Need advice for a new laptop

Our tech geeks swear by Apples. Anybody??

I talked my mom into getting an Apple a while back, and she hated it so much because she is very experience with PCs. I too tried playing with it and could not function properly. I bought her a Compaq laptop for Mother's Day. Do you want her Apple? I know some Apple lover's swear by them, mostly for their graphic capabilities.

Thanks SJ. Lots of people try to convince me to get an apple, but we're so tied into DOS (is that what the other kind are called?) at work that it's just hard to switch over. I know people swear by Apple and I think they're right for the most part. It's supposed to be much easier to work with media, photos, video, etc. You may be able to get someone to buy your Apple through EBay or another thread on this site. Especially if you include an SJ photo as a screen saver...

I think we're pretty much creatures of habit. But I must say that I did take a risk and switched from Ofoto (it's now called something else) to Snapfish this week for printing photos. Did you know you can make bound hard-cover photo books with print as well through Snapfish and other online photo services? They look quite nice and would make wonderful gifts.

I bought that one at Wally World last sat, works great!

OhioBeachBum, Paula's request for a laptop would equate to a inexpensive Dell desktop[$300-400]. You stated you've dealt w/ hundreds of bad Toshibas. What time frame are you speaking of? We're not talking emachines here. Toshiba is a mainstream marketer of laptops w/ the $797 version offered by WalMart representing a rather good value. Is not P4 overkill for surfing,word processing? Your $1200 recomendation is no doubt a great machine but is 50 percent above the Toshiba in price. Just wondering,as I like to learn also.

I'll let you know how the Dell Latitude D610 works out. It's probably going to cost between $1200 - 1400 with the different things I need (extra battery). But, since my workplace recommended it and since they'll help me with any problems (and may not be as quick to handle other manufacturers since they won't be as experienced in them), the D610 is a no brainer. Also, the people I've seen using it seem to like it a lot.

I tried out the Dell D600 and my fingernails (not long ones either) got caught in the keys now and then, but I guess I'll learn the right touch. I am an extremely speedy typist so the keyboard matters a lot. I read on reviews that there can be a slight hissing with the ear phones on the D610 as well -- some people hear it and some people don't.

I bought an HP Pavilion zd8000...love it! wide screen, wireless. Battery doesn't last too long, but I dont know how long is 'long'. no problems yet, except my husband the painter tried using it when he had paint on his wrist and didn't know it.....and I'm cleaning kid fingerprints off the screen everyday as well. circuit city, ft. walton.

OhioBeachBum, Paula's request for a laptop would equate to a inexpensive Dell desktop[$300-400]. You stated you've dealt w/ hundreds of bad Toshibas. What time frame are you speaking of? We're not talking emachines here. Toshiba is a mainstream marketer of laptops w/ the $797 version offered by WalMart representing a rather good value. Is not P4 overkill for surfing,word processing? Your $1200 recomendation is no doubt a great machine but is 50 percent above the Toshiba in price. Just wondering,as I like to learn also.

Today (Mon AM) is my first touch on the board for several days (blistering EOW last at work and an event saturated weekend). Soon as I saw through what's on my plate this AM, I'll follow up ... ;-)

Today (Mon AM) is my first touch on the board for several days (blistering EOW last at work and an event saturated weekend). Soon as I saw through what's on my plate this AM, I'll follow up ... ;-)

set me straight o wise one

set me straight o wise one

Drop that on the flowers and they'll grow Really Big. ;-)
Coupla points, first:

• My personal (hands-on) bias against Toshiba notebooks is dated.
• I personally don't use a notebook (at least today) - for a lot of reasons - fodder for a separate post if anyone's inclined. Any suggestions I provided are based on input from friends (sometimes my hands on to fix problems) & coworkers, and info based on corp purchasing trends (mine and others to which I have indirect personal access).
• Any individual's personal experience should override what I have to say. You feel you have a good thing going, by all means stay with it (way to many subjective factors are involved for "absolutes").

I'll take a brief stab at what appears to be 3 questions in your earlier email:
Toshiba had a stellar opportunity for a berth in corp America when IBM was the only other practical alternative (late '90s thru 2K). They failed miserably on that score 6 years running - my hands on period - combinations of design, hardware, and software issues. The fact that they are now predominately a "WalMart" product speaks volumes. And don't get me wrong - I buy a lot of stuff, electronics included, at WalMart & such places - just not computers (at least not yet).

My "buy Dell" bias on the notebook leveraged corp purchasing info (mine and a couple of other substantial operations). Big outfit has to to aim for lowest practical Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) through a 3 year practical lifespan, providing adequate performance for all tiers of users (e.g. developers, accounting, marketing, etc.). TCO is all direct/indirect cost factors (purchase price, ongoing maint., etc.). User down, for whatever reason, is massively expensive - in the vicinity of $500/hr and up depending on how many/much adjacent people/work impacted. More analysis in this area than I (or any other individual) could ever hope to bring to bear on the question. I know what we're doing, couple other smaller & larger outfits same - good enough for me - that simple.

Why notebooks cost more (than desktops) & processor speed much less even then:

• Power. Notebooks have much less to work with. Processors, disk drives, displays eat a bunch of it. Complex power management hardware/software. Processsors, faster speed, more power.
• Size/Durability. Expensive to downsize. Lighter weight, smaller stuff that must be more durable than equiv. desktop stuff.
• Heat. Faster the processor, more heat generated that must be dissipated - rapidly. Limits to how much heat can be disapated in very small space, especially considering bullet #1. Take a look at the ducts/fans dedicated to cooling the processor inside your 3GHz+ P4 desktop (and don't touch the heat sink - it'll burn the crap out of your little pinkie ;-) ).
• Extra hardware & software (complex/durable) to handle all those cute PCMCIA cards. See how your desktop behaves if you jerk out one of the (internal) cards - just kidding - don't do that!

P4 vs Celeron: At same processor clock speed (GHz), differences in internal cache, supporting chipsets and/or internal/external bus speeds that ultimately translate to rubber on the road for even seemingly simple tasks. Intel charges different money for each for a d*** good reason.

"Just email and word processing..." Like or not, MS didn't come up with a reasonably stable OS until WinXP, and that OS chews up a s***load of processor & mem just to wake up and say howdy. IMHO, 3Ghz P4 proc and about 1GB of memory, disable a bunch of usless services, and the OS is finally running so it doesn't get in the way of doing simple stuff (OK, so you can get away with maybe 1.3GHz or thereabouts and maybe 512KB of mem but you'll spend more time waiting on the machine ).

Got pix in that email? Chews major proc to yutz that around and "display" it. You use MSWord? Saws through about 15MB of mem just to run up and give you a single blank document - go figure. All that draggy-droppy stuff chews processor and mem like it's going out of style.

Final analysis, lot like car buying. Plenty of subjectivity in the decision (unless you're buying Lexus or MB or Jag or Rolls, etc. ;-) all those "will it run for 200K miles" questions are a given at those price points). Funny - folks will agonize over a $300 or so price delta on a computer (admitedly with a projected zero street value in 5 years) but don't think twice about $50-60K on an auto that'll be worth maybe a fourth (or less) that in the same span - $40K vs $300 - go figure that. :?:

Would advise against Dell. My son sells to Dell and their only concern
is the product lasts 91 days. Have owned 2 Apple laptops and never had
one bit of trouble. Very user-friendly. Beautiful little machines.

Thanks for the info. Best Buy also carries Toshiba laptops. Impressive displays/fit and finish. I agree with the heat/power issues, and for that reason would purchase a Celeron, an extra RAM stick, and not ask the machine to do more than two tasks at once. However, I own 3 Dell P4 desktops with extended warranties. No problems, best value.

I ordered my D610 yesterday from work. I'll let you know what I think about it when I get it. I've been using an old Dell Latitude C510/C610 for over 3 years now (and I think it was already used when I started using it -- it's a loaner from work) and, though the letters have peeled off of several keys, it's still going and going and going. I've travelled with it quite a bit and can't say I'm the most careful packer (sometimes I pack it in my suitcase between clothes and without a case, thought I've never checked in my suitcase when it's like that). Never had any problem with it in software or hardware.

I agree with the heat/power issues, and for that reason would purchase a Celeron, an extra RAM stick, and not ask the machine to do more than two tasks at once.

...except that when you think you're asking it to do just one "task", it's really doing dozens, each involving several thousand "things"... ;-)

Thanks for the info. Best Buy also carries Toshiba laptops. Impressive displays/fit and finish.

I'll have to take a more detailed look when I get the time (as I mentioned earlier, I'm no longer a hands-on expert in the notebook arena). Ultimately I'd expect notable differences at a fundamental level with a price point difference in the 40%+ range, because (a) the overwhelming majority of the electronics in any of these boxes is more or less single-sourced and (b) computer manufacturers operate on notoriously thin margins, all things considered.

Generally, the bulk of what you're paying for in a machine (put the display aside for a moment) is the microprocessor & supporting chipsets. Desktop micros run (retail) from about $95 [CeleronD 2.8GHz 533MHz FSB 256K L2 cache] to $660 [P4 3.8GHz 800Mhz FSB 2M L2 cache] (there's another on the higher end at about $1100 and a couple dozen on the lower end - older socket styles). Notebook micros run $99 [CeleronM 1.4GHz 400MHz FSB 1MB L2 cache] to $468 [Pentium M 2.1 GHz 533 FSB 2MB L2 cache]. Contrast: $461 buys a desktop micro P4 3.66GHz 800MHz FSB 2MB L2 cache.

All the technobabble numbers (+disk drive type/speed + memory type/speed) translate more or less to how fast the machine responds when you click the idiot rodent. I'm kinda picky in that department, since I use the machines mostly for work - the fewer of my finite number of heartbeats I spend doing work, the better.

I don't really know if one company has much of an edge on any other, regarding customer service or quality and longevity of the product.

bingo - up to a point (some use better parts than others).

I see the technology being outdated much more rapidly than the computers are breaking. Consumerism at its finest.

bingo again (Moore's Law), except displays don't follow that curve.

I would really like to see more userfriendly upgrades at a cost effective price point and easy enough for all of us to carry out, requiring no more knowledge than ejecting the button for the old and inserting the new gadget, eg batteries, microchip, hard drive, etc.

...but then the idiot proof modular packaging would cost more than the device it encloses (What's that quote: "Make an idiot proof fill_in_the_blank and only an idiot will want to use it..."). Seriously - There's a whole gaggle of the population out there that's still considers setting the time on their 'ole VCR a challenge.

I'd suggest the "consumer pillage" in the electronics industry pales in comparison to many other things. An example: How would you feel about your car dealer clipping 6% off the sale? ;-)

OBB,

Can you do me a favor and take this stupid MCSE test I have to take next week? Something tells me you could smoke this thing. I'm a country boy trying to learn a new language in record time and it ain't workin' too well. :shock:

Would advise against Dell. My son sells to Dell and their only concern
is the product lasts 91 days. Have owned 2 Apple laptops and never had
one bit of trouble. Very user-friendly. Beautiful little machines.

:clap_1: :clap_1: Yeah! I thought I was the only mac user on board!!! :clap_1:

I'd definitely get a mac if my workplace didn't prefer to support Dells. But we'll most likely get our daughter a mac when she heads off to high school next year (and I'm sure we'll borrow it now and then). Unless, of course, the macs are too expensive. It's pretty easy to get an inexpensive windows laptop these days.

...except that when you think you're asking it to do just one "task", it's really doing dozens, each involving several thousand "things"... ;-)

I'll have to take a more detailed look when I get the time (as I mentioned earlier, I'm no longer a hands-on expert in the notebook arena). Ultimately I'd expect notable differences at a fundamental level with a price point difference in the 40%+ range, because (a) the overwhelming majority of the electronics in any of these boxes is more or less single-sourced and (b) computer manufacturers operate on notoriously thin margins, all things considered.

Generally, the bulk of what you're paying for in a machine (put the display aside for a moment) is the microprocessor & supporting chipsets. Desktop micros run (retail) from about $95 [CeleronD 2.8GHz 533MHz FSB 256K L2 cache] to $660 [P4 3.8GHz 800Mhz FSB 2M L2 cache] (there's another on the higher end at about $1100 and a couple dozen on the lower end - older socket styles). Notebook micros run $99 [CeleronM 1.4GHz 400MHz FSB 1MB L2 cache] to $468 [Pentium M 2.1 GHz 533 FSB 2MB L2 cache]. Contrast: $461 buys a desktop micro P4 3.66GHz 800MHz FSB 2MB L2 cache.

All the technobabble numbers (+disk drive type/speed + memory type/speed) translate more or less to how fast the machine responds when you click the idiot rodent. I'm kinda picky in that department, since I use the machines mostly for work - the fewer of my finite number of heartbeats I spend doing work, the better.

I deserved that. I meant I would not run more than two processor/memory intensive programs including the OS]at the same time. I found your info useful, as your experience/use far exceeds what the average home user would usually encounter.

I'm a country boy trying to learn a new language in record time and it ain't workin' too well. :shock:

I grew up knee-deep in manure myself. ;-) You'll do fine - no different than woodworking...

OBB,
Can you do me a favor and take this stupid MCSE test I have to take next week? Something tells me you could smoke this thing.

3-1 says I'd b**** it up. It's unfortunately an exercise in memorization & regurgitation (as you've no doubt discovered by now) - and 8 months from now if you don't do a given xyz every day, you'll have to look it up in MSDN docs again anyway. ;-) Certs will get you through the door for a new gig easier, though - and some companies (mine's one) pay folks a bonus for passing a cert test (& pay for the test if you pass). Now I might could pass a Java cert test (part of what I do every day). Let me know how it sorts out, in case I ever find time to go there...

I deserved that. I meant I would not run more than two processor/memory intensive programs including the OS]at the same time. I found your info useful, as your experience/use far exceeds what the average home user would usually encounter.

No ding intended... At home, I do the same thing as everybody else (mostly), I just have much less patience. ;-) And when I do have to go out an buy a new something, I'm pretty much in the same boat as everybody else - the landscape changes way too fast to keep track of it all.

Paula-
I love my Dell Inspiron notebook with Windows XP and 15" screen. I always buy the "refurbished" models at a discount. These are systems that have been returned for whatever reason. Anything wrong gets replaced before shipping out, (so effectively, they've been tested twice, not just once), and the warrantee is still 3 years, just like the "new" ones. Never had a problem. Oh, actually, one time the modem wasn't working. Literally the next day a new one was on my doorstep via FedEx. Same with a hard drive that I lost to the trojan virus. Had a new one arrive in one day and they helped me install it on the phone.

Unless you process video daily, I can't see why you would switch to Mac at this point...you probably have all Windows software already. (I believe the whole "Apples are easier" line is just a marketing thing. I've had jobs where I had equal access to both machines, and found myself always choosing the PC over the Mac. They both have learning curves, they're just different. I find Macs as frustrating as some find PCs, so it's all in your frame of reference.)

For the record, I generally run several high memory programs simultaneously (Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Word, Firefox, Flash, etc) and almost never crash.

In a graphic setting -- nothing beats a mac. I too have run graphic programs on both platforms and the mac outperforms the pc everytime. Depending on the end result - print vs. web or video, most service bureaus (ie. film house/print shop) will perfer macs. A 2 gig file will just rip better out of mac softerware than pc.

You'll do fine - no different than woodworking...

Yeah, but I ENJOY woodworking....

Yeah, but I ENJOY woodworking....

... the Holy Grail - getting paid big bundles of $$ for doing what you enjoy ... I gotta find somebody who'll pay me to hang out on the beach!

They both have learning curves, they're just different. I find Macs as frustrating as some find PCs, so it's all in your frame of reference.)

Kinda what I was talking about before (a lot of subjective). Comfortable with a thing, keep at it - sorta "if it feels good keep doing it..." (not you Otter, you'll go blind )

For the record, I generally run several high memory programs simultaneously (Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Word, Firefox, Flash, etc) and almost never crash.

Ahhhhh - You're the one! "Resist the dark side (flash) of the force, Luke!" ;-)