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Smiling JOe

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[QUOTE=kurt]St. Joe is requesting a land use change for affordable housing on 40 acres north of 98, 7.5 miles east of the SoWal commerce park.[/QUOTE]That would  be very close to WaterSound North, if not part of it. Remember, the County told them that they would have to address adding affordable housing in order to receive a go ahead on WaterSound North.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="kurt">St. Joe is requesting a land use change for affordable housing on 40 acres north of 98, 7.5 miles east of the SoWal commerce park.</blockquote>That would be very close to WaterSound North, if not part of it. Remember, the County told them that they would have to address adding affordable housing in order to receive a go ahead on WaterSound North.

SHELLY

SoWal Insider

[QUOTE=kurt]St. Joe is requesting a land use change for affordable housing on 40 acres north of 98, 7.5 miles east of the SoWal commerce park.[/QUOTE]

What is JOE's definition of "affordable?"

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="kurt">St. Joe is requesting a land use change for affordable housing on 40 acres north of 98, 7.5 miles east of the SoWal commerce park.</blockquote> 
What is JOE&#039;s definition of &quot;affordable?&quot;

Kurt

Admin

[QUOTE=SHELLY]What is JOE's definition of "affordable?"[/QUOTE]
 
The government has definitions.
 
It will be interesting to see if they follow standard guidelines or negotiate their own with the county. Also if the units will be for sale (seemed to be understood in the original stipulation) or for rent, or both.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="SHELLY">What is JOE&#039;s definition of &quot;affordable?&quot;</blockquote> 
The government has definitions. 
 
It will be interesting to see if they follow standard guidelines or negotiate their own with the county. Also if the units will be for sale (seemed to be understood in the original stipulation) or for rent, or both.

Mermaid

picky

An interesting article.

[url="http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/14382974.htm"]http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/14382974.htm[/url]

An interesting article. 
 
<a href="http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/14382974.htm" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/14382974.htm</a>

destinsm

Beach Lover

Gov't intervention is what causes the unaffordable housing in the first place...  Tax laws that benefit high mortgage debt, capital gains exemption on primary home (2 out of 5 years), the fed putting the rate at 1% following 9/11...

 
Affordable housing will fix itself if gov't just stopped manipulating a market that would find its fair value on its own...  We are starting to see that now with lower home sales, record high inventory, and price reductions...  Just hope the gov't will let the market fix itself and stop trying to manipulate our country out of every manic market we produce.  If the Fed wouldn't have pumped out all that free money post NASBOMB and post 9/11 we wouldn't have this problem in the first place...  God forbid our country actually feel some pain from overindulgence in the investment arenas.

Gov&#039;t intervention is what causes the unaffordable housing in the first place... Tax laws that benefit high mortgage debt, capital gains exemption on primary home (2 out of 5 years), the fed putting the rate at 1% following 9/11... 
 
 
Affordable housing will fix itself if gov&#039;t just stopped manipulating a market that would find its fair value on its own... We are starting to see that now with lower home sales, record high inventory, and price reductions... Just hope the gov&#039;t will let the market fix itself and stop trying to manipulate our country out of every manic market we produce. If the Fed wouldn&#039;t have pumped out all that free money post NASBOMB and post 9/11 we wouldn&#039;t have this problem in the first place... God forbid our country actually feel some pain from overindulgence in the investment arenas.

marcuzz

Beach Crab

joe's idea of affordable housing
at least in tallahassee

[url="http://www.joe.com/web/TownsAndHomes/SouthWood/"]http://www.joe.com/web/TownsAndHomes/SouthWood/[/url]

joe&#039;s idea of affordable housing 
at least in tallahassee 
 
<a href="http://www.joe.com/web/TownsAndHomes/SouthWood/" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://www.joe.com/web/TownsAndHomes/SouthWood/</a>

:floor: That is funny, marcuzz.  The gov't has definitions of "affordable housing" based on avg income per household or person in the county.

:floor: That is funny, marcuzz.  The gov&#039;t has definitions of &quot;affordable housing&quot; based on avg income per household or person in the county.

Mango

[QUOTE=destinsm]Gov't intervention is what causes the unaffordable housing in the first place...  Tax laws that benefit high mortgage debt, capital gains exemption on primary home (2 out of 5 years), the fed putting the rate at 1% following 9/11...

 
Affordable housing will fix itself if gov't just stopped manipulating a market that would find its fair value on its own...  We are starting to see that now with lower home sales, record high inventory, and price reductions...  Just hope the gov't will let the market fix itself and stop trying to manipulate our country out of every manic market we produce.  If the Fed wouldn't have pumped out all that free money post NASBOMB and post 9/11 we wouldn't have this problem in the first place...  God forbid our country actually feel some pain from overindulgence in the investment arenas.[/QUOTE]


Government intervention is what drove this economy for the past 5 years post 9/11. Homebuying and home purchases and spending was the highest sector contributing to our economy post 9/11 due to that drop in interest rate. Businesses were ableto borrow money to expand etc.

As far as government intervention of affordable housing, I am a mortgage broker, and government agencies that purchase mortgages are always adding new programs to allow for people to buy homes with low down payments etc. Banks also are prompted by HUD ( a govt/ agency) and monitored to make sure they are not red-lining in certain neighborhoods. In New City tax abatements are given to certain neighborhoods for people who buy and develop the neighborhood.
Banks prompted by HUD are offering significantly lower interest rates to people who buy in these neighborhoods.

As far as the funds that were "pumped out" post 9/11, do you know where they actually went? Some of that money went to families of victims like my business partner who perished in Tower 2 at the WTC!
 Records were destroyed and it took a long time for insurance premiums to be sent to the families. My partners wife had breast cancer and was raising 2 children by herself, had a mortgage and medical bills.
Families in my neighborhood lost the buildings they were working in surrounding gthe towers.  Depending on the industry they were in, income dropped dramatically.

I am not syaing that the government uses its funds and out taxes always with the highest efficacy possible, but before you use such broad statements, listen to someone who was directly affected by your claims.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="destinsm">Gov&#039;t intervention is what causes the unaffordable housing in the first place... Tax laws that benefit high mortgage debt, capital gains exemption on primary home (2 out of 5 years), the fed putting the rate at 1% following 9/11... 
 
 
Affordable housing will fix itself if gov&#039;t just stopped manipulating a market that would find its fair value on its own... We are starting to see that now with lower home sales, record high inventory, and price reductions... Just hope the gov&#039;t will let the market fix itself and stop trying to manipulate our country out of every manic market we produce. If the Fed wouldn&#039;t have pumped out all that free money post NASBOMB and post 9/11 we wouldn&#039;t have this problem in the first place... God forbid our country actually feel some pain from overindulgence in the investment arenas.</blockquote> 
 
Government intervention is what drove this economy for the past 5 years post 9/11. Homebuying and home purchases and spending was the highest sector contributing to our economy post 9/11 due to that drop in interest rate. Businesses were ableto borrow money to expand etc. 
 
As far as government intervention of affordable housing, I am a mortgage broker, and government agencies that purchase mortgages are always adding new programs to allow for people to buy homes with low down payments etc. Banks also are prompted by HUD ( a govt/ agency) and monitored to make sure they are not red-lining in certain neighborhoods. In New City tax abatements are given to certain neighborhoods for people who buy and develop the neighborhood. 
Banks prompted by HUD are offering significantly lower interest rates to people who buy in these neighborhoods. 
 
As far as the funds that were &quot;pumped out&quot; post 9/11, do you know where they actually went? Some of that money went to families of victims like my business partner who perished in Tower 2 at the WTC! 
 Records were destroyed and it took a long time for insurance premiums to be sent to the families. My partners wife had breast cancer and was raising 2 children by herself, had a mortgage and medical bills. 
Families in my neighborhood lost the buildings they were working in surrounding gthe towers. Depending on the industry they were in, income dropped dramatically. 
 
I am not syaing that the government uses its funds and out taxes always with the highest efficacy possible, but before you use such broad statements, listen to someone who was directly affected by your claims.

Beach Fanatic

[QUOTE=Smiling JOe]:floor: That is funny, marcuzz.  The gov't has definitions of "affordable housing" based on avg income per household or person in the county.[/QUOTE]
Joe
Would you happen to have those definitions? I'm curious. What's the average price of a house in Walton county these days? Other than expediting developments, does the county provide any housing assistance?
BTW
That is funny, marcuzz, but I am not sure that Southwood is exactly being marketed as "affordable housing." Regardless, I've been there and thought the development was quite nice.
It's not all that easy these days to build a really *quality* home with quality materials and have it be something that Ms. Elementary School Teacher or Mr. Landscape Gardener can afford. 
I'm not talking about granite countertops or whatever, I'm just talking about a decent, well-built abode.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="Smiling JOe">:floor: That is funny, marcuzz. The gov&#039;t has definitions of &quot;affordable housing&quot; based on avg income per household or person in the county.</blockquote>Joe 
Would you happen to have those definitions? I&#039;m curious. What&#039;s the average price of a house in Walton county these days? Other than expediting developments, does the county provide any housing assistance? 
BTW 
That is funny, marcuzz, but I am not sure that Southwood is exactly being marketed as &quot;affordable housing.&quot; Regardless, I&#039;ve been there and thought the development was quite nice. 
It&#039;s not all that easy these days to build a really *quality* home with quality materials and have it be something that Ms. Elementary School Teacher or Mr. Landscape Gardener can afford. 
I&#039;m not talking about granite countertops or whatever, I&#039;m just talking about a decent, well-built abode.

[QUOTE=Cil]Joe
Would you happen to have those definitions? I'm curious. What's the average price of a house in Walton county these days? Other than expediting developments, does the county provide any housing assistance?
BTW...[/QUOTE]No, Cil, I don't have those definitions with me. 

Your average price of a house in WalCo can vary based on your basis. Is the avg price for which you are looking recent sales prices, current list price, or assessed value?

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="Cil">Joe 
Would you happen to have those definitions? I&#039;m curious. What&#039;s the average price of a house in Walton county these days? Other than expediting developments, does the county provide any housing assistance? 
BTW...</blockquote>No, Cil, I don&#039;t have those definitions with me. 
 
Your average price of a house in WalCo can vary based on your basis. Is the avg price for which you are looking recent sales prices, current list price, or assessed value?

heh
Good question.
Perhaps recent sales prices would be the most informative? Is there anything below, say, $300K? And what does the county do in terms of housing assistance?
Forgive me if this is old news, but this is what I found:
[url=knowledgeplex.org/news/163789.html]The chamber and county are loosely defining "affordable housing" as that which a worker who earns a middle class income in Walton can afford[/url]

heh 
Good question. 
Perhaps recent sales prices would be the most informative? Is there anything below, say, $300K? And what does the county do in terms of housing assistance? 
Forgive me if this is old news, but this is what I found: 
<a href="http://knowledgeplex.org/news/163789.html" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">The chamber and county are loosely defining &quot;affordable housing&quot; as that which a worker who earns a middle class income in Walton can afford</a>

beachmouse

Census data from 2000 says that the median household income for Walton County was $32,000 per year. (area was too small to be part of the 2004 sampling) Per capita yearly income was about $18,000 in 2000.  Median family income was about $37K as of 2000. 

The 2004 numbers I've found say it's up to $21K for per capita. Couldn't find the other estimates for 2004.

So figure a median family income of $42K in the county these days, and I'd define affordable as being $150K or less per unit. 

Often, affordable housing programs are defined either by a percentage of the poverty level, or a percentage of the median family income. When I worked for a place that administered HUD block grant money, our housing improvement program worked with families that were defined as 'moderate income' and moderate was defined as the family making 80% or less of what the median family income was for the area.

Census data from 2000 says that the median household income for Walton County was $32,000 per year. (area was too small to be part of the 2004 sampling) Per capita yearly income was about $18,000 in 2000. Median family income was about $37K as of 2000. 
 
The 2004 numbers I&#039;ve found say it&#039;s up to $21K for per capita. Couldn&#039;t find the other estimates for 2004. 
 
So figure a median family income of $42K in the county these days, and I&#039;d define affordable as being $150K or less per unit. 
 
Often, affordable housing programs are defined either by a percentage of the poverty level, or a percentage of the median family income. When I worked for a place that administered HUD block grant money, our housing improvement program worked with families that were defined as &#039;moderate income&#039; and moderate was defined as the family making 80% or less of what the median family income was for the area.

[QUOTE=Cil]heh
Good question.
Perhaps recent sales prices would be the most informative? Is there anything below, say, $300K? And what does the county do in terms of housing assistance?
Forgive me if this is old news, but this is what I found:
[url="http://knowledgeplex.org/news/163789.html"]The chamber and county are loosely defining "affordable housing" as that which a worker who earns a middle class income in Walton can afford[/url][/QUOTE]
Year to date, average sold price of single family detached (sfd) homes in Walton Co is [size=2]$555,353[/size]. There are a small handful of sfd homes in SoWal under $300K, but only a handful, with several more in Freeport, and more when you get up to Defuniak Springs.

So, a doctor earning $100K should be able to afford the entry level home in SoWal, but not much more, without stretching it a bit.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="Cil">heh 
Good question. 
Perhaps recent sales prices would be the most informative? Is there anything below, say, $300K? And what does the county do in terms of housing assistance? 
Forgive me if this is old news, but this is what I found: 
<a href="http://knowledgeplex.org/news/163789.html" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">The chamber and county are loosely defining &quot;affordable housing&quot; as that which a worker who earns a middle class income in Walton can afford</a></blockquote>Year to date, average sold price of single family detached (sfd) homes in Walton Co is $555,353. There are a small handful of sfd homes in SoWal under $300K, but only a handful, with several more in Freeport, and more when you get up to Defuniak Springs. 
 
So, a doctor earning $100K should be able to afford the entry level home in SoWal, but not much more, without stretching it a bit.

Though the typical young doctor has an insane dollar amount of student loans that they've got  to cover on that salary.

Though the typical young doctor has an insane dollar amount of student loans that they&#039;ve got  to cover on that salary.

[QUOTE=beachmouse]Census data from 2000 says that the median household income for Walton County was $32,000 per year. (area was too small to be part of the 2004 sampling) Per capita yearly income was about $18,000 in 2000.  Median family income was about $37K as of 2000. 

The 2004 numbers I've found say it's up to $21K for per capita. Couldn't find the other estimates for 2004.

So figure a median family income of $42K in the county these days, and I'd define affordable as being $150K or less per unit. 

Often, affordable housing programs are defined either by a percentage of the poverty level, or a percentage of the median family income. When I worked for a place that administered HUD block grant money, our housing improvement program worked with families that were defined as 'moderate income' and moderate was defined as the family making 80% or less of what the median family income was for the area.[/QUOTE]


Your definition is extremely accurate. HUD has a web site with geocoding, and you put in an address and it tells you what the minority population is, income etc. Some banks when offering financing will give preferred rates to people whose income is 80% of the median income listed. 
Here inNew York, we have Banks offering it on 165% of the medium income!
No income limits if the neighborhood is in a area with 50% or minority population. 
[url]http://app.ffiec.gov/geocode/default.htm[/url]
If you use it, you have to disable your pop up blocker and internet security temp. 
I see the  information at 2005 Est. Tract Median Family Income $61,946 
which is considered the upper limits for the area.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="beachmouse">Census data from 2000 says that the median household income for Walton County was $32,000 per year. (area was too small to be part of the 2004 sampling) Per capita yearly income was about $18,000 in 2000. Median family income was about $37K as of 2000. 
 
The 2004 numbers I&#039;ve found say it&#039;s up to $21K for per capita. Couldn&#039;t find the other estimates for 2004. 
 
So figure a median family income of $42K in the county these days, and I&#039;d define affordable as being $150K or less per unit. 
 
Often, affordable housing programs are defined either by a percentage of the poverty level, or a percentage of the median family income. When I worked for a place that administered HUD block grant money, our housing improvement program worked with families that were defined as &#039;moderate income&#039; and moderate was defined as the family making 80% or less of what the median family income was for the area.</blockquote> 
 
Your definition is extremely accurate. HUD has a web site with geocoding, and you put in an address and it tells you what the minority population is, income etc. Some banks when offering financing will give preferred rates to people whose income is 80% of the median income listed. 
Here inNew York, we have Banks offering it on 165% of the medium income! 
No income limits if the neighborhood is in a area with 50% or minority population. 
<a href="http://app.ffiec.gov/geocode/default.htm" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://app.ffiec.gov/geocode/default.htm</a> 
If you use it, you have to disable your pop up blocker and internet security temp. 
I see the information at 2005 Est. Tract Median Family Income $61,946 
which is considered the upper limits for the area.

Enjoy!!!
 
"The Real Story: More Woe at St. Joe" 
 
[url="http://www.thestreet.com/_email/comment/investing/10290401.html"]http://www.thestreet.com/_email/comment/investing/10290401.html[/url]

Enjoy!!! 
 
&quot;The Real Story: More Woe at St. Joe&quot; 
 
<a href="http://www.thestreet.com/_email/comment/investing/10290401.html" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://www.thestreet.com/_email/comment/investing/10290401.html</a>

TooFarTampa

[QUOTE=destinsm]Enjoy!!!
 
"The Real Story: More Woe at St. Joe" 
 
[url="http://www.thestreet.com/_email/comment/investing/10290401.html"]http://www.thestreet.com/_email/comment/investing/10290401.html[/url][/QUOTE]

Wow.  :eek:  :eek: Great find Destinsm. and :welcome:

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="destinsm">Enjoy!!! 
 
&quot;The Real Story: More Woe at St. Joe&quot; 
 
<a href="http://www.thestreet.com/_email/comment/investing/10290401.html" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://www.thestreet.com/_email/comment/investing/10290401.html</a></blockquote> 
Wow. 😱 😱 Great find Destinsm. and :welcome:

St. Joe is requesting a land use change for affordable housing on 40 acres north of 98, 7.5 miles east of the SoWal commerce park.

St. Joe affordable housing

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