Gas Prices - the REAL way to reduce them!

Did a tax on cigarettes help reduce smoking,or just make more money for the government?

First, jimmyp5, I think Joe addressed your point on taxes, and I agree with most of what he said, enough to leave it at that and avoid arguing about the nuances. Second, you can?t believe in ?supply & demand economics? and government regulation of consumer choice at the same time.

As for a tax on gas to fund alternative energy, there is enough economic incentive in energy for companies to come up with alternatives without government funding. If there isn?t, there isn?t a viable alternative to begin with.

On this comment - ?Think about it -- if you're unwilling to pay $5 a gallon, there's going to be someone richer, in this country or China, who will? ? um, didn?t you just say you believe in ?supply & demand economics?? Do you have any idea what that means?

As you said above, so much to address here, so many facets to this issue. At least you didn't to use "aholes" this time to make your points, which are made well.

I don't see price manipulation through taxation as the same as "govt. regulation of choice." In fact, the government forcing automakers to raise average mpg performance will take away choices. SJ's idea for tax incentives may be a good middle ground, making it attractive to buy a Prius or a 4-cyl. truck, but still letting me have my V12 Mercedes if I choose to.

And my last comment, maybe I was hitting too many facets in one post, but my point was to address those people talking about gas prices dropping after summer break, or those who believe we'll get back to $2 gas if we can just drill in ANWR, or if the oil companies just wouldn't be so greedy ... with the demand levels of China in India within only 3-5 years, we'll be lucky if gas is only $5 here.

I'm not simply a fan of taxation, but I do believe it's one solution here, certainly not the only one. And i agree that research isn't the only way to spend it; I'd welcome back some of the social & education programs that're so lacking here.

My main goal in this is to free us from our dangerous dependency on middle eastern oil supplies.

Introducing better-mpg vehicles will help, but not fast enough:

The U.S. has a fleet of about 210 million automobiles and
light trucks (vans, pick-ups, and SUVs). The average age of U.S. automobiles is nine years. Under normal conditions, replacement of only half the automobile fleet will require 10-15 years.

The average age of light trucks is seven years. Under normal conditions, replacement of one-half of the stock of light trucks will require 9-14 years.

While significant improvements in fuel efficiency are possible in automobiles and light trucks, any affordable approach to upgrading will be inherently time-consuming, requiring more than a decade to achieve significant overall fuel efficiency improvement.

--U.S. Dept of Energy, February 2005

My ahole comment wasn?t really about you, more on the ones who write, vote and sign off on tax increases. Any tax increases.

Taxation is government regulation of choice. See the dictionary definition ? ?2. A principle, rule, or law designed to control or govern conduct.? or the reliable, never wrong Wikipedia ? ?A regulation is a legal restriction promulgated by government administrative agencies through rulemaking supported by a threat of sanction or a fine? and ?ommon examples of regulation include attempts to control market entries, prices, wages, pollution effects, employment for certain people in certain industries, standards of production for certain goods and services.?

As for the dangerous dependence on Middle Eastern oil, I don?t really buy the veracity behind that argument. It is something that is on my radar, but I think it?s blown out of proportion and used as an end around by the climate control, anti-development crowd. It?s only marginally more credible than the arguments being thrown around by the closed border immigration types.

We produce 35% of our oil domestically. Our biggest source of foreign oil is CANADA! Combined w/ Mexico, it supplies 18.5% of our oil.

All of the Persian Gulf countries COMBINED only supply 11.1% of our oil.

OK, taxation is regulation. And tax increases = bad.

So, do we need or want to decrease our use of oil? Or does it even matter?

Do you agree with scooter's initial claim, that "The only real way to make gas prices go down is to reduce how much we use."?

I don't think it'll work, even if we do manage to decrease our own use, because I believe that over the next few years production will decline at the same time that world-wide demand soars.

As for overplaying dependence on Middle Eastern imports, hasn't anyone you know/love/raised been killed in Iraq yet, or don't you think the Middle East is on our radar because of oil?

We produce 35% of our oil domestically. Our biggest source of foreign oil is CANADA! Combined w/ Mexico, it supplies 18.5% of our oil.

All of the Persian Gulf countries COMBINED only supply 11.1% of our oil.

Interesting numbers, but do you mind sharing the source for the additional 35.4% ?

We produce 35% of our oil domestically. Our biggest source of foreign oil is CANADA! Combined w/ Mexico, it supplies 18.5% of our oil.

This is tremendous. It means that over half our present usage comes from North American sources, us & two pretty good allies. So if we could cut our usage by half, we wouldn't need to import from the Middle East, Venezuela, Nigeria, etc.

Canada 10.5%
Mexico 8.0%
Saudi Arabia 7.4%
Venezuela 7.3%
Nigeria 5.5%
Iraq 2.5%
Algeria 2.3%
Angola 2.2%
Russia 2.0%
United Kingdom 1.9%
Other 15.9%

OK, taxation is regulation. And tax increases = bad.

So, do we need or want to decrease our use of oil? Or does it even matter?

Do you agree with scooter's initial claim, that "The only real way to make gas prices go down is to reduce how much we use."?

I don't think it'll work, even if we do manage to decrease our own use, because I believe that over the next few years production will decline at the same time that world-wide demand soars.

As for overplaying dependence on Middle Eastern imports, hasn't anyone you know/love/raised been killed in Iraq yet, or don't you think the Middle East is on our radar because of oil?

I think the consumption question should be answered by individuals, rather than as a collective. For scooter's claim, that will help, as will technology (which reduces usage) and new discovery. Not sure how much worldwide demand soars, though.

I don't believe that emotion should enter the discussion on imports, but yes, I know that one of the reasons the ME is on our radar is oil.

Here's some interesting background on oil reserves, new discoveries, and peak oil .... i.e., supply & demand:

http://http://www.petermaass.com/core.cfm?p=1&mag=124&magtype=1

while this debate was raging, the price of oil increased due to the saudis reducing their drilling. they feel they have enough summer reserves. we'll be wishing for $3/gal by labor day.

I have an observation. At the same time of year for the last several years gas prices have sky rocketed. This also happens around the Christmas season, and Spring Break for schools. Now, we have the summer vacation season upon us and the prices have gone up. The price of gas will go down as soon as school starts again, mark my word. I don't think I am as stupid as those that raise the prices think I am. Don't you think these gas companies already have enough money? Greed, plain and simple is all that it is. :angry:

Yep, I believe you are correct.

Yeah, those people DESERVE $5 a gallon gas!

I am all for another grass roots effort to change to use of AC back to using it to make a person more comfortable instead of using it to convert spaces to a meat locker![/quote]

Truer words have never been spoken. I am so tired of going into a restaurant, store, movie and freezing to death. I have said many times if the business establishments would just put their thermostat on a comfortable setting no telling how many gallons of oil could be saved.

This thread reminds me of a story my son told me. He had a teacher that said he puts in $20 worth of gas a week in his vehicle and once it's gone his vehicle gets parked. My son asked him, "what do you do if you have to go somewhere," to which he promptly replied, "I take my wife's car." :lol:

Is there a way for the gov't to force the oil companies to maintain/increase their refining capability instead of just posting record profits?

Teddy Roosevelt stepped in because he was afraid of what a coal strike/the subsequent high prices would do to the country dependant on it for heat and power. Why can't the current gov't act before a hurricane, more Middle East issues make prices worse?