.
Ordinance 2007-53 went into effect Dec11, 2007 modifying the location of Walton Counties Wind Borne Debris Region (see map ftp://gisftp.co.walton.fl.us/County_Website/Building%20Dept/Wind_Debris_wc_rv4.pdf)
??.putting all of SoWal smack in the 140 mph wind zone. This bumps us out of the following part of the Florida Building Code:
"Section 1609.1.4 Protection of Openings.
1. Wood structural panels with a minimum thickness of 7/16 inch and a maximum span of 8 feet shall be permitted for opening protection in one and two story buildings. Panels shall be precut to cover the glazed openings with attachment hardware provided."?..where wind speeds do not exceed 130 mph.
So you can?t use plywood to provide your wind borne debris protection, but Florida Building Code ?Residential Section R4410.4 allows the use of detached, approved shutters.
For budget conscious homeowners; approved (usually metal) panels that can be stored on site and put up when a storm threatens is a cheaper option than impact glazing.
Beach Fanatic
Rancov, agreed there are some insurance companies out there that will give you a very, very small discount for your homeowner insurance. I analyzed one situation and the break-even point for the new impact windows vs the old double pane windows was 27 years, in consideration of this insurance discount.
This is not a good investment and I wouldnt exactly say it will "save you a ton of money".
I also do not agree that the new shutters are unattractive, this can be overcome but not always depending on the design of the home. More traditional homes work better, Palm Beach wont work due to the larger windows.
In fact, this new code requirement will just basically add a lot of costs to your windows and home, at a time when we already have insurmountable problems in this state regarding home construction and real estate.
As a builder, I do not see the practicality of someone building a new house at a special time in our history when there are thousands of distressed situations in the market that a builder cannot even think about competing with in cost. However sometimes cost is not a factor, I think in about
.0000000001 percent of the time cost is not a factor.
I disagree with your analysis. Your analysis assumes that no storm is involved in your 27 year return. With that assumption hurricane straps and clips would not be cost effective. If calm clear weather were the only consideration for the next 27 year then most of the hurricane hardened construction would not be cost effective. Put a 2% or 5% deductible into the financial equation and the windows would more than pay for themselves. Also, there could easily be a future insurability question down the road and thus a future saleability question. I know pre-2003 code vs. post-2003 code made a huge difference in whether I could get insurance or not and whether I bought or not.
Please also remember that building codes are only minimum design requirements and are not necessarily "best practice". There is no law that prevents building better than code.
In short deleting the better windows in lieu of getting the granite counter top may not be the best long term building decision from the home owner's perspective.
Beach Lover
99 out of a 100 would rather have the granite countertops than the storm windows.
Your point about a 5% deductible is a good one. When you consider a home on 30-A insured value of a million the first fifty thousand dollars in damage is yours, the insurance game becomes more absurd.
I think hurricane straps and metal tie-downs are a little different than storm windows. These pieces of metal only cost a couple thousand dollars for a whole house. These tie downs are just as valuable as the storm windows and doors but yet cost one twentieth as much as the windows and doors, not a reasonable comparison.
A wise man said one time that people will pay anything to save money and that seems to be true. Also your analysis assumes you will have storm damage, my assumption assumes you will not, so one analysis is optimistic and one is pessimistic!!!
Your point about a 5% deductible is a good one. When you consider a home on 30-A insured value of a million the first fifty thousand dollars in damage is yours, the insurance game becomes more absurd.
I think hurricane straps and metal tie-downs are a little different than storm windows. These pieces of metal only cost a couple thousand dollars for a whole house. These tie downs are just as valuable as the storm windows and doors but yet cost one twentieth as much as the windows and doors, not a reasonable comparison.
A wise man said one time that people will pay anything to save money and that seems to be true. Also your analysis assumes you will have storm damage, my assumption assumes you will not, so one analysis is optimistic and one is pessimistic!!!
SoWal Expert
Also not included are everyone's insurance rates if SoWal gets whacked by a some major storms during that 27 year period. If storms blow out the windows, causing major interior damage to many of the homes around here, we all can expect increased rates and more difficult to obtain insurance.
Beach Fanatic
In California, Tennessee, Alaska and many other states we require that a structure be designed for earthquake loads. Is that pessimistic? Last time Tennessee had a major quake was almost 200 years ago, however we have written the codes with the understanding that loss of life would be extremely high the New Madrid goes off, unless we design with the anticipation of a major quake. It is estimated that the last New Madrid quake topped 8.0. At that level the soil liquefies, farm fields look like the gulf on a rough day and tall buildings look like wet spaghetti.
With such things in mind we design for anticipated problems happening rather than hoping that they do not. Building codes attempt to balance the odds of something happening with the cost to implement a protective measure. The goal is protecting the lives of the occupants. If we designed for sunny warm days then a nice tent would serve most everyone well. The reality is that it gets cold so we need insulation, it gets windy so we need a certain strengths to resist the winds. Much of Florida has design winds of 130 to 150 mph. For the average house that works out to roughly 27 to 55 lbs per square foot for the entire side of the house, windows included. With that in mind remember that your living room floor is only rated at 40 lbs per square foot. One important purpose of the impact rated window is to maintain the integrity of the structural envelope. Once the windows go field research of hurricane damaged structures shows that the house will likely loose its roof, exposing the contents to wind and rain.
We also need to include in the cost analysis the cost of putting all those nails in the hurricane ties. The bill for the metal may be a couple of thousand, but the cost to put 8 to 32 nails per strap is much much higher. Many manufactures and engineers require that all the nail holes in the ties be filled with a nail in order to get any strength from the tie. Major labor cost.
My point is that in order for a structure to resist hurricane forces the house must work as a complete structural system. All of the components have to work together. The house is only as strong as its weakest component. Nature loves to exploit weaknesses.
BTW nature does not recognize building codes. There is no law of nature that says that the winds cannot top 140 mph along the emerald coast or that the gusts must be limited to 3 seconds. That was just what the code committee agreed on base on the best information that they had available. It was not that long ago that the code committee thought that the trees would protect the houses in this area and thus the design wind forces could be reduced.
With such things in mind we design for anticipated problems happening rather than hoping that they do not. Building codes attempt to balance the odds of something happening with the cost to implement a protective measure. The goal is protecting the lives of the occupants. If we designed for sunny warm days then a nice tent would serve most everyone well. The reality is that it gets cold so we need insulation, it gets windy so we need a certain strengths to resist the winds. Much of Florida has design winds of 130 to 150 mph. For the average house that works out to roughly 27 to 55 lbs per square foot for the entire side of the house, windows included. With that in mind remember that your living room floor is only rated at 40 lbs per square foot. One important purpose of the impact rated window is to maintain the integrity of the structural envelope. Once the windows go field research of hurricane damaged structures shows that the house will likely loose its roof, exposing the contents to wind and rain.
We also need to include in the cost analysis the cost of putting all those nails in the hurricane ties. The bill for the metal may be a couple of thousand, but the cost to put 8 to 32 nails per strap is much much higher. Many manufactures and engineers require that all the nail holes in the ties be filled with a nail in order to get any strength from the tie. Major labor cost.
My point is that in order for a structure to resist hurricane forces the house must work as a complete structural system. All of the components have to work together. The house is only as strong as its weakest component. Nature loves to exploit weaknesses.
BTW nature does not recognize building codes. There is no law of nature that says that the winds cannot top 140 mph along the emerald coast or that the gusts must be limited to 3 seconds. That was just what the code committee agreed on base on the best information that they had available. It was not that long ago that the code committee thought that the trees would protect the houses in this area and thus the design wind forces could be reduced.
SWGB
99 out of a 100 would rather have the granite countertops than the storm windows.
Your point about a 5% deductible is a good one. When you consider a home on 30-A insured value of a million the first fifty thousand dollars in damage is yours, the insurance game becomes more absurd.
I think hurricane straps and metal tie-downs are a little different than storm windows. These pieces of metal only cost a couple thousand dollars for a whole house. These tie downs are just as valuable as the storm windows and doors but yet cost one twentieth as much as the windows and doors, not a reasonable comparison.
A wise man said one time that people will pay anything to save money and that seems to be true. Also your analysis assumes you will have storm damage, my assumption assumes you will not, so one analysis is optimistic and one is pessimistic!!!
So if a potential home owner were to ask you if they should install them, what would you tell them?
Beach Fanatic
In California, Tennessee, Alaska and many other states we require that a structure be designed for earthquake loads. Is that pessimistic? Last time Tennessee had a major quake was almost 200 years ago, however we have written the codes with the understanding that loss of life would be extremely high the New Madrid goes off, unless we design with the anticipation of a major quake. It is estimated that the last New Madrid quake topped 8.0. At that level the soil liquefies, farm fields look like the gulf on a rough day and tall buildings look like wet spaghetti.If I stand up on one leg I am placing 215lbs on approximately 1/3 of a foot square. What am I missing ..do you mean inches? And if I jump up and land on just my heel that lbs/ft goes up exponentially. Do I need to start slithering around on my belly causing greater displacement of weight?
With such things in mind we design for anticipated problems happening rather than hoping that they do not. Building codes attempt to balance the odds of something happening with the cost to implement a protective measure. The goal is protecting the lives of the occupants. If we designed for sunny warm days then a nice tent would serve most everyone well. The reality is that it gets cold so we need insulation, it gets windy so we need a certain strengths to resist the winds. Much of Florida has design winds of 130 to 150 mph. For the average house that works out to roughly 27 to 55 lbs per square foot for the entire side of the house, windows included. With that in mind remember that your living room floor is only rated at 40 lbs per square foot. One important purpose of the impact rated window is to maintain the integrity of the structural envelope. Once the windows go field research of hurricane damaged structures shows that the house will likely loose its roof, exposing the contents to wind and rain.
We also need to include in the cost analysis the cost of putting all those nails in the hurricane ties. The bill for the metal may be a couple of thousand, but the cost to put 8 to 32 nails per strap is much much higher. Many manufactures and engineers require that all the nail holes in the ties be filled with a nail in order to get any strength from the tie. Major labor cost.
My point is that in order for a structure to resist hurricane forces the house must work as a complete structural system. All of the components have to work together. The house is only as strong as its weakest component. Nature loves to exploit weaknesses.
BTW nature does not recognize building codes. There is no law of nature that says that the winds cannot top 140 mph along the emerald coast or that the gusts must be limited to 3 seconds. That was just what the code committee agreed on base on the best information that they had available. It was not that long ago that the code committee thought that the trees would protect the houses in this area and thus the design wind forces could be reduced.
SWGB
If I stand up on one leg I am placing 215lbs on approximately 1/3 of a foot square. What am I missing ..do you mean inches? And if I jump up and land on just my heel that lbs/ft goes up exponentially. Do I need to start slithering around on my belly causing greater displacement of weight?
Careful don't poke an engineer.
Beach Fanatic
Careful don't poke an engineer.I am truly asking for clarification I don't understand how I am able to walk across my floor without falling through.
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