St Joe has unveiled it's conceptual PUD master plan for 183.5 acres on hwy 98, beginning at the intersection of 30-A and continuing west past W. Hewett Rd. Get this... the plan not only includes a massive 80,000 sq. ft. big box, but 5 more in the range of 25,000 to 45,000 sq. ft. Here's the basic breakdown:
Phase one- 80,000 sq. ft. BIG BOX store.
Phase two- directly behind the big box, 4 apartment bldgs for seniors, 190 units and a 110 unit assisted living facility.
Phase three- TWO 25,000 sq. ft. retail bldgs. with a 10' setback on W. Hewett Rd. A 5,400 sq. ft. gas station and a 6,000 sq. ft. restaurant.
Phase four- A 45,000 sq. ft. retail with an additional 12,900 sq. ft. attached. A 5,000 sq. ft. office bldg., 2 restaurants @ 6000 or so sq. ft. each and a 13,225 sq. ft. pharmacy.
Phase five- Another 3 big retail stores @ 35,000, 28,000 and 11,836 sq. ft. plus a bank and another restaurant @ 6000 sq. ft.
Phase six- 10 apartment bldgs. with 310 units.
Now as I sit on my deck at night, instead of dark skys and stars I'll see 4 story apartment bldgs and the loading docks for big box stores. Increased traffic, noise and pollution, along with decreased property value in the immediate area, is how we will benefit. I completely understand and agree that St Joe has the right to develop their property however they also have a responsibility to the residents of this community, to exercise restraint. My neighbor will be within 20 feet of this project.
This matter is set to go before the county commisioners on August 25th.
After 20 years of living in this great area, I never dreamed we would allow Santa Rosa Beach to become Panama City or Destin.
Replies
64Beach Lover
It has been proven time and time again that big box stores hurt local economies.
How so? Sales taxes which are now being sent to Okaloosa or Bay Counties will now stay in SRB. The improvement of the vacant land will generate additional RE taxes to the benefit of the county. Also seems like this will create more jobs; perhaps lower paying jobs but jobs & new consumers nonetheless.
They pay lower wages and send profits out of state.
lower labor costs = lower prices; which i like b/c then i can spend my savings at other local places. & the profits can easily come back to the state & your pocket via dividends.
The incresed need for municipal services almost cancels the tax benefit in the long run, not to mention what this will do for our local small retailers who have worked their butt off surviving our fickle economy.
Huh? & the latter is referred to as Darwinism or creative destruction. if you want to support local retailers please feel free to do so; but i'm going for best value
SoWal Expert
Can you say Environmental Impact Statement? Such a large parcel must have some mitigation needs...
jr
jr
Beach Fanatic
The property north of 98 is not a part of Topsail. There's a parcel in that area that was designated Conservation Easement in the Settlement agreement between St. Joe and the State. From what I remember . St. Joe owns the property but it is held in a Conservation Easment, they can't do anything with it. The County maps had the property mislabeled for a while, not sure if it's been corrected.
beats on hood
Is August 25th the date for the BCC meeting? I want to be there. I'll have to find a place to stay. Our house is rented.
Beach Fanatic
How so? Sales taxes which are now being sent to Okaloosa or Bay Counties will now stay in SRB. The improvement of the vacant land will generate additional RE taxes to the benefit of the county. Also seems like this will create more jobs; perhaps lower paying jobs but jobs & new consumers nonetheless.
lower labor costs = lower prices; which i like b/c then i can spend my savings at other local places. & the profits can easily come back to the state & your pocket via dividends.
Huh? & the latter is referred to as Darwinism or creative destruction. if you want to support local retailers please feel free to do so; but i'm going for best value
Dude, you're "thinking" as blindly as Walter does in your favorite film.
Instead of going for what you believe to be the best value, next time buy or order a copy of The Big Lebowski from the record store in Seaside .... and while you're there, also order a copy of Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price . The price on the item is usually not the true, whole price to society & local community.
SoWal Expert
The property north of 98 is not a part of Topsail. There's a parcel in that area that was designated Conservation Easement in the Settlement agreement between St. Joe and the State. From what I remember . St. Joe owns the property but it is held in a Conservation Easment, they can't do anything with it. The County maps had the property mislabeled for a while, not sure if it's been corrected.
Thanks. Looking back at the maps to further investigate, I realize that I made an error in labeling the map which I posted above. Attached is a corrected version, according to the WalCo Property Appraiser's site, which you note, may be incorrect. The parcels which are adjacent to this JOE property and appear to be state owned with a land use of "Town Center," are:
30-2S-20-33230-000-001B
and
25-2S-21-42000-016-0000
Beach Fanatic
So it's the parcel just to the west of where Albertson's has planned on building about 5ish years back? Seems like the general plan for that area had been larger scale commercial along US 98 for a while.
This is probably going to end up passing, so the thing I'd start focusing on is requiring a serious buffer area between the commercial and the residential, at least as much as there is between Kelly Plantation and the Marshall's/Fresh Market shopping area in Destin.
This is probably going to end up passing, so the thing I'd start focusing on is requiring a serious buffer area between the commercial and the residential, at least as much as there is between Kelly Plantation and the Marshall's/Fresh Market shopping area in Destin.
Beach Lover
how about taking another approach? the link takes you to a repair kit for sub-urban sprawl. Here we can do things right perhaps even before breaking ground! Urban Sprawl Repair Kit: Repairing The Urban Fabric ? ReBurbia
http://www.re-burbia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/UrbanSprawlRepairKIT.jpg
http://www.re-burbia.com/wp-content/uploads/2932/SprawRepairToolkitBuildingTypes_Page_1.jpg
http://www.re-burbia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/UrbanSprawlRepairKIT.jpg
http://www.re-burbia.com/wp-content/uploads/2932/SprawRepairToolkitBuildingTypes_Page_1.jpg
Beach ComberAuthor
how about taking another approach? the link takes you to a repair kit for sub-urban sprawl. Here we can do things right perhaps even before breaking ground! Urban Sprawl Repair Kit: Repairing The Urban Fabric ? ReBurbia
http://www.re-burbia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/UrbanSprawlRepairKIT.jpg
http://www.re-burbia.com/wp-content/uploads/2932/SprawRepairToolkitBuildingTypes_Page_1.jpg
Leo
Thanks so much for your post. That is exactly what I was thinking but the pictures explain it best. This type of development is what Keith Howard has done at Grand Blvd. With the exception of Publix, the shops are pushed forward to the road with a common "market street" and most parking is behind the development creating a larger buffer. He has also included common space and wonderful aesthetics.
This will be the first major commercial project from Santa Rosa Beach to Inlet Beach. I hope that we can work together with Joe and the county to set a good precedent for the community.
Thanks again for the insightful information.
Beach ComberAuthor
Major commercial development in SoWal to be approved?
See prior post in Real Estate Forum - St Joe Big Box comes to So Wal
Also view Miller - McCune report posted on 8/24/09 in Real Estate Forum.
Walton county commissioners will review the proposed development @ 5:00 pm @ the Walton County courthouse in Defuniak Springs on Tuesday August 25th. Plan to attend or contact you commissioner.
See prior post in Real Estate Forum - St Joe Big Box comes to So Wal
Also view Miller - McCune report posted on 8/24/09 in Real Estate Forum.
Walton county commissioners will review the proposed development @ 5:00 pm @ the Walton County courthouse in Defuniak Springs on Tuesday August 25th. Plan to attend or contact you commissioner.
SWGB
As much as I would love to see South Walton just freeze development and then listen to everyone complain the sky rocketing real estate prices I do have to say that this plan seems to fall right into the Transect planning model. I've been to two presentations and it seems to me that stepping from single family to multi family to commercial is right in line. Perhaps the steps aren't spaced as far enough apart, but it follows the curve pretty well. The only thing missing would be work/live between multi family and pure commercial.
Admin
This will be the first major commercial project from Santa Rosa Beach to Inlet Beach. I hope that we can work together with Joe and the county to set a good precedent for the community.
Thanks for posting, and being involved. I urge everyone to attend meetings to give input. Talk to developers and officials outside of meetings, and write letters and emails.
Also please know that by posting here, your views are seen by those who are making decisions, and you are participating in an important discourse, and means of providing education.
SoWal Expert
swgb, I don't see this as transect planning at all. The property goes from commercial big box stores to single family residential, with no transition at all. I have attended only one Transect Planning mtg, so maybe I'm missing something, but I thought that smooth transitions, not only of use, but size of buildings was critical to Transect Planning. Maybe one of the experts will chime in (please).
SWGB
swgb, I don't see this as transect planning at all. The property goes from commercial big box stores to single family residential, with no transition at all. I have attended only one Transect Planning mtg, so maybe I'm missing something, but I thought that smooth transitions, not only of use, but size of buildings was critical to Transect Planning. Maybe one of the experts will chime in (please).
SJ, from the original post:
Phase two- directly behind the big box, 4 apartment bldgs for seniors, 190 units and a 110 unit assisted living facility.
That would be the transition I was referring to. It's not exactly the visual for transect planning, but it's closer than a big box store backing up to an established single family community.
SoWal Expert
gotcha.
SoWal Expert
Staff report for "Topsail West":
http://www.co.walton.fl.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1168
Site plan:
http://www.co.walton.fl.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1166
http://www.co.walton.fl.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1168
Site plan:
http://www.co.walton.fl.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1166
Admin
Remind me again why parking goes in front of buildings please.
SWGB
Remind me again why parking goes in front of buildings please.
That's where the doors are usually located.
Seriously though I'm curious why they are adding Handicap spaces over and above the required amount. I can't remember the last time I saw all handicapped spaces in a parking lot utilized and even then there was always some jerk that didn't have the placard or plate to be there in the first place.
P.S. Kurt I'm all for putting the parking primarily below the structure. This is Florida seems like the smartest idea since it keeps your car cool while you are inside. It also keeps the light pollution at bay.
SoWal Expert
maybe the additional handicapped spaces are to encourage the elderly to look at the apartments for elderly, or the assisted living places. It isn't like they can actually walk to the big box stores from their places if they are handicapped.
Parking is usually at front so that people driving past know that there is actually shopping to do. I think the biggest complaint I hear from people in places where the parking is in back, eg- Flip Flops, LaBotana, etc, is that people don't know that it is even commercial -- there is no feeling of an entrance to get to the commercial, then when they park, they approach the businesses from the back. It is a little weird, but that parking in the back is what keeps the scenic in "scenic hwy," or so I'm told.
Parking is usually at front so that people driving past know that there is actually shopping to do. I think the biggest complaint I hear from people in places where the parking is in back, eg- Flip Flops, LaBotana, etc, is that people don't know that it is even commercial -- there is no feeling of an entrance to get to the commercial, then when they park, they approach the businesses from the back. It is a little weird, but that parking in the back is what keeps the scenic in "scenic hwy," or so I'm told.
SoWal Expert
Parking underneath sounds great for keeping the car cool, but i bet is much more expensive to build the stores higher above ground and it is better for business to be on ground level. Out of sight, out of mind.
Admin
I don't need to see cars to know where to shop. Nor do I want to shop at Sacred Heart Hospital when I see all the cars out front. Although I do see an advantage of having trucks and loading docks in the rear.
SWGB
Parking underneath sounds great for keeping the car cool, but i bet is much more expensive to build the stores higher above ground and it is better for business to be on ground level. Out of sight, out of mind.
Yes elevating the store and it's 20 foot high letters would definitely lower the visibility. :roll:
SoWal Expert
SGWB, I understand what you are saying for the people driving past, but when people get out of their cars, and cannot see the stores, nor their signs, the stores are indeed out of sight. When they get out of their cars at Grand Blvd Publix, they can see most of the store signs from the parking lot. For big box stores, it wouldn't likely matter much regarding the visibility, because people go to those stores for specific needs. However, for a small store/business which hopes to feed off of walk-by foot traffic, second floor doesn't sell nearly as well as ground level.
That said, I do like the idea of less impact on the property by parking underneath, and I certainly would like the shade of parking on a hot summer day. Plenty of shopping malls make that work by providing parking decks, where real estate is at a premium.
With reference to Kurt's point about parking in front, I, too, like some of the shopping design of places like Destin Commons and Pier Park, where the store fronts are facing other stores and pedestrian foot traffic, with parking on the peripheral. I think Pier Park is laid out better because it doesn't have as much road frontage, compared to Destin Commons.
That said, I do like the idea of less impact on the property by parking underneath, and I certainly would like the shade of parking on a hot summer day. Plenty of shopping malls make that work by providing parking decks, where real estate is at a premium.
With reference to Kurt's point about parking in front, I, too, like some of the shopping design of places like Destin Commons and Pier Park, where the store fronts are facing other stores and pedestrian foot traffic, with parking on the peripheral. I think Pier Park is laid out better because it doesn't have as much road frontage, compared to Destin Commons.
Beach Fanatic
I am not sure it is a good idea to put anything underground around here. Go out into your yard and see how far down you have to go before you hit water - and that's when it's not raining. If it's more than 2 feet, you must live on a ridge.
I wouldn't park my car underground here.
I wouldn't park my car underground here.
SoWal Expert
I took "underground" to mean below the building, but ground floor. On that JOE property, according to wetland maps, digging out 10 ft might mean that you could park your boat under the building.
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