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Universal Health Coverage

wrobert avatar
Beach Fanatic
5,711 views
I think everyone in the US of A should be able to get affordable health insurance, regardless of pre-existing conditions or whether or not s/he has ever been on antidepressants, for goodness sakes. I think Hillary is the only candidate who really cares about that issue.

So if you are a Doctor, do you think the government should be able to tell you what to charge and whom to see as a patient?

If you are healthy, should the government be able to force you to buy health insurance?

Is it fair that you pay a set premium on health insurance when you live a healthy lifestyle, yet your neighbor, who does not, pays the same amount?

Replies

73
30A Skunkape avatar
Skunky
#2
Does anyone honestly think a government issued card guarantees decent healthcare? I fear that many providers will not want to be involved with such a beast and simply practice cash for service medicine. As it stands now, a baby insured by medicaid that comes in for a routine visit is a money loser for me...I am given about $3 to see the baby, answer questions, do paperwork and dictate, so roughly $3 for 45 minutes of work and that does not include the cost of equipment, staff, etc. All I urge people to do is be careful what they wish for...
Camp Creek Kid avatar
Christini Zambini
#3
Use this link: http://www.mittromney.com/Issues/healthcare to see Mitt's innovative approach to revamping the American healthcare system. He had success in Mass. in offering healthcare to over 300,000 previously uninsured patients.

Mitt advocates using principles of free enterprise and better fiscal responsiblity (no waste) to improve the system and make it accessible to everyone. In contrast, Hilary wants to offer healthcare to everyone using the weak system that is already in place. As Dr. Skunky pointed out, Medicaid is no good already.
hnooe avatar
Beach Fanatic
#4
GOP you make a good point-- personally, I am an organic food eating, daily gym exercising, health "nut." My biggest pet peeve is people with bad cholesteral who eat Redi Whip and ice cream and ALSO take expensive anti-cholesteral drugs!!!! Why should I pay for their blissfully ignorant bad habits...

This is a hot topic issue though..this thread could go on forever, thanks for bring it up.

My View: The health Care system in the US is run by special interests pure and simple. Now which party will have the courage to fight them?

The Democrats better start fighting or they may lose the battle.

The problem in selling Universal Health Care is not making it seem like a tax increase. *Ensuring the quality doesn't decrese for the average American (avoid wait times etc). Controlling the pharmaceutical industry(you guys pay 60% on average more then the rest of the world epr dollar spent). Decide who controls Health Care spending the states or the federal governement. Finally, it's going to cost to set up. *

Now all of these problems have solutions for example in Canada health Care is RUN by the provinces but the Federal government partially funds it and provides standards for the provinces to meet. *

Now all the problems have solutions but the hardest to mount will be tackling the special interests that like the money rolling in.....you'll have ad campaigns calling universal health care the end of research in the US, you'll have families in waiting room's with a sick child with a sign saying 5 hour wait etc....it'll be nasty, but it can be done!
Camp Creek Kid avatar
Christini Zambini
#5
[Now all of these problems have solutions for example in Canada health Care is RUN by the provinces but the Federal government partially funds it and provides standards for the provinces to meet. *
QUOTE]

If Canada's healthcare system is so great, why do the Canadians come to the U.S. for specialists? This summer and fall in Alberta, the hospitals were full and they send dozens of pregnant women 200 to 300 miles south to Montana to deliver babies. The hospital WOULD NOT accomodate these women who were about to give birth, but it worked out fine because they had the U.S. to fall back on. Who will we fall back on? Are you prepared to go to Mexico for surgery (for that matter, Mexicans who can afford it also come to the U.S.)

You are a healthy person and don't like to pay for other peoples' health problems. In that same line of thinking, my husband is self employed therefore we pay for all of our own health insurance. I don't like to pay for someone else's health insurance when people, who could afford insurance CHOOSE not to buy it. There are people who can't afford it, and reforms have to be made. However, we should think of health insurance as a necessity--something we pay monthly just like our power bill.

There are obviously problems in the the healthcare industry, but the U.S. has the highest quality hospitals, the best medical schools, the most innovative research, and the most motivated doctors in the world.

Edited

Mango avatar
SoWal Insider
#6
GOP you make a good point-- personally, I am an organic food eating, daily gym exercising, health "nut." My biggest pet peeve is people with bad cholesteral who eat Redi Whip and ice cream and ALSO take expensive anti-cholesteral drugs!!!! Why should I pay for their blissfully ignorant bad habits...

First, I'm confused on your stance. Secondly, there are people who due to heredity factors or chronic diseases who may have health issues outside their control as contributing factors to high cholesterol or weight issues, etc.
Lastly, I would ask before anyone starts a new thread, they do a search for past threads. There has already been a lengthy discussion about this topic that's quite informative.
http://sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=13600&highlight=universal+healthcare

Edited

30A Skunkape avatar
Skunky
#7
Wouldn't it make sense to tax the living bejeezum out of organic foods and divert that money to federal healthcare? After all, people who spend all that money on expensive organic foods are obviously rich so it will not hurt them to pay for poor people to get health insurance. Right?
hnooe avatar
Beach Fanatic
#8
First, I'm confused on your stance. Secondly, there are people who due to heredity factors or chronic diseases who may have health issues outside their control as contributing factors to high cholesterol or weight issues, etc.
Lastly, I would ask before anyone starts a new thread, they do a search for past threads. There has already been a lengthy discussion about this topic that's quite informative.
http://sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=13600&highlight=universal+healthcare

Health care as a "personal responsility issue/preventative issue"--whoa--maybe yet another thread.

Absolutely, if there is inherited cholesteral problems in one's family they should get whatever assistance they need, be it Private or Universal--BUT if they still choose Redi Whip, Ice cream on top of their pre-exiting condition, then I have a real problem with that.
30A Skunkape avatar
Skunky
#9
Health care as a "personal responsility issue/preventative issue"--whoa--maybe yet another thread.

Absolutely, if there is inherited cholesteral problems in one's family they should get whatever assistance they need, be it Private or Universal--BUT if they still choose Redi Whip, Ice cream on top of their pre-exiting condition, then I have a real problem with that.

So you would be comfortable forcing people with high cholesterol or type II diabetes to eat what you (or some government 'expert') think is appropriate for them?
elgordoboy avatar
Beach Fanatic
#10
Wouldn't it make sense to tax the living bejeezum out of organic foods and divert that money to federal healthcare? After all, people who spend all that money on expensive organic foods are obviously rich so it will not hurt them to pay for poor people to get health insurance. Right?

So you would be comfortable forcing people with high cholesterol or type II diabetes to eat what you (or some government 'expert') think is appropriate for them?
I agree with you on both of these. The tax on the organic food would be a fairer way of distributing the burden to those who deserve and can afford it. Forcing people to eat certain things may be tough to actually do but you are on the right track.
Camp Creek Kid avatar
Christini Zambini
#11
Forcing people to eat certain things may be tough to actually do but you are on the right track.

You might as well be in the Soviet Union circa 1980.
Beach Lover
#12
You got off subject fast. How about we tax the war profiteers and use that money to pay for health care? I don't think that people in this country should go without care because they don't have money, while dubya pisses away the entire countries fortune on a failed policy of lies.
hnooe avatar
Beach Fanatic
#13
So you would be comfortable forcing people with high cholesterol or type II diabetes to eat what you (or some government 'expert') think is appropriate for them?

Yes, in my world view.
JustaLocal avatar
Beach Fanatic
#14
You got off subject fast. How about we tax the war profiteers and use that money to pay for health care? I don't think that people in this country should go without care because they don't have money, while dubya pisses away the entire countries fortune on a failed policy of lies.

:floor:
Jennifer Steele avatar
Beach Fanatic
#15
Wouldn't it make sense to tax the living bejeezum out of organic foods and divert that money to federal healthcare? After all, people who spend all that money on expensive organic foods are obviously rich so it will not hurt them to pay for poor people to get health insurance. Right?

I agree with you on both of these. The tax on the organic food would be a fairer way of distributing the burden to those who deserve and can afford it. Forcing people to eat certain things may be tough to actually do but you are on the right track.

Right...and make sure the poor folks will never be able to afford organic food, thereby ensuring they will always need federal health care?

I am in no way rich, but we do spend our dollars on organic foods whenever we have the option and would hardly be able to afford it if they were even more expensive.
Jennifer Steele avatar
Beach Fanatic
#16
You got off subject fast. How about we tax the war profiteers and use that money to pay for health care? I don't think that people in this country should go without care because they don't have money, while dubya pisses away the entire countries fortune on a failed policy of lies.

Yes, I would say this is fairer than taxing organic foods...
hnooe avatar
Beach Fanatic
#17
Wouldn't it make sense to tax the living bejeezum out of organic foods and divert that money to federal healthcare? After all, people who spend all that money on expensive organic foods are obviously rich so it will not hurt them to pay for poor people to get health insurance. Right?

I actually love that Idea--and tax cigarettes and alcohol through the roof too!
Banned
#18
You got off subject fast. How about we tax the war profiteers and use that money to pay for health care? I don't think that people in this country should go without care because they don't have money, while dubya pisses away the entire countries fortune on a failed policy of lies.

despite what filmaking genius michael moore is espousing to the world, america has had socialized medical care for years. it's called the military medical system.

anyone who has experienced healthcare under the UK's NHS or the military care knows the the government having any say in healthcare does not serve the public best. many military families know that while having a base of care is important there are many cases where living in a country where privatized care is available is crucial. furthermore, most americans are so naive about what socialized medical care means. i can't tell you how many friends and family who have suffered at the hands of the NHS. waiting years to get tests that could have prevented their deaths including routine testing like pap smears, mammograms or bloodwork for heart disease. when you live in the uk or europe and see people suffering for years from treatable and preventable illnesses simply because we have no option but to wait, then perhaps you won't live in such a rose-colored view of europe. when you see a 28 year old die of stomach cancer because he can't even get an appt with a specialist, or a young woman in her 30s die of breast cancer because ob appts aren't scheduled excpet for every 3 years or when you see a guy who has been addicted to morphine for 15 years because a hernia got misdiagnosed you'll understand. and these aren't RARE or unusual cases. these are TYPICAL.
30A Skunkape avatar
Skunky
#19
Right...and make sure the poor folks will never be able to afford organic food, thereby ensuring they will always need federal health care?

I am in no way rich, but we do spend our dollars on organic foods whenever we have the option and would hardly be able to afford it if they were even more expensive.

You have to realize that my tongue was planted firmly in cheek. Usually if you wait long enough somebody will come up with the proposal to tax cigarettes, booze, fatty foods, etc to pay for health care (and sure enough, Hnooe came through for us). Of course, this leads to a slippery slope of somebody else determining what we should and should not do in order to remain healthy. I know tobacoo kills people, and I urge my patients to stop smoking and offer to help...but some people actually derive pleasure from smoking...I don't get it, I hate the way cigarettes smell, but who am I to tell somebody else what they should or shouldn't do? So why not propose taxing organic foods? Of course it is absurd...and it ought to scare the living hell out of everyone that while I joke about it, some people (on this board no less) readily admit they are comfortable with somebody dictating how we should behave in the name of health.
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#20
I don't know about sin-taxing high cholesterol, high-fat, or "unhealthy" items, but there are companies who give rewards for healthy behavior. A friend's health insurance gives her a refund/bonus if she goes to the gym a certain number of times a month.

There are a lot of unhealthy behaviors that are universally agreed upon, so I would definitely be for proactive credits or discounts that encourage healthy behavior. A lot of people will be in a great deal of medical trouble due to obesity and poor eating and exercise habits.
elgordoboy avatar
Beach Fanatic
#21
You have to realize that my tongue was planted firmly in cheek. Usually if you wait long enough somebody will come up with the proposal to tax cigarettes, booze, fatty foods, etc to pay for health care (and sure enough, Hnooe came through for us). Of course, this leads to a slippery slope of somebody else determining what we should and should not do in order to remain healthy. I know tobacoo kills people, and I urge my patients to stop smoking and offer to help...but some people actually derive pleasure from smoking...I don't get it, I hate the way cigarettes smell, but who am I to tell somebody else what they should or shouldn't do? So why not propose taxing organic foods? Of course it is absurd...and it ought to scare the living hell out of everyone that while I joke about it, some people (on this board no less) readily admit they are comfortable with somebody dictating how we should behave in the name of health.
My tongue was in there with Skunkape's. I was yanking his chain a bit by acting as if his statements were his opinions/suggestions.
wrobert avatar
Beach FanaticAuthor
#22
Is this not something that competition and free markets could help? For instance, you can not open another hospital in this county without getting a certificate of need from the folks in Tallahassee. A lot of people in nowal are unhappy with hospital care in the area, and there is a place that has expressed interest and has financing to open up another health care hospital like facility. Yet without this certificate of need, they are prevented. Of course, the argument is that this is protecting the current hospital, but why is it that they enjoy this sort of monopolistic protection?
Camp Creek Kid avatar
Christini Zambini
#23
I don't know about sin-taxing high cholesterol, high-fat, or "unhealthy" items, but there are companies who give rewards for healthy behavior. A friend's health insurance gives her a refund/bonus if she goes to the gym a certain number of times a month.

There are a lot of unhealthy behaviors that are universally agreed upon, so I would definitely be for proactive credits or discounts that encourage healthy behavior. A lot of people will be in a great deal of medical trouble due to obesity and poor eating and exercise habits.

But where do you draw the line? Obesity is not the only health risk. What about sexual behaviors? Unprotected sex is risky so are people going to get discounts for practicing safe sex--who makes the judgement and how is it regulated? Having children decreases a woman's risk for ovarian cancer--are women who don't have children going to be penalized? Women who DO have children increase their risk of pregnancy complications and put themselves at risk so are they going to be penalized? The examples are endless.

I agree that it is a great for private companies to offer incentives for healthy lifestyles--this is already done in the life insurance business. However, this should not be the government's job (and I know that is not what you are saying either) because pretty soon the government is regulating every facet of our lives.
Jennifer Steele avatar
Beach Fanatic
#24
My tongue was in there with Skunkape's. I was yanking his chain a bit by acting as if his statements were his opinions/suggestions.

You have to realize that my tongue was planted firmly in cheek. Usually if you wait long enough somebody will come up with the proposal to tax cigarettes, booze, fatty foods, etc to pay for health care (and sure enough, Hnooe came through for us). Of course, this leads to a slippery slope of somebody else determining what we should and should not do in order to remain healthy. I know tobacoo kills people, and I urge my patients to stop smoking and offer to help...but some people actually derive pleasure from smoking...I don't get it, I hate the way cigarettes smell, but who am I to tell somebody else what they should or shouldn't do? So why not propose taxing organic foods? Of course it is absurd...and it ought to scare the living hell out of everyone that while I joke about it, some people (on this board no less) readily admit they are comfortable with somebody dictating how we should behave in the name of health.

I'm so glad. Sorry...I was a little slow yesterday.
Bobby J avatar
Beach Fanatic
#25
IMO the government should not take over health care. The only cure the government should be involved with is helping eliminate all the special interest associated with health care. The private sector will fix the rest. Listen to what skunkape says, "watch what you wish for".

I use to do insurance physicals on the road and people would often compare insurance cost being more then a car payment. They would be upset and talk about the government fixing it. I still wonder why people think the government can fix it? We need our government to fix the corruption involved in health care not take it over and dictate how we all live our lives.
DuneAHH avatar
Beach Fanatic
#26
IMO the government should not take over health care. The only cure the government should be involved with is helping eliminate all the special interest associated with health care. The private sector will fix the rest. Listen to what skunkape says, "watch what you wish for".

I use to do insurance physicals on the road and people would often compare insurance cost being more then a car payment. They would be upset and talk about the government fixing it. I still wonder why people think the government can fix it? We need our government to fix the corruption involved in health care not take it over and dictate how we all live our lives.

I agree... it's always baffling to me why we'd ever think a gov't bureaucracy that can't even seem to manage the current menu of "gov't issues" would miraculously be effective administrators of such a large & complex issue as health care? Scares the zuppa out of me. I don't personally have any brilliant ideas for the fix ... but I know what I DON'T want; and that's MORE intervention by the illusive federal "THEY".

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