Oh, thank God -- proof that this can't be Skunky. He left Pensacola at noon and had to drive to Pace to see patients at 12:30.
I really didn't think he was 6th Gen, but now I have no doubts. Whew!
Replies
37
SoWal Expert
Ramadan starts today so it will remain to be seen how long we keep making "progress". Typically it's the high season for suicide bombings.
Beach Fanatic
My other criticism of the ?Surge? is that it is a belated anti-insurgency doctrine being initiated long after the situation has deteriorated into the early stages of a Civil War. An anti-insurgency doctrine is not what you want to use in a civil war, as it in effect throws fuel on the fire by helping one side versus another.
Just one more thought on this subject to help clarify.
A counter-insurgency doctrine used in a civil war effectively arms one side in that civil war. So while it is true that this adds fuel to the fire; the other part of my original statement that a counter-insurgency doctrine is not what you want in a civil war, is not entirely correct.
It depends on what kind of outcome you want to see from the conflict.
SoWal Insider
OK, thanks. I just wanted to see if you still fashioned yourself smarter than people who do this for a living. 85% of Americans can't identify the Senate Majority Leader. 70% think we should do away with the electoral college. 31% can't identify the VP. I don't put a lot of faith in opinion polls, especially when executed by the BBC. Bottom line, if given the choice to trust a decorated four star general who finished top in his class at West Point, obtained a PhD from Princeton, literally wrote the book on counter-terrorism, and has been doing this very, very well for all his life, or an internet message board poster known as "Uncle Timmy", I choose the former.The General is a career officer so equal to the task of being a competent manager, and so cunning a politician as to rise to the top of his field. Generals by definition, aren't prone to admit defeat, especially with no traditional battle taking place. For you to equate honesty with accomplishment shows your lack of knowledge of the military. With few exceptions, top ranked commissioned officers could best be described as having a nature to do anything to rise upward. Planting a knife in a colleague's back, or stalling the inevitable is mainstream behavior for uniformed control-freak few who call themselves generals. I would rather ask someone who has no stake in the outcome, such as a U.N. observer, about the wisdom of continued U.S. military presence. Had we listened to Hans Blix, our country could have saved the better part of a trillion dollars, 4 thousand U.S. soldiers lives, countless innocent Iraqis lives, our reputation, and all the energy and hand wringing, fighting, and attention diverted from helping those for whom we could obtain a positive outcome.http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=amt_SUH0Wwqw&refer=home
Edited
Skunky
I thought Saddam kicked Blix outta the IRQ in violation of his surrender terms. Or something like that.
SoWal Insider
I would take Saddam as dictator of Iraq right now if we could go back, and save all those wasted lives. I'll bet you would too! Or do we need to "get it on" with Iran now? How many WMDs did Blix report Saddam had? How many did WMDs did Cheney, Powell, or Rumsfeld say he had? Who sold WMDs to Saddam in the 80s? Blix or Rumsfeld. The truth is sometimes brutal.
SoWal Insider
The General is a career officer so equal to the task of being a competent manager, and so cunning a politician as to rise to the top of his field. Generals by definition, aren't prone to admit defeat, especially with no traditional battle taking place. For you to equate honesty with accomplishment shows your lack of knowledge of the military. With few exceptions, top ranked commissioned officers could best be described as having a nature to do anything to rise upward. Planting a knife in a colleague's back, or stalling the inevitable is mainstream behavior for uniformed control-freak few who call themselves generals. I would rather ask someone who has no stake in the outcome, such as a U.N. observer, about the wisdom of continued U.S. military presence. Had we listened to Hans Blix, our country could have saved the better part of a trillion dollars, 4 thousand U.S. soldiers lives, countless innocent Iraqis lives, our reputation, and all the energy and hand wringing, fighting, and attention diverted from helping those for whom we could obtain a positive outcome.http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=amt_SUH0Wwqw&refer=home
Bob, I have to agree with you regarding opinions of independent agents reporting results, ie; the 3 most recent indy reports,
Every independent report on the ground situation in Iraq shows that the surge strategy has failed.
GAO report, 9/4/07
Jones report, CSIS, 9/6/07
NIE report (Can't find link to this one)
(and I would like to add that everyone involved in these reports initially met with Petraeus et al.)
however, and I'll admit, I have no military experience, nor have any relatives serving or served, but realistically do you believe that Petraeus can lead and honestly take his men into battle without believing that the plan he was employed to devise by the WH will result in the least lost of life? I don't believe Petraeus believes that he can militarily alone accomplish anything without Iraqi political cooperation. Perhaps he prefers to be in the fold watching out for the troops best interests? The fact is that any General who approached the WH and outright said " a surge won't work wouldn't have a job.
Edited
SoWal Insider
Bob, I have to agree with you regarding opinions of independent agents reporting results, ie; the 3 most recent indy reports,What battle? Where? Against whom today or tommorrow? This is the biggest f'up I've ever witnessed in my life. We are completely stuck in a Rubik's Cube of Hell of our own making. The history of our sick meddling in the Middle East does not start and end with 9/11. It takes thought to consider what led to this revenge war. It takes humility to admit what we have perpetrated on the country formerly known as Iraq. The funny thing is that we never owned up to the insanity of Vietnam.
Every independent report on the ground situation in Iraq shows that the surge strategy has failed.
GAO report, 9/4/07
Jones report, CSIS, 9/6/07
NIE report (Can't find link to this one)
(and I would like to add that everyone involved in these reports initially met with Petraeus et al.)
however, and I'll admit, I have no military experience, nor have any relatives serving or served, but realistically do you believe that Petraeus can lead and honestly take his men into battle without believing that the plan he was employed to devise by the WH will result in the least lost of life? I don't believe Petraeus believes that he can militarily alone accomplish anything without Iraqi political cooperation. Perhaps he prefers to be in the fold watching out for the troops best interests? The fact is that any General who approached the WH and outright said " a surge won't work wouldn't have a job.
SoWal Insider
What battle? Where? Against whom today or tommorrow? This is the biggest f'up I've ever witnessed in my life. We are completely stuck in a Rubik's Cube of Hell of our own making. The history of our sick meddling in the Middle East does not start and end with 9/11. It takes thought to consider what led to this revenge war. It takes humility to admit what we have perpetrated on the country formerly known as Iraq. The funny thing is that we never owned up to the insanity of Vietnam.
Can't argue with you regarding the above Bob. I should have used the word combat in lieu of battle.
My point was regardless of a General's ego, Petraeus didn't perpetuate all the events leading up to this Rubik's Cube. The AF are simply doing what they are told to do. He can't force the Iraqi "gov't" or lack of to cooperate politically.
SoWal Insider
Foreign affairs sticky... Don't engage in regime change for 50 years in a region you want cheap oil from and expect no repercussions Fight wars when you have no other choice, see Pearl Harbor. 9/11 did not justify Iraq. Regardless of what the Mafia does,you really can't get satisfying revenge in this world. If democracy isn't in most of the governments of the world, don't even try it in Islamo World. The U.S. is not the center of the Universe. There exists enough technology to do away with imported oil rather quickly. Bin Laden is in Pakistan, so go get him now! When you make a huge mistake, admit it, and move on, because everyone's already laughing at you.
SoWal Insider
Can't argue with you regarding the above Bob. I should have used the word combat in lieu of battle.The current Iraqi government is no more real than the South Vietnamese government was. I don't expect the general to tell the truth when there's no payoff. We are stuck in our stupidity. Oily, isn't it?
My point was regardless of a General's ego, Petraeus didn't perpetuate all the events leading up to this Rubik's Cube. The AF are simply doing what they are told to do. He can't force the Iraqi "gov't" or lack of to cooperate politically.
SoWal Insider
The current Iraqi government is no more real than the South Vietnamese government was. I don't expect the general to tell the truth when there's no payoff. We are stuck in our stupidity. Oily, isn't it?[/quote]
Bush's hair did look oily tonight... but my favorite part of his address tonight was when he slipped up and said " passing budget".
SoWal Insider
Checking your forum account
Please wait while we verify your forum account.