New York Times article on WaterSound

Please do tell about the tax advantages of owning a second home.

There are none if you don't rent or you use the home more than 2 weeks per year. Even if you rent, you can only deduct expenses up to the amount of your rental income.

Second homes are a cash drain while you own them if you don't rent and many times even if you do rent. They only result in a true gain when you sell IF the gain is enough to cover your carrying costs (insurance, homeowners fees, taxes) and maintenance costs while you owned the property AND the commission you pay upon the sale of the property.

Fish you are absolutely correct if don't place property on a rental program or its not corporated property. I have owned real estate in a lot of places, and no where have I had returns to come close to match beach property. It's certainly not a risk free investment, but what is? Expenses can always be managed. You don't really need a RE agent to sell, and if you do commission's are negotitable. If you design a home that is low maintenance that helps long term expenses. If you build a home using the fortress guidelines you can even get a reduction in insurance premiums ( http://www.ibhs.org ). Second homes are only a cash drain if you are not using or enjoying it. It's basically a matter of value. People will always find value in owning beach property.

Let's see....crooked appraisals...liar's loans...cash-kick backs..."perfidious puffery"...mortgage fraud---There's no deceit to see here folks, just keep moving along.

Shelly true to some extent especially if you are a rather nieve investor in the RE market. You can be a smart investor in the stock market and get ripped off by a much larger number of people including your own broker or financial planner.

flyforfun, I'm sure 99% of us get your drift and are happy for you. Most of us who have been thru Watersound understand why you feel the way you do. Watersound is a special place and always will be. That's all that matters. You've found your paradise and that in itself is priceless.

The other details regarding the level of crowding on the beach, taxes, insurance....at this point you've figured that in to the equation and you are still in paradise.

Shelly true to some extent especially if you are a rather nieve investor in the RE market. You can be a smart investor in the stock market and get ripped off by a much larger number of people including your own broker or financial planner.

They haven't even scratched the surface on all the deceit, trickery and fraud that went on during the last couple of years in the real estate game. There are many investors who are holding RE or contracts right now that don't even realize they've been duped yet--this thing will take some time to unwind.

There are many investors who are holding RE or contracts right now that don't even realize they've been duped yet.

Please share some details.

Please share some details.

Lawsuits

With once-hot condominium markets across the country in sharp decline and many real estate professionals predicting a further weakening, some developers are facing more than a glut of unsold inventory. Angry condo buyers from Boca Raton, Fla., to San Diego are taking them to court, alleging everything from breach of contract to fraud.

Some of the lawsuits claim that the amenities featured in glossy marketing brochures and models never made it into the final product. Others involve much-hyped projects that went bust, leaving hundreds of buyers with contracts for condos that will never materialize.

In Florida, 2,557 individual complaints against developers were filed in fiscal year 2006, ended June 30, up from 1,825 two years ago, according to the state's Department of Business and Professional Regulation.
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Developer Fraud
But now their company, Sky Development Group, is at the center of a huge real estate fraud investigation that started in Citrus County - and could span the globe.

Detectives say they think Natalia and Victor Wolf slipped out of the country in October, leaving behind more than 100 victims and taking more than $20 million from fraudulent transactions.
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Mortgage Fraud
Coral Gables lawyer Brian Bieber is intimately acquainted with mortgage fraud, having represented people accused of the crime. But earlier this year, he was stunned when a broker instructed his own mother, a Broward County schoolteacher, to create phony evidence of a second job to get a mortgage for a Hallandale Beach condo.

''That mortgage broker actually suggested to my mother that she obtain a false letter of employment from me and my law firm,'' Bieber said. ``The broker went so far as to give her the explicit amount my mother needed to be earning per week and asked my mother to ask me to generate at least four pay stubs.''

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Homebuilders Fraud
Jeffery Alan Teague (also known as Jeffrey Allen Bryant), 49, pleaded guilty late Nov. 27 in federal district court to two counts of wire fraud for a scheme to defraud mortgage lenders by arranging loans to buy incomplete homes in the names of California, New York, and Florida "investors." Teague provided the lenders with false Certificates of Occupancy, stating the houses securing the loans were "completed to code" and "suitable for occupancy."
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All contributed to the crazy run-up in prices over the last couple of years--this type of crap is baked in to the price of properties bought during the frenzy.

Shelly, I don't understand what all of your issues has to do with Watersound? Do you think corruption is only limited to real estate an mortgage companies? Ninty-nine percent of the developers, contractors, real estate agents and mortgage people out their are honest hard working folks, especially the people at our beach. There are scam artist and crooks in every trade and profession! It's good they are getting caught, and I certainly hope they all spend some time in jail or spend every last penny trying to defend themselves from going to jail. Still, none of your listed items have a thing to do with the Watersound development. Are you against people making money in real estate, buying beach property or are you a stock broker?

The development is not designed around flippers. Were in a post hurricane correction, so get it cheap while you can. When the two year extension runs out, I am certain St. Joe want hesitate to buy back a few lots. It's a community built around people who want to live there full or part time.

Even when watersound east, west, north and south (condo's or barges) it will still be an awsome place. You have to remember that Chicago (5 million plus population) has less than a mile of brown sandy beach along Lake Michigan. It may take some time to find a parking place, but you still can find a place to park your body out in the sun. Having a home at Watersound, just makes finding a parking place a lot easier .

A blast from the past.

Almost 3 years later, I bet there are a lot of people WISHING Joe would buy them out now at original purchase price. ;-) I don't think Joe will ever be buying back any lots.

The "build-out" thang rarely--if ever-- applied to lots sold in 02'/03'. The "build-out" clause was added @'04 to keep the frenzy moving along during the hottest period of the bubble to give the "illusion" of exclusivity in order to justify jacking up the prices.

Cherry-picking lots to buy back will seem like a "dream" compared to the upcoming PR nightmare when "Place-Maker JOE" starts cutting corners on "promised" amentities for its "Places."

.

They have already been doing that, re: the amenities.

They have already been doing that, re: the amenities.

Such as?

Such as?

Such as charging fees for tennis, bikes, boats, etc in watercolor.

Such as charging fees for tennis, bikes, boats, etc in watercolor.

It may seem silly, but they also stopped providing towels at all pools except the beach club in Watercolor. BTW, we still had one hour of kayaking each day while we vacationed there this summer. Are you saying as a homeowner, there are now charges for using these amenities?

They have already been doing that, re: the amenities.

...I wrote that comment in Dec 2006

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Such as charging fees for tennis, bikes, boats, etc in watercolor.

It may seem silly, but they also stopped providing towels at all pools except the beach club in Watercolor. BTW, we still had one hour of kayaking each day while we vacationed there this summer. Are you saying as a homeowner, there are now charges for using these amenities?

I guess that could be construed as Joe's decision if they still ran those things. Perhaps Noble House isn't in the business of subsidizing the amenities like Joe was?

Anybody remember what a cocktail cost at the Beach Club prior to Noble House?

I guess that could be construed as Joe's decision if they still ran those things. Perhaps Noble House isn't in the business of subsidizing the amenities like Joe was?

Anybody remember what a cocktail cost at the Beach Club prior to Noble House?

No...I have never known what a cocktail cost a the WC BeachClub. Much?

Maybe , jsut maybe Noble House is a tired as I am of all those nice, "FREE" towels not being returned and finding their way up and down 30A!

No...I have never known what a cocktail cost a the WC BeachClub. Much?

Maybe , jsut maybe Noble House is a tired as I am of all those nice, "FREE" towels not being returned and finding their way up and down 30A!

True, true. They said they lost upwards of 2,400 towels last season. They now have a checkout system with charges for towels not turned in by 7:00p.m. I just wish they'd implement the same system at their community pools. It felt like a slip in customer service. It made us ask if it was the slippery slope. Like I said, silly, but still worth noting if service and perks will be lost piece by piece.

True, true. They said they lost upwards of 2,400 towels last season. They now have a checkout system with charges for towels not turned in by 7:00p.m. I just wish they'd implement the same system at their community pools. It felt like a slip in customer service. It made us ask if it was the slippery slope. Like I said, silly, but still worth noting if service and perks will be lost piece by piece.

Well the 3 remaining pools X full time staff to account for towels = a price most homeowners aren't willing to pay as an added addition to their HOA dues.

Well the 3 remaining pools X full time staff to account for towels = a price most homeowners aren't willing to pay as an added addition to their HOA dues.

I understood that to be the case. If I'm lucky enough to have that be my problem, I guess I can discuss it with them then. In the mean time, I'll bring my own towels and hope no more "perks" are lost.