Debate

i thought the part at the end of the debate about being honored to be up there with obama was the begining of hillary's concession of the nomination to him.

Okay, BIGDOG...

CNN is reairing the debate so I am seeing the earlier parts I missed before. I totally get why you said this-

WOW. Talk about XEROX Obama. They should never ask Hilary questions first. Obama wouldn't know what to say.

In particular- for questions on Immigration (e.g. continuing the building of the fence, whether or not a bilingual nation is a problem, etc.), Hillary went first and then Obama mostly just echoed what she said. I'll give you that...

But I don't think this is because he lacks original ideas but rather I think they genuinely agree (they are from the same party) on sound ideas surrounding these issues... IMHO

G

WOW!

It will be interesting to see how this turns out!!!

Does Obama call her on this (above and beyond the media doing it for him)? And if so, does it work or does it give her solid (despite being "borrowed") answer even more airplay?

I'm fascinated with the dynamics here!

Now I'm intrigued. Great questions.

Does it hurt her more, since she's "borrowing" from a former opponent rather than a friend?

Does it make her attacks look more calculated?

Will she admit that sometimes a good turn of phrase will stick in your head, and you may inadvertently come out with the same words without realizing that they are not your own?

Now I'm intrigued. Great questions.

Does it hurt her more, since she's "borrowing" from a former opponent rather than a friend?

Does it make her attacks look more calculated?

Will she admit that sometimes a good turn of phrase will stick in your head, and you may inadvertently come out with the same words without realizing that they are not your own?

Now that i saw the video I think that her best answer of the night (and IMHO- the only one that could have made a difference in these next critical states) is the very one that will absolutely put the nail in the coffin for her (presuming Obama and the media call her on it)...

And sadly, it's her own fault because if she hadn't started the whole plagarism issue it would not have mattered at all that her words mirrored Edwards's.

I keep coming back to BIGDOG to give him some props...

Earlier I said I had a hard time with some of the rationale behind why you say Obama is an egomaniac. But I just caught a soundbyte that I feel supports your argument (not that I agree with it)...

And I quote-

"What I?ve been talking about in these speeches, and I gotta admit, some of ?em are pretty good..." -Obama during his answer to the plagarism question

Of course he was kidding and I get that. But the problem is that the speeches *were* good so it comes off badly, perhaps egomaniacal, to someone who hasn't decided that they like him yet...

It's kinda like a really good looking person calling themselves "good looking". Drew Carey can pull it off. Cindy Crawford cannot...

BigDog got banned for calling Obama an egomaniac? I hope there was more to it than that.....

BigDog got banned for calling Obama an egomaniac? I hope there was more to it than that.....

I had to delete some of her posts over the last few days, including a couple on this thread.

I had to delete some of her posts over the last few days, including a couple on this thread.

Ah. Hate it when that happens....

BigDog got banned for calling Obama an egomaniac? I hope there was more to it than that.....

there is nothing wrong with disagreement and heating things up. but repeated nastiness is not acceptable when people are trying to have a thoughtful discussion, imo. this is not a democracy. it's a message board.

my ignore button works pretty well until you guys start quoting the ignored party and I have to see them anyway.:roll: oh well.

I agree with Obama when he said that this is where the silliness of politics comes in -- in reference to the "plagerism" attack. I'm am constantly saying things to my kids that I realize (after they come our of my mouth) are direct quotes from my mom. OR I'll say a line from a movie to my husband. These are the influences of my life. How do you avoid NOT quoting them? Obama should be free to quote his advisors and people that have inspired or influenced him as well.

And really I think Hillary should be free to do the same.

It seems so petty to even be discussing it. I was really dissappointed (but not surprised) by Hillary's "xerox" comment. I do think it's ironic that her greatest line (although it was her delivery method that was great -- as she seemed "real") was copied from Edwards. But I hope the media will let it die. Do people really care?

It's kinda like a really good looking person calling themselves "good looking". Drew Carey can pull it off. Cindy Crawford cannot...

Drew wears glasses.

Cindy does not.

Did anyone see on CNN when one of the Analyst were talking about seeing Clinton and Obama before the debate? They said Obama greeted Clinton Warmly and put his arm around her. She responded kindly. Then they joked about how tall their secret service people were. And how the secret service bought boots in their time off. I would love to have been a fly on the wall and to have seen this warm albeit trivial exchange.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAYItnI-lPo&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/

The best line of the night....

:roll:

Wish I could have been there with you Punzy!

BigDog got banned for calling Obama an egomaniac? I hope there was more to it than that.....

Me, too! I actually thought this thread started by geowickey had some good discussion. can someone explain to me the rules for political discussion? i see people using facts, "facts" and personal opinion. inquiring minds want to know! sorry, i'll go back to lurking now...this is a tough crowd!

Ah. Hate it when that happens....

I certainly do as well. I know it gets very comfy and cozy for "the family " of those commentators and posters on Sowal who seem to have the most amount of posts. This group, including myself, also have the most amount of concern and interest I feel--the two do go hand in hand.

I think there is respect for other people's opinions here in general here, I certainly hope banning is not done arbitrarily or by the consensus of a small coterie! :angry: I don't know how is works here?

9. Obama - egomaniac? perhaps. you kind of need to have a healthy ego to put yourself out there like that. so I think its more self-confidence in one's ability. but he is very sincere, authentic, and believes. when he said some of his speeches were really good - we just rolled:rofl:. this guys is funny on top of brilliant. I can't think of a better combo.

I liked your analysis of the debate, with exception to #9 (and#11;-)). I am bothered with "sincere and authentic" when discussing politicians. To me, those are attributes that need time to be assesed and in Obama's case, I have not had enough time to determine that. I'm not saying that he's not sincere, I'm just saying it's too soon for me to judge. I agree with you that a candidate needs a healthy ego, but I also think great leaders need to have an equal amount of humility. I think is IS possible. He is a fantastic orator, but he sometimes goes past the point that I want to listen. I thought 47 minutes on Tuesday night was excessive.

ND went huge for Obama so now for us it's just a waiting game for the dem choice. My next vote will be for McCain or (most likely) Obama. For now I continue to be decidedly undecided.

Why was BIGDOG banned?
I think we are all intelligent enough to use our own filter.

I certainly do as well. I know it gets very comfy and cozy for "the family " of those commentators and posters on Sowal who seem to have the most amount of posts. This group, including myself, also have the most amount of concern and interest I feel--the two do go hand in hand.

I think there is respect for other people's opinions here in general here, I certainly hope banning is not done arbitrarily or by the consensus of a small coterie! :angry: I don't know how is works here?

You certainly do what? Hate when I have to delete posts, or when people post stuff that has to be deleted (which I believe is what here4good meant)? Only a few people have been banned over several years, only after given plenty of leeway. A couple of people have returned, repeated offenses and been banned again.

Personal attacks are not allowed on this board.

Yes, that was what I meant .

I hate it when the moderator has to delete posts which go over the edge to personal attacks.

Whether or not a candidate is speaking their own words or copying someone else is very low on my priority list as I know thay all have speechwriters and consultants telling them how and what to say.

Obviously they should give credit where credit is due, but much bigger issues should take precedence IMO.

You certainly do what? Hate when I have to delete posts, or when people post stuff that has to be deleted (which I believe is what here4good meant)? Only a few people have been banned over several years, only after given plenty of leeway. A couple of people have returned, repeated offenses and been banned again.

Personal attacks are not allowed on this board.

I missed the personal attacks that IMHO would have warranted the ban-Is this because they were deleted before I read them or because maybe they weren't that bad?

BIGDOG was a little over the top in some of the posts that I saw but I went out of my way to filter through the BS and get to the heart of his/her points. I attempted to salvage a healthy argument- even adding credence to some of his/her arguments...

And I was looking forward to his/her response to my last posts that addressed him/her...

Too bad...

I enjoyed the discussion from others as well. Good stuff.

Kurt, it has been a while since this was said-

thanks for having the vision to create such a great medium...

I agree with Obama when he said that this is where the silliness of politics comes in -- in reference to the "plagerism" attack. I'm am constantly saying things to my kids that I realize (after they come our of my mouth) are direct quotes from my mom. OR I'll say a line from a movie to my husband. These are the influences of my life. How do you avoid NOT quoting them? Obama should be free to quote his advisors and people that have inspired or influenced him as well.

And really I think Hillary should be free to do the same.

It seems so petty to even be discussing it. I was really dissappointed (but not surprised) by Hillary's "xerox" comment. I do think it's ironic that her greatest line (although it was her delivery method that was great -- as she seemed "real") was copied from Edwards. But I hope the media will let it die. Do people really care?

excellent post tis.

obama's comments on the "silly season in politics" was one of those truly inspirational yet funny comments, to me.

Me, too! I actually thought this thread started by geowickey had some good discussion. can someone explain to me the rules for political discussion? i see people using facts, "facts" and personal opinion. inquiring minds want to know! sorry, i'll go back to lurking now...this is a tough crowd!

Rules for political discussion? don't think we have anything in writing. mainly listen, learn, speak, state your opinion, be respectful when disagreeing with another's opinion, use common courtesy towards others. you don't have to use common courtesy to candidates however - they are not board members. sometimes we do see someone coming onto a very thoughtful thread, and they google/cut/paste some random extreme article or blog just for inflammatory purposes. we should be like obama and just move beyond such silliness and continue with the conversation as if it never happened. Mostly, we are all learning the conversation of politics as we go. good for us.

oh, and President bashing is considered healthy and patriotic as hail. at least by some. not me of course.;-)

MK - what do you mean this is a tough group? this thread is a very nice discussion, except for one person - it's not what was said, its how its said and its after multiple bannings. she keeps reincarnating but never for the better.

Why was BIGDOG banned?
I think we are all intelligent enough to use our own filter.

Of course Kurt is in charge of this thing, but usually questioning the moderator, in a public forum, is another quick way to lose your posting privileges.

I think there is educational/practical value in understanding why one was/can be banned. I don't think further crossed a line in asking.

2 cents...

If you never hear from me again you will know that WaltonGOP was right when (s)he said-

Of course Kurt is in charge of this thing, but usually questioning the moderator, in a public forum, is another quick way to lose your posting privileges.