Payoff?

DO you honestly believe the comment about Vietnam ??

The truth is that Vietnam has been McCain's springboard. I do not believe having the misfortune of being a POW makes you an automatic hero, nor does it qualify you to be President. I've known WW2 POWs who went through worse and saw more of their buddys die than Senator McCain. To a man they only reluctantly would speak of their experiences, and would never ask for favor or adulation. I would think McCain's war experiences would tend to make him more cautious about conflict, as WW2 made Eisenhower do everything possible to avoid conflict. Quite the contrary, McCain uses every opportunity to say that our country will be engaged in worldwide war with Islamofascists for many years to come, and that we should steel ourselves for more wars. This is precisely the type of thinking that I view as a greater threat to this country than any external threat, real or perceived. FDR waited until Pearl Harbor to jump into the fray. No wise man goes looking for the fight. It's so easy to act tough and start things, and it's virtually impossible to end conflict on your own terms. Vietnam was the blueprint for stupidity, and McCain was at ground zero. Our country has managed to step in it again, and I can't honestly tell the difference between GW and McCain other than McCain wants to wield the bigger hammer.

Highly doubtful. I think Rudy was relieved that the agony and microscopic examination ended. I am sure it was extremely painful to him regarding the scruitiny his then "mistress" and now wife, received. Politics is extremely low and no one or nothing is immune to the personal attacks. I think Rudy would make a great AG or an advisor of some sort. He certainly doesn't need money.

Well, he was reportedly running low on cash, and maybe since FL didn't pan out for him, he gave in. He really didn't carry many voters, and I don't think he had any delegates, so maybe you are right. His votes would likely be split with the liberal ones going to McCain and the fiscal conservatives going to Romney.

The truth is that Vietnam has been McCain's springboard. I do not believe having the misfortune of being a POW makes you an automatic hero, nor does it qualify you to be President. I've known WW2 POWs who went through worse and saw more of their buddys die than Senator McCain. To a man they only reluctantly would speak of their experiences, and would never ask for favor or adulation. I would think McCain's war experiences would tend to make him more cautious about conflict, as WW2 made Eisenhower do everything possible to avoid conflict. Quite the contrary, McCain uses every opportunity to say that our country will be engaged in worldwide war with Islamofascists for many years to come, and that we should steel ourselves for more wars. This is precisely the type of thinking that I view as a greater threat to this country than any external threat, real or perceived. FDR waited until Pearl Harbor to jump into the fray. No wise man goes looking for the fight. It's so easy to act tough and start things, and it's virtually impossible to end conflict on your own terms. Vietnam was the blueprint for stupidity, and McCain was at ground zero. Our country has managed to step in it again, and I can't honestly tell the difference between GW and McCain other than McCain wants to wield the bigger hammer.

Bob I found your respnse totally educational, sobering and stimiulating. I now have a more 3 dimensional view of McCain in this area. I too am wondering now about his nation building (or should I say nation policing) committment to our placement in the very center of the Islamic world. I do like the FDR analogy which harkens back to older, etablished military principles and standards, and that does hold true, but...
Are Vietnam/Iraq type engagements the real way to fight and nuetralize Islamic terrorism in 2008? It seems now so out dated and old school to me. It will /has been impossible to end these types of involvement on our own selfishly defined terms.

Maybe the US interest in the middle east has more to do with preparing for future take over of the access to the highly demanded oil.

Personally I thought that FDR blundered by not standing with Churchill in 39 and telling Hitler to back off.

Personally I thought that FDR blundered by not standing with Churchill in 39 and telling Hitler to back off.

and when he turned away thousands of Jews trying to escape Hitler, by coming to the US. They were sent back to Hitler, and many were reportedly murdered after returning to Germany.

The truth is that Vietnam has been McCain's springboard. I do not believe having the misfortune of being a POW makes you an automatic hero, nor does it qualify you to be President. I've known WW2 POWs who went through worse and saw more of their buddys die than Senator McCain. To a man they only reluctantly would speak of their experiences, and would never ask for favor or adulation. I would think McCain's war experiences would tend to make him more cautious about conflict, as WW2 made Eisenhower do everything possible to avoid conflict. Quite the contrary, McCain uses every opportunity to say that our country will be engaged in worldwide war with Islamofascists for many years to come, and that we should steel ourselves for more wars. This is precisely the type of thinking that I view as a greater threat to this country than any external threat, real or perceived. FDR waited until Pearl Harbor to jump into the fray. No wise man goes looking for the fight. It's so easy to act tough and start things, and it's virtually impossible to end conflict on your own terms. Vietnam was the blueprint for stupidity, and McCain was at ground zero. Our country has managed to step in it again, and I can't honestly tell the difference between GW and McCain other than McCain wants to wield the bigger hammer.

Well thought out response, Bob, even though I disagree with much of what you say. Today, individuals are encouraged to give voice to their emotionally traumatic experiences. McCain was a young man when Vietnam was on the front burner and had nothing to do with policy and decisions that led to fiasco. We live in the nuclear age and "waiting for another Pearl Harbor to jump into the fray", could lead us to annihilation. I completely disagree with our war of choice in Iraq....but we are where we are. I believe McCain is the most qualified to be president.

goofer44, I agree with what you say about individuals being encouraged to give voice to their emotionally traumatic experiences. It was at least 25 years before I would talk about any of my experiences during my two tours in Vietnam and it has been very cleansing for me emotionally to now do so and I do when asked. Bob, I know you'll read this post and I believe your take on McCain is totally in error. I am also surprised that you are a "registered Republican" because in almost none of your post is there anything even closely resembling a Republican attitude. John McCain is a moderate Republican. Rush Limbaugh can't stand him because he will not bow to the far right wing of the party. On the other hand, he appeals to me and others like me because we know he will listen to his advisors, change his mind when necessary and always act in the best interest of Americans who are working hard to support their families and saving as best they can for their future needs. Those not looking for handouts but to get ahead in the world by doing their best to be of service to theirs, fellow citizens and country. It has nothing to do with being a POW, which recently to some, seems to be a dirty phrase. It has to do with bringing this United States back to some semblence of normality as far as everyday life is concerned. Yes, we need change alright but not necessarily the change that some envision. That change should be to enable people to stand up for themselves and be able to advance in life by the dictates that has made America great. To take care of those unable to do so and make sure they have a quality of life worth living. All others, as far as I'm concerned, need no support from me or my tax dollars and may leave these shores at any time it is convenient for them to do so. I know this may seem idealistic however I am still able to be hopeful it will come to pass.

goofer44, I agree with what you say about individuals being encouraged to give voice to their emotionally traumatic experiences. It was at least 25 years before I would talk about any of my experiences during my two tours in Vietnam and it has been very cleansing for me emotionally to now do so and I do when asked. Bob, I know you'll read this post and I believe your take on McCain is totally in error. I am also surprised that you are a "registered Republican" because in almost none of your post is there anything even closely resembling a Republican attitude. John McCain is a moderate Republican. Rush Limbaugh can't stand him because he will not bow to the far right wing of the party. On the other hand, he appeals to me and others like me because we know he will listen to his advisors, change his mind when necessary and always act in the best interest of Americans who are working hard to support their families and saving as best they can for their future needs. Those not looking for handouts but to get ahead in the world by doing their best to be of service to theirs, fellow citizens and country. It has nothing to do with being a POW, which recently to some, seems to be a dirty phrase. It has to do with bringing this United States back to some semblence of normality as far as everyday life is concerned. Yes, we need change alright but not necessarily the change that some envision. That change should be to enable people to stand up for themselves and be able to advance in life by the dictates that has made America great. To take care of those unable to do so and make sure they have a quality of life worth living. All others, as far as I'm concerned, need no support from me or my tax dollars and may leave these shores at any time it is convenient for them to do so. I know this may seem idealistic however I am still able to be hopeful it will come to pass.

Try this one on. I think Mitt Romney would make ten times the President that McCain would. McCain nearly flunked out of the Naval Academy because of that smug "I am the son of a Captain and screw you" attitude that was on full display in the New Hampshire debates. Romneys got more IQ than McCain ever could hope to have, and as the Republican party is busy dog-piling Mitt, it only convinces me that war hawks control the party. Half of the state of the union speech was about Iraq, and two thirds of our country can see GW's has no clothes on. McCain is more of the same, and now he enjoys ducking the immigration fiasco he used to support. He's the wrong guy at the wrong time, and he's not a true Repub. Hillary will eat his lunch on domestic issues, and that never ending war stance will not play to a country borrowed up to it's eyeballs in recession.

Try this one on. I think Mitt Romney would make ten times the President that McCain would. McCain nearly flunked out of the Naval Academy because of that smug "I am the son of a Captain and screw you" attitude that was on full display in the New Hampshire debates. Romneys got more IQ than McCain ever could hope to have, and as the Republican party is busy dog-piling Mitt, it only convinces me that war hawks control the party. Half of the state of the union speech was about Iraq, and two thirds of our country can see GW's has no clothes on. McCain is more of the same, and now he enjoys ducking the immigration fiasco he used to support. He's the wrong guy at the wrong time, and he's not a true Repub. Hillary will eat his lunch on domestic issues, and that never ending war stance will not play to a country borrowed up to it's eyeballs in recession.

Just exactly the type of response I expected from you. And you're the one who said he was open to listening?

the boys at the Pentagon know McCain's a go, and Romney will stop the bleeding, fiscal and otherwise.

Bob, I'm just curious, and I am not in any sense knocking you one way or the other, but did you ever serve a day in the military or the peace corp?

I know plenty of people like myself who still support the president 100%.
He has a clear eyed view of who our enemy is and he has gone after them.
The cost of this war as a percentage of GDP is really very low.
The economy has been doing fine for the past 5 years.
Our present problems have not been caused by the war.
Backing out now would be total idiocy.

Bob, I'm just curious, and I am not in any sense knocking you one way or the other, but did you ever serve a day in the military or the peace corp?

would you like my old shoulderboards?

would you like my old shoulderboards?

No, but you can have mine if you wish. They're upstairs. Thanks for serving.

would you like my old shoulderboards?

I wish more Republicans thought like you!

I know plenty of people like myself who still support the president 100%.
He has a clear eyed view of who our enemy is and he has gone after them.
The cost of this war as a percentage of GDP is really very low.
The economy has been doing fine for the past 5 years.
Our present problems have not been caused by the war.
Backing out now would be total idiocy.

I thought the war started as the hunt for a man who has yet to be found. If the view was clear eyed, we would have him in our scope, and would have taken him out. Now, they say our enemy is hiding among the people, and we aren't able to tell who is friend and who is enemy, but somehow, GW has a clear eyed view?

It has to do with bringing this United States back to some semblence of normality as far as everyday life is concerned. Yes, we need change alright but not necessarily the change that some envision. That change should be to enable people to stand up for themselves and be able to advance in life by the dictates that has made America great. To take care of those unable to do so and make sure they have a quality of life worth living. All others, as far as I'm concerned, need no support from me or my tax dollars and may leave these shores at any time it is convenient for them to do so. I know this may seem idealistic however I am still able to be hopeful it will come to pass.

Here is the million dollar question.... How does McCain plan to do this? I have not heard the answer to this question yet. I would really like to understand what changes his supporters believe he will make.

I know plenty of people like myself who still support the president 100%.
He has a clear eyed view of who our enemy is and he has gone after them.
The cost of this war as a percentage of GDP is really very low.

was the enemy in iraq or was this a continuation of his daddy's war. i think the money could have better spent.how did he determine the 19 saudis were from iraq?

Don't be distracted or discouraged by the hunt for Osama. He is just a piece of the puzzle our forces are scouring the world to eradicate. His movement has been badly damaged. And we will get him.
Deposing Sadam and taking control of Iraq is not the response they were hoping to provoke from us with 9.11.

George Bush has kicked over the game board and changed the world forever.
I think historians are going to rank Bush up next to Harry Truman.
He has had a lot of hard decisions to make.
Our enemies can not be happy.
The Russians must be pissed.

As for Maureen Dowd and daddy's war, let's be serious.
She belongs on the comic page with her psycho-babble

Deposing Sadam and taking control of Iraq is not the response they were hoping to provoke from us with 9.11.

it was exactly the response they wanted, to bankrupt our country in a war chasing our own tail. i would not be suprised if they have an event planned to take place to influence or general election. as for w did you forget he was in-charge on 9/11, just back from a months vacation, he was not prepared.