Panama City Beach

Very quiet at the West End of the beach. We just rent there but you might try Carillon Beach Resort or the Pinnacle Port Condominiums right next door at 23,223 Front Beach Rd. If the Carillon Beach Resort is still in business that is. Right next door to the shops at Carillon. Edgewater is a nice place also.

I really enjoy reading the messages in this forum. The information is very useful and insightful. I'd love some advice on PCB. We are thinking of buying a condo, ideally near the beach. Would really like to buy something along 30A but PCB seems more in our price range. It appears that there are alot of PCB condos in the low 200's, which seems like a deal given the proximity to the beach. I know there's lots of new construction going on; it makes me wonder if a condo that has a partial gulf view today may be blocked out by a skyscraper in a couple of years. Can anyone advise which areas of PCB to avoid, if any? Are there vast differences between the eastern and western edges of PCB? We are quiet folks so we don't want to be in the middle of it all. Thank you very much.

Hi Ohio,

It depends on what you're looking for sizewise. You can actually get into 30A in the low 200's if a studio or B&B is OK for you. There are a 2 two bedroom places on 30A which are quite nice units but you'd have to ride your bicycle.

There are 3 gulf front studios in PCB for less than $260 (allowing for negotiation). They're on the east end which is pretty busy. One is a new one on Thomas Drive and actually a very nice complex. The west end of PCB is quieter and there are quite a few 1 BR's on front beach under 200K, Also a couple of 2BR's under $250k. Some of these are near Carillon but there's nothing under $899K in Carillon right now (all DSF's)

Destin also has some small (B&B and 1 BR) units within walking to the beach but the traffic is terrible there.

You'd probably be better on 30A or West end PCB if you don't want all the activity. Would be happy to send you the listings if you want.

Cork:

What do you think of the Horizon South condo complex on the West End of Panama City Beach? I stayed there for a few nights last summer because our place was booked and we were looking for an inexpensive place to stay while waiting for our place to open up on 30A. I liked it and it was close to the beach. And I like the Panama City Beach. I don't think it's up high so if a hurricane came along, I'd wonder about the risk of storm surge. The two bedroom was around $250,000 last summer I think. Also, I wonder if these condos were built before or after hurricane code. I noticed the "dump" area was pretty messy so I don't know if the association/owners tend to take care of the place well or not. Anyway, at the time I thought to myself that it could be a good deal if someone wanted to be near 30A and on a nice beach in a quiet part of Panama City Beach.

I really enjoy reading the messages in this forum. The information is very useful and insightful. I'd love some advice on PCB. We are thinking of buying a condo, ideally near the beach. Would really like to buy something along 30A but PCB seems more in our price range. It appears that there are alot of PCB condos in the low 200's, which seems like a deal given the proximity to the beach. I know there's lots of new construction going on; it makes me wonder if a condo that has a partial gulf view today may be blocked out by a skyscraper in a couple of years. Can anyone advise which areas of PCB to avoid, if any? Are there vast differences between the eastern and western edges of PCB? We are quiet folks so we don't want to be in the middle of it all. Thank you very much.

OG,
No need to rush into this purchase as there will be plenty to choose from--especially after this summer season is over. I believe the competition to snag summer vacation renters will be fierce as more and more rental condos flood onto the market--many owners will end the season with negative cash flow (even in the absence of hurricanes, shark attacks or red tide) and be softened up and ready to deal.

Currently the prices are still too high and investulators are just starting to sweat. Unsold condo inventory is spiking up and sales going into the much bally-hooed Big Spring Selling Season have been "flatter than a sat-on hat."

If you plan to rent the condo out to help cover the carry costs you must make sure you have a prime location and view and by all means take the time to do a thorough cash flow analysis to include yearly bump-ups in association fees, insurance and taxes. (Florida real estate isn't the bargain it once was. Some folks are finding that it is better to put the $400,000 into jumbo CDs, peel off the proceeds each year to rent a beach house a couple times a year, and dispense with the muss and fuss of carrying costs.)

As a buyer, you are now entering a period where you are KING...time is on your side, use it wisely and you will be rewarded. Good luck.

Shelly I now realize who you are. You are from that "SNL" Skit.
DEBBIE DOWNER. You can turn any situation into a negative .

Sheeessssssssssss Debbie Downer .

Shelly I now realize who you are. You are from that "SNL" Skit.
DEBBIE DOWNER. You can turn any situation into a negative .

Sheeessssssssssss Debbie Downer .

:lolabove: ...or maybe Wendy Whiner????

Cork on the Ocean has some good advice and seems to have a very good knowledge of the area you are looking in.

I would like to add that you should be sure to only consider property that is at least at 30 ft above sea level. Most of the worst damage done in Katrina was due to storm surge not the wind. 30A has some of the highest elevation coastal property anywhere. There is also some in western Panama City Beach

Also, make sure their is a permanent beach access nearby. 30A has many public accesses and a bike path. Panama City Beach accesses don?t seem as numerous. Also note that Laguna Beach has a wonderful beach access of its own but has some weird 70 year agreement where the original developer can build on their deeded beach access.

When buying be sure to find out if flood insurance is available at a reasonable price. Owners in Destin to Sandestin can not even get flood insurance. I don?t know about PCB.

It is is important to consider the age of the building. You can get substantial windstorm insurance discounts for dwellings constructed after March 2002. If a structure has high impact windows or certified shutters you can get another insurance discount. If your roof is non gabled-a hip roof- you can get more discounts.

I would personally prefer to build my own home to the highest structural standards available. Also I hate to add this but even some new homes that pass inspection for the new code are not really tied down properly. If you want it done right you have to watch it being built.

I actually agree with much of what SHELLY so eloquently said above. It is a buyers market and there are some desperate sellers out there who are panicking. You can get some good deals.

Condos are over built and in PCB and prices could drop more. It really is not cost effective to have a beach front condo-too many risks and expenses.

If by fall we have not had a hurricane and interest/mortgage lending rates drop things could turn around very quickly for some of the prime property but definitely not beach front condos.

If you need any help please feel free to PM me. I am not an agent and I am retired here and I do not have a a condo to sell.

Ohio Girl, the other thing I would add is to not count on paying for your carrying costs with renters. So far, we've paid a lot of our carrying costs with renters but not all of them. And, anything could happen to make it a slow rental year (e.g., hurricanes, overbuilding, etc.). So, you want to buy something you can afford without counting on rentals and the rentals will be a nice bonus. That's what our accountant told us and it's great advice.

Shelly I now realize who you are. You are from that "SNL" Skit.
DEBBIE DOWNER. You can turn any situation into a negative .

Sheeessssssssssss Debbie Downer .

:clap_1: :clap_1: :clap_1: :welcome:

Cork:

What do you think of the Horizon South condo complex on the West End of Panama City Beach? I stayed there for a few nights last summer because our place was booked and we were looking for an inexpensive place to stay while waiting for our place to open up on 30A. I liked it and it was close to the beach. And I like the Panama City Beach. I don't think it's up high so if a hurricane came along, I'd wonder about the risk of storm surge. The two bedroom was around $250,000 last summer I think. Also, I wonder if these condos were built before or after hurricane code. I noticed the "dump" area was pretty messy so I don't know if the association/owners tend to take care of the place well or not. Anyway, at the time I thought to myself that it could be a good deal if someone wanted to be near 30A and on a nice beach in a quiet part of Panama City Beach.

Apologize that I didn't read all of the thread so scuz me but jamming for tax deadline but wanted to answer you paula. I also like the West End there because the 30A feel is moving that way. Many of the old homes have already been replaced with very nice homes. I have one developer that will only build west end PCB because he's forward looking and believes it will catch. Right now there are 3 story new homes directly across the street from the beach for $800K or so. Can you imagine that here? Also lots of very reasonable condos steps to the beach.

Regarding Horizon South, there are 1 BR units as low as $149K and 2BR units as low as $209K. As mentioned there are quite a few available to choose from so I would think prices would be pretty soft. The units were built between 1979 and 2000. The building codes last changed in 2004 so they were built to old code but these are good prices that close to the beach.

I also like a little further west like Laguna Beach because I think that a section of that beach without highrises is going to be premium some day. You may remember the Mandalay Beach which presold and couldn't get the permitting to put a highrise up there because of massive opposition. They finally returned all reservation deposits saying they couldn't get the approval after 2 years. Now the land is up for sale.

There are also some townhomes and condos along west front beach that are very reasonable. It might be possible to cover a $250K unit expenses with seasonal rentals. Would have to check. Also, a 2BR unit has the benefit of being an affordable long term rental which isn't impacted by seasonal storms so I'm kinda thinking of long term rentals personally.

Regarding Shelly's concerns, I know a lady that has bought 23 long term rentals in the past 2.5 years. Started at 52 YO. She has very specific criteria. Single Houses close to water (bay or beach) in metropolitan areas, 3BR/2BA less than $300K, and she puts them on annual rentals with no more than a 5% negative cash flow per home. She's my hero. As soon as she has one rented, she looks for another because the rental income offsets the mortgage and she can again qualify. Then she liquidates at some point after a year based on the best appreciation and reinvests. A very cool self made lady.:clap_1:

Thanks, Cork. I've been curious about that area because we really had a good time and thought the place was nice enough. For people looking for lower income housing across the street from the beach near 30A and in a nicer area of Panama City Beach, it seems quite overlooked to me. The only downside is that the "dump area" looked messy but it's far away from most of the condos, and I wonder if the storm surge would catch up with that area (it's not as high as our area of Seacrest beach). The other downside is that it was constructed before hurricane codes, as were many places along 30A as well. That said, I would think a one or two bedroom would be a great find for someone. It had tennis courts and at least one pool and is across the street from a public beach access. When I mention on this board that creative people would find an affordable place to make it work, this is the kind of place I was thinking about. It would be less than 30 minutes easy to most of 30A up until Seaside.

Can high rises be built along the west end of Panama City Beach or are there codes to prevent it? (Even with the possibility of high rises it seems like a good deal).

Thanks, Cork. I've been curious about that area because we really had a good time and thought the place was nice enough. For people looking for lower income housing across the street from the beach near 30A and in a nicer area of Panama City Beach, it seems quite overlooked to me. The only downside is that the "dump area" looked messy but it's far away from most of the condos, and I wonder if the storm surge would catch up with that area (it's not as high as our area of Seacrest beach). The other downside is that it was constructed before hurricane codes, as were many places along 30A as well. That said, I would think a one or two bedroom would be a great find for someone. It had tennis courts and at least one pool and is across the street from a public beach access. When I mention on this board that creative people would find an affordable place to make it work, this is the kind of place I was thinking about. It would be less than 30 minutes easy to most of 30A up until Seaside. A potential buyer would want to know if it's in a flood zone, whether it can get hurricane insurance, etc. (I can't see why not).

I think the risk of people thinking that there is absolutely no affordable housing in the area prevents people from seeing the possibilities.

Can high rises be built along the west end of Panama City Beach or are there codes to prevent it? (Even with the possibility of high rises it seems like a good deal).

Thanks, Cork. I've been curious about that area because we really had a good time and thought the place was nice enough. For people looking for lower income housing across the street from the beach near 30A and in a nicer area of Panama City Beach, it seems quite overlooked to me. The only downside is that the "dump area" looked messy but it's far away from most of the condos, and I wonder if the storm surge would catch up with that area (it's not as high as our area of Seacrest beach). The other downside is that it was constructed before hurricane codes, as were many places along 30A as well. That said, I would think a one or two bedroom would be a great find for someone. It had tennis courts and at least one pool and is across the street from a public beach access. When I mention on this board that creative people would find an affordable place to make it work, this is the kind of place I was thinking about. It would be less than 30 minutes easy to most of 30A up until Seaside. A potential buyer would want to know if it's in a flood zone, whether it can get hurricane insurance, etc. (I can't see why not).

I think the risk of people thinking that there is absolutely no affordable housing in the area prevents people from seeing the possibilities.

Can high rises be built along the west end of Panama City Beach or are there codes to prevent it? (Even with the possibility of high rises it seems like a good deal).

I agree, it has been overlooked - as have those older homes a half block from the beach for $450K. Some of those lots can have 3 homes built on them. Even at $450/lot, thats $150K per homesite less than a block from the beach!

I know at least some of the beach in PCB has been dredged and built up and the dunes are much better than Holiday Isle and Okaloosa which are non existent so there is some dune protection. Not sure about the flood insurance but will ask a client who just bought over there. Agree with the codes. Ideally they'd be built to new codes and there's a lot over there that is new but theyre more expensive. The highrises have invaded around Horizon South and likely will have more. Some of those homes over there are block cottages so they can be fixed up cutesy and rented out and then when the area is further built out with new stuff, somebody could level the house and put a new home on it or sell for land value. There are a lot of dumpy areas on west PCB and most people are deterred by the transitional nature but so much of that nasty stuff has already been taken down and it's just a matter of time for the rest.

A little further west, there's Laguna and Sunnyside which not only have no highrises, but dedicated beach where nothing can be built. Other west end areas have C-1 zoning which will allow 50 feet dwellings on the beach so just depends on area. It's definitely an area that people have overlooked that I think has long term potential.

How can areas like Laguna Beach and Sunnyside prevent high rises from being built on them? Does PC Beach not have eminent domain laws where they can take your property if you refuse to sell like they can here? Is it because of the Christian retreats in that area? I wouldn't think so!

How can areas like Laguna Beach and Sunnyside prevent high rises from being built on them? Does PC Beach not have eminent domain laws where they can take your property if you refuse to sell like they can here? Is it because of the Christian retreats in that area? I wouldn't think so!

Hi Lady, I don't think emminent domain would have anything to do with a private enterprise putting up a high rise - emminent domain is intended for government use of land.

The county plat maps are great about showing the zoning on every parcel and Bay county is fabulous in working with people. The C-1 zoning has the 50 foot height requirement. Not sure but I think it's the Seasonal Resort zoning that allows for the high rise. In any event, there's mostly C-1 there so if they want to go higher, they need a variance which is an open process where community members have opportunity to object. Also, it's my understanding that the Laguna and Sunnside dedicated beaches can prevent even variances because the homeowners own the land. How great is that?

Cork haven't you seen the abuse of this power lately? Even in Florida there are cases in the works. If it increases tax base apparently that is good for the public so it is OK with the supreme court.

http://www.ij.org/private_property/connecticut/6_29_05pr.html

Hopefully we will get a law in the works to stop things like this.

Hopefully we will get a law in the works to stop things like this.

Happened last week.

Unfortunately it wasn't soon enough for some folks who've lost their properties to greedy developers and their political lapdogs--hopefully it will never happen again!


"TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- House lawmakers voted unanimously on Thursday to make it harder for local governments to condemn buildings and other private property to make way for development.

The move is in response to a U.S. Supreme Court ruling that let local governments condemn property to make way for economic development. State Rep. Dwight Stansel, D-Wellborn, said he had to assure a woman who came to him in tears because she was worried about losing her farm due to the high court's decision.

The House voted for an eminent domain bill, HB 1567, that in most cases would prohibit cities, counties and community redevelopment agencies from condemning slums and blighted or other property for economic development purposes.

It would not affect the use of eminent domain for traditional public purposes such as roads and utilities."

Cork haven't you seen the abuse of this power lately? Even in Florida there are cases in the works. If it increases tax base apparently that is good for the public so it is OK with the supreme court.

http://www.ij.org/private_property/connecticut/6_29_05pr.html

Hopefully we will get a law in the works to stop things like this.

It's only OK with the supreme court, if it's OK with your state. Not suppose to be able to happen in Kentucky.:clap_1: Of course, maybe we don't have anything the government wants.

The House voted for an eminent domain bill, HB 1567, that in most cases would prohibit cities, counties and community redevelopment agencies from condemning slums and blighted or other property for economic development purposes.

It would not affect the use of eminent domain for traditional public purposes such as roads and utilities."

Part of the bill reads:
"provides that the power of eminent domain does not vest in a community redevelopment agency but rather with the governing body of a county or municipality"

This means the county that has done such a great job with the seawalls will decide if the developer can turn your house into a skyscraper and increase tax revenue. :roll: