Economic Stimulus

Explain how someone buying basic necesities is different than you and the wife having the tasting menu at the Ritz B'head in relation to the economic impact. Seems to me money is fungible maybe I am wrong on this.

The discussions I have heard and articles I have read describe the basic necessities as household bills (rent, electric, healthcare,food), and it is predicted that many will use the money to pay on credit card bills, loans, etc. I am sure there will be plenty of people heading to Best Buys with their check, but probably not enough to "save" our economy!

I would much rather have a check from Citizens. How many identity thieves will get checks? So I'm basicly getting back tax money that was illegaly taken from me in the first place. Thank you FDR!!!!

Elgordoboy:

As I understand, it was never the intent of the Founding Fathers to create a governmental system that provided food, clothing and shelter for the people of the nation. The welfare state is a Marxist concept.

I, like you, have compassion for those facing difficult times. However, I don't believe it is the job of our government to solve all of our problems. Local communities, organizations and churches are best suited for caring for those facing difficulties.

Back on point... expanding welfare services would not stimulate the economy. Funds transfered to those barely making ends meet, would end up going to pay for basic necessities and would have little, if any, effect on the overall economy.

Little Fish

They condoned a system that did just that for many people or for 3/5ths of a people anyway.

And while we are on the subject of stupid government, look at farm subsidies that are skyrocketing at a time when corn, soybeans etc are at an all time high.

Help me understand this one, please!!
Somebopdy with some real intelligence, please!!!

The word "welfare" is in the Constitution and means
Welfare welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being.

Interpret it as you wish.
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Although I have no doubt that food stamps are abused by some people, there are studies that show that the majority of people collecting them are families with children, the disabled and the elderly. I used to shop for an elder woman who received food stamps because she couldn't leave the house, so maybe IBD, that man you saw was doing the same, maybe not.
I used to use her food stamps and also contribute to the bill and buy her better foods not on the list she gave me.

There is evidence to support that adding additional food stamp aide would add stimulus to the economy....

CBO: The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has rated a temporary increase in food stamp benefits highly for cost-effectiveness, short lag time, and relative certainty about the policy impact. See “Options for Responding to Short-Term Economic Weakness,” CBO (January 2008).
USDA Research : Based on USDA analysis, it is estimated that each $5 of federal food stamp benefits generates nearly twice that in economic activity. See USDA research.
Feldstein: “Liberal economists say boosting food stamps is one of the most efficient ways of pumping money into the economy, an idea surprisingly embraced by GOP economist Martin Feldstein at a Brookings Institution forum on Thursday.” See “Dems Eye Tax Rebates, Fatter Benefits,” by Andrew Taylor, AP, 1/11/08.
Summers: On January 16th, former Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers told the Joint Economic Committee, “On the spending side the measures most likely to be effective are temporary increases in benefits perhaps for the long term unemployed and food stamp recipients.” See his testimony.
Brookings Economists: “Increase in food stamps: Advocates of the proposal, including Brookings Institution economists, say giving food stamp recipients 20 percent more aid for six months could be administered easily and quickly, and would be targeted at families most vulnerable to a recession.” See “Options for Jumpstarting the Economy,” by Heidi Glenn, column accompanying “Economists Examine Stimulus Options,” by Jim Zarroli, NPR, 1/10/08.
Bernanke: In response to strong statements and questioning from Representative Jim McGovern (D-MA),“Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said on Thursday that helping those with low and moderate income could stimulate the economy. ‘There is good evidence that cash that goes to low and moderate income people is more likely to be spent in the near term,’
________________________________________________________________

As far as the increase in FNMA and Freddie Mac loan limits, it's still yet to be seen how they will price the "jumbo" loans, so I wouldn't get too excited yet. My suspician is that it will just perhaps give a psychological boost to the credit markets, but they will most likely price in the risk.

I am sure there are plenty of people that take advantage of our welfare and unemployment system, but let's not forget our other welfare mess- farm subsidies. There are lots of wealthy landowners that are not farmers and they are receiving big checks. Cheaters and takers comes from all economic classes and races.

Great info in your post, Mango.

A total election year BS package. Will not create one new job or stimulate the economy. Nancy Pelosi's comments revealed what a true idiot she is, as if she needs to prove it once again.

I just think that this economic stimulus plan is one of the most stupid ideas that anyone has proposed in a long time. I voted for Bush. Remember when it was cool to have a "W" sticker on your SUV?

sounds like Bush is trying for a approval rating stimulus. this hand out will do little or nothing for the economy and is short term thinking at its very best, IMO. thanks again Dubya! you rock! :roll: (congress too!)


of course I know nothing about economics whatsover. maybe I am completely wrong here. I just don't get how the handout is going to improve our economy in the long term. hey, let's all go blow some more money!! yoo hoooo!!! walmart here we come!!

I just think that this economic stimulus plan is one of the most stupid ideas that anyone has proposed in a long time. I voted for Bush. Remember when it was cool to have a "W" sticker on your SUV?

no.

;-)

A total election year BS package. Will not create one new job or stimulate the economy. Nancy Pelosi's comments revealed what a true idiot she is, as if she needs to prove it once again.

Hey Goofer- from the coverage I have seen, Pelosi didn't like the package?

It's $300 for individuals who do NOT pay taxes SJ as long as their income tax filed is at least $3K.

Nobody has yet clarifed for me which line on the tax return needs to be 3K.
Earned income, as in wages or self employment? Total income? Adjusted gross income? Taxable income?
I don't deal drugs and I don't get any govt. assistance. My earned income was less than 3K. My total income was way more than that, but the majority consisted of investment income, which is not considered "earned."
My bottom line taxable income was 0. I wiped out the whole thing, except for some social security tax I did pay, with huge uninsured medical bills which I paid out of pocket and repairs to a rental unit, also paid out of pocket.
Wanna bet I get squat?
And even if I wasn't getting squat, I don't like the stimulus package. I don't need another Chinese toaster.

I would much rather have a check from Citizens. How many identity thieves will get checks? So I'm basicly getting back tax money that was illegaly taken from me in the first place. Thank you FDR!!!!

Good point about identity thieves. WOnderful. just wonderful, I had not thought of that.

I am sure there are plenty of people that take advantage of our welfare and unemployment system, but let's not forget our other welfare mess- farm subsidies. There are lots of wealthy landowners that are not farmers and they are receiving big checks. Cheaters and takers comes from all economic classes and races.

Jenny, I have to say that is a well stated comment.
Yea!! We agree!!!

The word "welfare" is in the Constitution and means
Welfare welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being.

ALSO:
wel?fare (wěl'f?r') Pronunciation Key
n.

1. <LI minmax_bound="true">
   1. <LI minmax_bound="true">Health, happiness, and good fortune; well-being. <LI minmax_bound="true">Prosperity. <LI minmax_bound="true">Financial or other aid provided, especially by the government, to people in need.
   2. Corporate welfare.
   <LI minmax_bound="true">Welfare work. <LI minmax_bound="true">
   1. Financial or other aid provided, especially by the government, to people in need.
   2. Corporate welfare.

That is where I have a problem when people are not in need....

Interpret it as you wish.
_______________________________________________________________
Although I have no doubt that food stamps are abused by some people, there are studies that show that the majority of people collecting them are families with children, the disabled and the elderly. I used to shop for an elder woman who received food stamps because she couldn't leave the house, so maybe IBD, that man you saw was doing the same, maybe not.
I used to use her food stamps and also contribute to the bill and buy her better foods not on the list she gave me.

Mango, maybe so, I can run with that. However, I have seen that same senerio too many times.

A total election year BS package. Will not create one new job or stimulate the economy. Nancy Pelosi's comments revealed what a true idiot she is, as if she needs to prove it once again.

What a waste of $$ for no econimc stimulus...
Nancy Pelosi, Queen of Idiot

of course I know nothing about economics whatsover. maybe I am completely wrong here. I just don't get how the handout is going to improve our economy in the long term. hey, let's all go blow some more money!! yoo hoooo!!! walmart here we come!!

I almost could not read this. Maybe I can go and buy some reading glasses with my $$.....

Nobody has yet clarifed for me which line on the tax return needs to be 3K.
Earned income, as in wages or self employment? Total income? Adjusted gross income? Taxable income?
I don't deal drugs and I don't get any govt. assistance. My earned income was less than 3K. My total income was way more than that, but the majority consisted of investment income, which is not considered "earned."
My bottom line taxable income was 0. I wiped out the whole thing, except for some social security tax I did pay, with huge uninsured medical bills which I paid out of pocket and repairs to a rental unit, also paid out of pocket.
Wanna bet I get squat?
And even if I wasn't getting squat, I don't like the stimulus package. I don't need another Chinese toaster.

I'll put your name in the hat for the drawing.

Mango, maybe so, I can run with that. However, I have seen that same senerio too many times.

I'll have to start shopping somewhere with less physically attractive women than the San Destin Publix if I am to pay attention to what people are paying with...any suggestions on where the fannies don't look so good and I can go research? (shallow I know but the testosterone will run out soon)

I'll put your name in the hat for the drawing.

Thanks

One; how can you justify giving rebate checks to those who pay no tax? This essentially means they are rebating my tax payments to those who don't pay. Unfair at best.

Because they are the ones that will cash it at the same store they spend it...

Two; the stimulus package will come too late to have an effect on the economy. By the time checks are out, it will be clear the economy is already recovering. Another example of wasteful government spending.

You're right. By June, we will hopefully be climbing out of this slowdown/recession. Hopefully.

Two; raising the limits on loans that Fannie and Freddie can purchase to $725K (in some markets) should help to alleviate the current credit crisis and bring down the cost of jumbo mortgages. This could be big. If rates begin coming down due to Banks repricing risk, maybe more buyers would consider new purchases of homes.

Has anyone heard if this will raise the actual limit for 'jumbo's'? Our area could really benefit from such a move.

Three, I was glad to hear they did not extend unemployment benefits or boost food stamps. This would have been a joke.

Saw today that first time unemployment claims dropped last week.

As far as the increase in FNMA and Freddie Mac loan limits, it's still yet to be seen how they will price the "jumbo" loans, so I wouldn't get too excited yet. My suspician is that it will just perhaps give a psychological boost to the credit markets, but they will most likely price in the risk.

If they raise that limit, it just may stimulate interest in some bargain property locally.

I'll have to start shopping somewhere with less physically attractive women than the San Destin Publix if I am to pay attention to what people are paying with...any suggestions on where the fannies don't look so good and I can go research? (shallow I know but the testosterone will run out soon)

My wife won't let me shop there. She makes me go to Kelley's...

Explain how someone buying basic necesities is different than you and the wife having the tasting menu at the Ritz B'head in relation to the economic impact. Seems to me money is fungible maybe I am wrong on this.

I believe the difference is that true necessities will be bought anyway, and will not further stimulate the economy. Having a tasting menu at the Ritz is a luxury, and that is additional money being pumped into the economy.

My wife won't let me shop there. She makes me go to Kelley's...

Bless your heart.

Just curious -- do you repackage those GreenWise before you get to the house? lol

The stimulus package is dumb!

Anyone who wants to give their refund to a good cause, I suggest Children in Crisis or Shelter House.

$600-$1200 can buy a lot of food, clothing and emergency shelter for people who REALLY need it.

Too bad that they don't just let you take it off your taxes, which are due in April. That would be faster than putting a check in our hands in June, then again, it wouldn't seem like virtually free money if they did that.

Bless your heart.

Just curious -- do you repackage those GreenWise before you get to the house? lol

Busted.

I just tell her I slaughtered another baby cow.

Too bad that they don't just let you take it off your taxes, which are due in April. That would be faster than putting a check in our hands in June, then again, it wouldn't seem like virtually free money if they did that.

Amen, brother. But thankfully there's the option of filing for an extension.

The sad thing is that it's not going to change anyone's lifestyle, and there ain't no free lunch -- we'll all eventually pay it back.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view), we won't be getting any checks at our house.

Your welcome.

I don't agree with the rebate stimulus at all for anyone.

I wish I could endorse my economic stimulus check to:
"Lawyers Representing the People for the Impeachment of Bush, Cheney and Nancy Pelosi"​

Now there would be a good use of the money.

Huh? Impeach for what?
You get what you vote for and there aint one politician who hasnt made promises they havent kept.
Impeachment is meant for serious serious stuff
Like lying under oath

im?peachment n.
Usage Note: When an irate citizen demands that a disfavored public official be impeached, the citizen clearly intends for the official to be removed from office. This popular use of impeach as a synonym of "throw out" (even if by due process) does not accord with the legal meaning of the word. As recent history has shown, when a public official is impeached, that is, formally accused of wrongdoing, this is only the start of what can be a lengthy process that may or may not lead to the official's removal from office. In strict usage, an official is impeached (accused), tried, and then convicted or acquitted. The vaguer use of impeach reflects disgruntled citizens' indifference to whether the official is forced from office by legal means or chooses to resign to avoid further disgrace.
Word History: Nothing hobbles a President so much as impeachment, and there is an etymological as well as a procedural reason for this. The word impeach can be traced back through Anglo-Norman empecher to Late Latin impedicre, "to catch, entangle," from Latin pedica, "fetter for the ankle, snare." Thus we find that Middle English empechen, the ancestor of our word, means such things as "to cause to get stuck fast," "hinder or impede," "interfere with," and "criticize unfavorably." A legal sense of empechen is first recorded in 1384. This sense, which had previously developed in Old French, was "to accuse, bring charges against."


Now to the subject of the stimulus. The free market has the beauty of making a lot of people a lot of money when the market will bear it.
When the marke cant bear it, then there is a slowdown
Are we there yet?
Employment: High
Inflation : Low
Interest Rates: Low

These are the true indicators of a recession and we just arent there.
Yes, the stock market can dive
Yes they can whine about it. To playcate to their whining is not advisable since they make $$ when the market is up or down


yes its election year but those passing this (bush) are not up for election
So just for once there is no incentive to get re-elected

Me, I take it and run thanks ever so. Would be a better sales pitch to take off some of the fed taxes of the GAS prices since thats the larger part of all the prices we pay in the first place

Hey Goofer- from the coverage I have seen, Pelosi didn't like the package?

Nancy wanted food stamp increases, which is probably a laudable gesture, but has nothing to do with stimulating the economy or creating jobs. Nancy is married to a VERY rich guy so she can afford to be a LIMOSINE LIBERAL with our money. Food stamps will be increased in another bill shortly. I have no problem with this at all. As an aside, when the food stamp program first began in the late 1960's, I was a college student living more than 50 miles from my home. I was elegible to get food stamps !!! Whether I went to the welfare office to get them will remain my secret..;-)..but at the time I was 20 years old, able bodied, employed part-time AND getting $30 a week from the old man. Life sure was easy back in them thar days.