W and governors on CNN

I didn't see any leaders in that room, just posers. Not real comforting.

I think leadership is actually the real issue here.

I've been comparing the NO situation to 9/11.
In retrospect and reflection of how Rudy Giuliani appeared and behaved in the days after 9-11, I kept thinking that he was just focused on getting the job done, whatever the job was that needed to be done, to help the people of New York and the victims of the terrorist attack. He never once appeared to me to be schmoozing and trying to make himself look good.

So many politicians, Republican and Democrat alike, waste so much time on either spin, or mouthing the correct standardized responses.

I too have been thinking about the differences in the way the two mayors have led their cities through a disaster. Where is the mayor of NO anyway? I have only heard him via telephone. Haven't seen him walking the city streets or trying to help his citizens. Maybe I have just missed it.

I didn't see any leaders in that room, just posers. Not real comforting.

W in particular can communicate with anybody, anywhere, anytime, from anywhere, just as well as he can from WashingSwamp, or Mobile, etc. - we (you and I and everybody else) spend a bloody fortune for that connectivity. "Showing up" to "lead the .... whatever" is just posturing.

I too have been thinking about the differences in the way the two mayors have led their cities through a disaster. Where is the mayor of NO anyway? I have only heard him via telephone. Haven't seen him walking the city streets or trying to help his citizens. Maybe I have just missed it.

I heard on one newscast that the mayor of NO has been told not to walk the city streets because of safety concerns. They said that he would be in extreme danger from his own citizens. But I agree that he hasn't taken a major role in this in any form.

Sad as it is, I'm wondering what kind of "spin" they'll come up with to try to cover themselves from this mess. W will likely act like the buck stops with him while his PR people smooth it over somehow. I'm wondering how they'll ever manage that though!

Everyone has already started pointing fingers. There are no winners here...everyone will have lost. I go back to the NOLA mayor taking so long to order the mandatory evac. Didn't Bush call and plead with them to call it?? Where's Rudy when you need him?

I don't remember Rudy once complaining about not having the Feds do the work during 9/11. And that was during a foreign attack. Instead the NYPD and the FDNY went on the scene and did their jobs at the cost of many of their lives.

All I've heard Nagin and Blanco do is whine about what the Feds are not doing. And where are the NOLA cops? Some are there trying to do their jobs...but not many. Some bugged out. And some are looting.

Everyone has already started pointing fingers. There are no winners here...everyone will have lost. I go back to the NOLA mayor taking so long to order the mandatory evac. Didn't Bush call and plead with them to call it?? Where's Rudy when you need him?

I agree totally--the evacuation should have been ordered at least two days earlier. Also, if the mayor directed people to the Superdome, they should have been prepared to house the people.

I don't remember Rudy once complaining about not having the Feds do the work during 9/11. And that was during a foreign attack. Instead the NYPD and the FDNY went on the scene and did their jobs at the cost of many of their lives.

All I've heard Nagin and Blanco do is whine about what the Feds are not doing. And where are the NOLA cops? Some are there trying to do their jobs...but not many. Some bugged out. And some are looting.

60% + of Rudy's police force didn't walk off the job.

The police has always been completely corrupt. I read somewhere that upwards of 50% bugged out in some districts.

From nola.com today:

--Tourist Debbie Durso of Washington, Mich., said she asked a police officer for assistance and his response was, "'Go to hell ? it's every man for himself.'"--

Nagin is a completely ineffectual dunderhead Never had control, so it is not surprising there is none.

Even on a good day, every part of city government is completely incompetent. Postal employees are even completely unable to deliver the mail.

FEMA had to know this though.

Everyone has already started pointing fingers. There are no winners here...everyone will have lost. I go back to the NOLA mayor taking so long to order the mandatory evac. Didn't Bush call and plead with them to call it?? Where's Rudy when you need him?

The hard truth is this: New Orleans has, for years, for DECADES, known what a storm like this would do to the city. They have received millions from the fed to prepare for it. Does anyone honestly think that money went toward shoring up levees or drawing up contingency plans? Hell no.

As much as I love the city, it is a corrupt, lazy place from a local government standpoint. Instead of preparing for the inevitible, they spend their time taking kickbacks and busting public urinators during Mardi Gras.

Ray Nagin, for all his good intentions, simply is not experienced enough, or intellectually equipped to deal with this situation.

Could the fed have done more from a proactive standpoint? Probably. But the main fault lies with local, and to a lesser extent, state government.

For chrissakes, the NOPD can't even communicate with each other because all the batteries in their radios are dead. If that is not an example of piss-poor planning, I don't know what is.

Rant complete.

The hard truth is this: New Orleans has, for years, for DECADES, known what a storm like this would do to the city. They have received millions from the fed to prepare for it. Does anyone honestly think that money went toward shoring up levees or drawing up contingency plans? Hell no.

As much as I love the city, it is a corrupt, lazy place from a local government standpoint. Instead of preparing for the inevitible, they spend their time taking kickbacks and busting public urinators during Mardi Gras.

Ray Nagin, for all his good intentions, simply is not experienced enough, or intellectually equipped to deal with this situation.

Could the fed have done more from a proactive standpoint? Probably. But the main fault lies with local, and to a lesser extent, state government.

For chrissakes, the NOPD can't even communicate with each other because all the batteries in their radios are dead. If that is not an example of piss-poor planning, I don't know what is.

Rant complete.

Rant heard...the truth hurts, but it can also set you free. Thanks for your post.

The hard truth is this: New Orleans has, for years, for DECADES, known what a storm like this would do to the city. They have received millions from the fed to prepare for it. Does anyone honestly think that money went toward shoring up levees or drawing up contingency plans? Hell no....
.

Not entirely true. NOLA has been begging for support to strengthen the levees. The contraflow plan which saved thousands of lives only started in Ivan and was the result of a lot of work. Much has been done to educate people about the risks. I used to ride out storms. Because of the effort, I got out this time. The prep for this storm was very good. It is what they did afterwards that boggles the mind. The damage from the hurricane was something we could live with. Even the levee break. That might be shocking to out of towners but NOLA people know about water.

It is the damage from their corrupt, incompetent "decisions" (I doubt whether they have the mental capacity to make a decision, thus the quotes) from Monday morning on that is difficult to accept.

But, FEMA has been working with NOLA for years on this. Were they so concerned about front-end stuff they forgot about what to do after the storm?

But you are right that generally it is a completely incompetent backwater.

This situation really cannot be compared to 911. 911 did not cause mass rioting, an angry mob, or looting/beating/rape. 911 did not involve starvation or dehydration for thousands and thousands of people trapped alive and waiting for rescue. Most of 911 involved recovering and banding together after the fact. This is an entirely different situation.

A lot of it could have been prevented. But pointing fingers now will only cause further breakdown.

I too have been thinking about the differences in the way the two mayors have led their cities through a disaster. Where is the mayor of NO anyway? I have only heard him via telephone. Haven't seen him walking the city streets or trying to help his citizens. Maybe I have just missed it.

I heard his voice on television, reporting from the 13th floor of some building in NOLA.

I heard his voice on television, reporting from the 13th floor of some building in NOLA.

I heard him recently...sounds completely out of control (I understand he is stressed), cussing and pleading for help. Bless him and his city. Does anyone think these new troops will be able to restore some civility to NOLA? I am praying for their safety when I hear there are gangs of young men in the backs of trucks with guns.

I would agree that it is important to get these victims aid and restore the security of this area ASAP, and that pointing fingers is not a constructive endeavor at this time. But where is the accountability here, in general? I can understand a breakdown of NO local services, given the circumstances, better than an absence of aid from other states that were not effected or from the Federal government. FEMA...where are you in a non-election year, besides hosting doomsday conference seminars and giving speeches on news channels? One of the biggest problems in our society and political structure today is the accusation that those who demand accountability or disagree with public policy are unpatriotic or are "finger pointing" or playing politics. Well, politics is where both freedoms and local protections begin and end. It is far more than dueling pundits on cable television, for those who want information and accountability for their tax dollars. The name of the game lately, however, is shut-up-and-put-up. The aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans may be a huge wake-up call for our country.

Yesterday, I was waiting on the San Francisco waterfront outside the Ferry Building for my ferry home. A vicious fight broke out between a restaurant worker and a bicyclist. The public managed to subdue the fighters, but security arrived too late to arrest the guys, because the security chief was inside showing his force how to spot shoplifters who might cadge a banana or a loaf of bread from a Ferry Building food retailer. The aggressor blithely pedaled away on his bike. What would happen if a real terror attack occurred at the Ferry Building or on one of the ferries, where all passengers have their bags searched before boarding? I am thinking that we are far more vulnerable domestically for lack of vital funding, resources, and local security forces (including National Guard) than is advisable in this day and time or than the average citizen is aware of. If it's true that "they are watching," then are we? Wake up, America. There is a message in every crisis and this one may go far behind levies and building codes.

Everyone has already started pointing fingers. There are no winners here...everyone will have lost. I go back to the NOLA mayor taking so long to order the mandatory evac. Didn't Bush call and plead with them to call it?? Where's Rudy when you need him?

It was Max Mayfield and the National Hurricane Center that was pleading with Naglin to call for mandatory evacuations now.

Not sure how Rudy would do with this situation, but it might be a good idea to lend out Jeb! for a little while. He showed so much more decisiveness and leadership last year during the storms than anyone I've seen this year.

This situation really cannot be compared to 911. 911 did not cause mass rioting, an angry mob, or looting/beating/rape. 911 did not involve starvation or dehydration for thousands and thousands of people trapped alive and waiting for rescue. Most of 911 involved recovering and banding together after the fact. This is an entirely different situation.

A lot of it could have been prevented. But pointing fingers now will only cause further breakdown.

my thoughts exactly BD - 9/11 and Katrina cannot be compared (in nearly any respect).

I am sure there are some really good NO cops, firefighters and emergency responders (I've know a few good/dedicated ones) - but from what I've seen, there were just not enough of them to even begin to do the job. and they are currently experiencing the devastating aftermath, along with everyone else left in NO. (yes, there is corruption - but that is another matter).

I believe that we can not begin to imagine what the situation for local emergency responders has been like and is like right now. Hopeless, I would guess - and this in itself is devastating to the souls of emergency responders - to be ineffective in the face of disaster.

Thank God for all those thousands and thousands of guards, troopers, emergency responders, medical personnel, bus drivers, rescuers, red cross volunteers and everyone in communites across the US giving and doing so much!

I would agree that it is important to get these victims aid and restore the security of this area ASAP, and that pointing fingers is not a constructive endeavor at this time. But where is the accountability here, in general? The aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans may be a huge wake-up call for our country.

I am thinking that we are far more vulnerable domestically for lack of vital funding, resources, and local security forces (including National Guard) than is advisable in this day and time or than the average citizen is aware of. If it's true that "they are watching," then are we? Wake up, America. There is a message in every crisis and this one may go far behind levies and building codes.

Well said Donna.

Who will replace the Guard/Reserve/Active military being sent to the area if/when they were supposed to replace people in Iraq?

THAT will be an interesting shuffle considering we're talking about 30,000+ military members being sent to the area.

my thoughts exactly BD - 9/11 and Katrina cannot be compared (in nearly any respect).

I am sure there are some really good NO cops, firefighters and emergency responders (I've know a few good/dedicated ones) - but from what I've seen, there were just not enough of them to even begin to do the job. and they are currently experiencing the devastating aftermath, along with everyone else left in NO. (yes, there is corruption - but that is another matter).

I believe that we can not begin to imagine what the situation for local emergency responders has been like and is like right now. Hopeless, I would guess - and this in itself is devastating to the souls of emergency responders - to be ineffective in the face of disaster.

Thank God for all those thousands and thousands of guards, troopers, emergency responders, medical personnel, bus drivers, rescuers, red cross volunteers and everyone in communites across the US giving and doing so much!

Amen Tootsie! I hope that once we are past this (or more importantly, NOW) we can hear and see some accounts of the heroes that have risked everything and lived through hell to do their jobs and help people. Doctors, nurses, policemen, and private citizens, who have so far gone largely unnoticed and unappreciated in the midst of the evil that seems to take the spotlight. We can still turn this into a story of hope and compassion.

"Doctors, nurses, policemen, and private citizens, who have so far gone largely unnoticed and unappreciated in the midst of the evil that seems to take the spotlight. We can still turn this into a story of hope and compassion."
Agreed, BeachDreamer.

I just hope that it will also be a learning experience.

Has anyone seen this article? It is from the Civil Engineering section of Scientific American and is eerily prescient.
Drowning New Orleans

Not entirely true. NOLA has been begging for support to strengthen the levees. The contraflow plan which saved thousands of lives only started in Ivan and was the result of a lot of work. Much has been done to educate people about the risks. I used to ride out storms. Because of the effort, I got out this time. The prep for this storm was very good. It is what they did afterwards that boggles the mind. The damage from the hurricane was something we could live with. Even the levee break. That might be shocking to out of towners but NOLA people know about water.

It is the damage from their corrupt, incompetent "decisions" (I doubt whether they have the mental capacity to make a decision, thus the quotes) from Monday morning on that is difficult to accept.

But, FEMA has been working with NOLA for years on this. Were they so concerned about front-end stuff they forgot about what to do after the storm?

But you are right that generally it is a completely incompetent backwater.

T2M, I respect your opinion because I know you have live there, but the NHC provided three days of advance warning about this storm. The city engineers know the vulnerable spots in the levees. They had time to mobilze and at least attempt to address the problem. As would be expected from NOLA government, they did nothing. Had Nagin ordered the evac 24 hours earlier, much of this could have been avoided.

T2M, I respect your opinion because I know you have live there, but the NHC provided three days of advance warning about this storm. The city engineers know the vulnerable spots in the levees. They had time to mobilze and at least attempt to address the problem. As would be expected from NOLA government, they did nothing. Had Nagin ordered the evac 24 hours earlier, much of this could have been avoided.

The hurricane damage (property) could not have been avoided. This has been predicted for years and people have been urged and urged and urged:

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/?/washingaway/

It was going to come, sooner or later. You seem to think we are a bunch of stupid dissolute yokels who don't get off our duffs and put away our shotguns until someone makes something mandatory. I am no defender of the government, but early Sat am the city went into high alert, at least those that had a brain. Nagin has this bizarre view that all evacuations are voluntary, since it is impossible for many to evacuate. There is this bizarre reluctance to use the Dome as a shelter, after an unpleasant near riot a decade or so ago there. Do I agree with it? No. Would a "mandatory" evacuation earlier have helped? I doubt it. The same people would have stayed. The statement "Leave now. We beg you" on Sat morning is pretty close. That didn't work.

Louisianans are very idiosyncratic about leaving their homes. Never had figured it out.

I think other people are right that deconstructing this right now is perhaps a bit premature. You may rest assured that many stranded, pissed off lawyers in the Big Easy are itching to raise many of the issues you raise.

Forgot to add--evacuations in this area are governed by a regional agreement, designed to ensure contraflow as a chance to work. NOLA proper is the last to go.