CIA and torture

bob, im impressed that you would post this. without me guessing which seams to be all to easy, what are your thoughts on this? this should be interesting folks......

bob, im impressed that you would post this. without me guessing which seams to be all to easy, what are your thoughts on this? this should be interesting folks......

Yeah Bob, why do you hate America? Are you a commie?

Terrorists need a little jack...

On Monday August 24th it released a report on the agency?s ?interrogation activities? that was written by the CIA?s internal watchdog in 2004. In addition the attorney-general, Eric Holder, announced that a special prosecutor will decide whether a full criminal investigation is warranted into the activities of CIA staff and contractors.

Would-be attorney general Eric Holder haunted by Marc Rich pardon - Los Angeles Times

Reporting from Washington ? Seven years ago, after his name was dragged very publicly through the mud in a Clinton administration pardon scandal, President-elect Barack Obama's top pick for attorney general was certain that his long and successful career in public service was at an end.

"I'm done. Public life's over for me," Eric H. Holder Jr. told the Washington Post in March 2001. "I had a moment in time. That moment has passed."

Holder, who had been President Clinton's deputy attorney general, appears to have been wrong. Barring unforeseen circumstances, Holder "will be the pick," one Democratic official close to the Obama transition team said Wednesday. But his much-disputed role in Clinton's pardons, particularly that of fugitive financier Marc Rich, is coming back to haunt him.

When a White House lawyer called Holder on the last day of the Clinton administration, Holder said he was "neutral, leaning toward favorable" about the pardon. Later, he said he was unaware of some aspects of Rich's background.

Clinton and his aides said Holder's input was a factor in the decision to pardon Rich, whose ex-wife, Denise, was a frequent visitor to the White House and a major donor to Democratic campaigns and to Clinton's presidential library.

Marc Rich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CIA and torture: In the cold light of day | The Economist In the cold light of day

Aug 25th 2009
From Economist.com


BARACK OBAMA has said that he does not want to dwell on whether the CIA previously tortured prisoners during interrogations in secret prisons overseas. The Department of Justice, however, is proposing to do just that. On Monday August 24th it released a report on the agency?s ?interrogation activities? that was written by the CIA?s internal watchdog in 2004. In addition the attorney-general, Eric Holder, announced that a special prosecutor will decide whether a full criminal investigation is warranted into the activities of CIA staff and contractors.

The CIA report includes some unpleasant new details. Ever since photographs emerged in 2004 showing the abuse of inmates by American guards in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, fresh revelations have lost some of their ability to shock. But the report includes examples of unedifying behaviour. Interrogators threatened one prisoner, Abd al-Rahim al Nashiri, with a pistol and power-drill, as they accused him of being part of the bombing of the American destroyer USS Cole, in 2000. One officer blew cigarette smoke into prisoners? faces for minutes on end, inducing them to vomit. Another put a detainee in a pressure-hold, blocking the arteries to his brain, repeatedly making him pass out.

BARACK OBAMA has said that he does not want to dwell on whether the CIA previously tortured prisoners during interrogations in secret prisons overseas...but the healthcare debate has fallen out of his favor, so he decided to create this diversion, thus embracing his radical roots, and at this exact moment, start investigating the interrogation techniques that were used in an attempt to thwart future terrorist attacks on US soil. Like Rahm told him, never waste a good crisis.

Don't blame me folks, I voted for the war hero.

Holder is independent and not beholden to Obama's political whims, so we can't claim this is Obama's doing. However, Holder does owe Obama a great deal for resurrecting his career, and the timing of this is rather questionable.

In the end though we don't know thw facts, why they kicked this off now, etc.. So I'd say let it play out. Odds are it will backfire on Obama, regardless of whether or not he played a part in initiating it.

Yeah Bob, why do you hate America? Are you a commie?

I believe you just hit the nail on the head. Why else would he hate America so much is he wasn't a commie.

Holder is independent and not beholden to Obama's political whims, so we can't claim this is Obama's doing. However, Holder does owe Obama a great deal for resurrecting his career, and the timing of this is rather questionable.

In the end though we don't know thw facts, why they kicked this off now, etc.. So I'd say let it play out. Odds are it will backfire on Obama, regardless of whether or not he played a part in initiating it.

The word has consistently been -- and I have not heard otherwise, except from Dick "Mr. Projection" Cheney -- that Obama did NOT want this from Holder. Newsweek wrote extensively about Holder several weeks ago, writing about the Rich pardon and how he is haunted by it, and how he and Obama may end up clashing. It was interesting reading.

the word has consistently been -- and i have not heard otherwise, except from dick "mr. Projection" cheney -- that obama did not want this from holder. Newsweek wrote extensively about holder several weeks ago, writing about the rich pardon and how he is haunted by it, and how he and obama may end up clashing. It was interesting reading.

so because newsweek says so it means its real? I think we all know how credible newsweek has become-not!

Fact is, the president makes the final call-period. This is both a gift to the far-left and a distraction from the health reform debate. Thats politics and obama has mastered the political game of minipulation.

What the president hasnt figured out thus far is to not have the cia on your side is a big mistake. Can you imagine being one of these operatives and have to worry about some leftist attorney instead of the lives of perhaps thousands of americans? I dont care what an operative "says" to "threaten" someone in order to save american lives. If i knew my family was in danger, id cut the bastards arms off if thats what it took. And dont give me this nonsense that our place in the world is important. If it werent for the smearing coming from the left constantly for political gain, perhaps our place in the world would be better. And who cares what the rest of the world thinks anyway? They will always be jelous of our success. In this case, it thwarted further attacks and absolutely saved american lives. These lives would be past tense if it were up to the left-period.

But, proceed with smearing them and providing comfort to the enemy with such words and accusations. The enemy has echoed these kinds of words on almost every propaganda piece and will continue to do so until they are defeated.

Would-be attorney general Eric Holder haunted by Marc Rich pardon - Los Angeles Times

Reporting from Washington ? Seven years ago, after his name was dragged very publicly through the mud in a Clinton administration pardon scandal, President-elect Barack Obama's top pick for attorney general was certain that his long and successful career in public service was at an end.

"I'm done. Public life's over for me," Eric H. Holder Jr. told the Washington Post in March 2001. "I had a moment in time. That moment has passed."

Holder, who had been President Clinton's deputy attorney general, appears to have been wrong. Barring unforeseen circumstances, Holder "will be the pick," one Democratic official close to the Obama transition team said Wednesday. But his much-disputed role in Clinton's pardons, particularly that of fugitive financier Marc Rich, is coming back to haunt him.

When a White House lawyer called Holder on the last day of the Clinton administration, Holder said he was "neutral, leaning toward favorable" about the pardon. Later, he said he was unaware of some aspects of Rich's background.

Clinton and his aides said Holder's input was a factor in the decision to pardon Rich, whose ex-wife, Denise, was a frequent visitor to the White House and a major donor to Democratic campaigns and to Clinton's presidential library.

Marc Rich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

nice deflection

bob, im impressed that you would post this. without me guessing which seams to be all to easy, what are your thoughts on this? this should be interesting folks......

you white pinknecks are big on the founding slaveholding fathers. would the founding slaveholding fathers condone torture? would they use hand drills instead of electric drills. would we be the shining city on the hill waterboarding prisoners? where is that torture paragraph in the constitution?

so because newsweek says so it means its real? I think we all know how credible newsweek has become-not!

Fact is, the president makes the final call-period. This is both a gift to the far-left and a distraction from the health reform debate. Thats politics and obama has mastered the political game of minipulation.

What the president hasnt figured out thus far is to not have the cia on your side is a big mistake. Can you imagine being one of these operatives and have to worry about some leftist attorney instead of the lives of perhaps thousands of americans? I dont care what an operative "says" to "threaten" someone in order to save american lives. If i knew my family was in danger, id cut the bastards arms off if thats what it took. And dont give me this nonsense that our place in the world is important. If it werent for the smearing coming from the left constantly for political gain, perhaps our place in the world would be better. And who cares what the rest of the world thinks anyway? They will always be jelous of our success. In this case, it thwarted further attacks and absolutely saved american lives. These lives would be past tense if it were up to the left-period.

But, proceed with smearing them and providing comfort to the enemy with such words and accusations. The enemy has echoed these kinds of words on almost every propaganda piece and will continue to do so until they are defeated.

By all means, if you can find a credible, sourced item that indicates that Obama is the one pushing for this, by all means please link to it. I could find no such talk except from Mr. Cheney (who has too much to lose to be considered unbiased).

Meantime, there was this at foxnews.com, which, like every other report I have seen, indicates that in the end this was Holder's call, which is of course his right (and apparently he sees it as his duty):

Rep. Pete Hoekstra, the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, on Tuesday predicted that the investigation will disrupt CIA counterrorism initiatives in Afghanistan.

"President Obama has said repeatedly that he wants to move forward, but his Justice Department seems intractably stuck in reverse. ... The attorney general needs to stop his zealous attempt to make this out to be a systemic problem," Hoekstra said.

"Disgruntled lawyers at DOJ, having lost the debate that America's counterrorism efforts, should be focused on prevention not prosecution, (and) need to put an end to his bureaucratic turf battle," he continued.

I have mixed emotions about the whole probe and frankly, am not qualified to offer an opinion as to whether the investigation is a good idea. However I do find the tension between Obama and Holder very interesting. To suggest that there isn't any on this issue, and that Obama is merely "creating a diversion," just seems ludicrous at this point.

Allot of deflection, no meat! If a country authorizes torture, it is a terrorist nation! You have NO right to torture in my name!
Infantrymen, of which I was one once when I was young, will suffer more than usual if the empire accepts the dark side as OK with them! perhaps you never served in the big green man eating machine, but trust me there is really little concern from the likes of a cheney for the soldiers who bear the brunt of this.

you white pinknecks are big on the founding slaveholding fathers. would the founding slaveholding fathers condone torture? would they use hand drills instead of electric drills. would we be the shining city on the hill waterboarding prisoners? where is that torture paragraph in the constitution?

If one could find documentation of one of the founders participating in a tarring and feathering, I think one could make an argument that they did indeed condone torture!

Allot of deflection, no meat! If a country authorizes torture, it is a terrorist nation! You have NO right to torture in my name!
Infantrymen, of which I was one once when I was young, will suffer more than usual if the empire accepts the dark side as OK with them! perhaps you never served in the big green man eating machine, but trust me there is really little concern from the likes of a cheney for the soldiers who bear the brunt of this.

jack s----------Did you try to get one of those hardship early outs to go cut sugarcane in Cuba? I knew some who applied but were saddly turned down by the mean old US Government.

Terrorists need a little jack...

The favorite toture-porn star of the worldwide wingnut association. I hear he's got a really big prod.

The favorite toture-porn star of the worldwide wingnut association. I hear he's got a really big prod.

hey, i don't need the visual. but thanks anyway..

so because newsweek says so it means its real? I think we all know how credible newsweek has become-not!

Fact is, the president makes the final call-period. This is both a gift to the far-left and a distraction from the health reform debate. Thats politics and obama has mastered the political game of minipulation.

What the president hasnt figured out thus far is to not have the cia on your side is a big mistake. Can you imagine being one of these operatives and have to worry about some leftist attorney instead of the lives of perhaps thousands of americans? I dont care what an operative "says" to "threaten" someone in order to save american lives. If i knew my family was in danger, id cut the bastards arms off if thats what it took. And dont give me this nonsense that our place in the world is important. If it werent for the smearing coming from the left constantly for political gain, perhaps our place in the world would be better. And who cares what the rest of the world thinks anyway? They will always be jelous of our success. In this case, it thwarted further attacks and absolutely saved american lives. These lives would be past tense if it were up to the left-period.

But, proceed with smearing them and providing comfort to the enemy with such words and accusations. The enemy has echoed these kinds of words on almost every propaganda piece and will continue to do so until they are defeated.

Thanks for saying what so many of us are thinking! You summed it up well!

you white pinknecks are big on the founding slaveholding fathers. would the founding slaveholding fathers condone torture? would they use hand drills instead of electric drills. would we be the shining city on the hill waterboarding prisoners? where is that torture paragraph in the constitution?

Where were the airplanes and bombs when our country was founded? I am proud of my "redneck" if that is what it means to be a Conservative Patriot who wants to see our country regain its rightful place in the world. NO - I do not want to be a part of the World Order. The United States of America is superior to other countries because of our Constitution and the spirit of the founding fathers still alive in many of us. We will do what is necessary to protect our country, its citizens and defend our Constitution and way of life.

I know it is wrong but I'm just being honest-

Part of me wishes the hardcore stuff was going on but that the media never reported it and we never knew about it. I'm not talking about cops rounding up folks who break the law and beating them to get aggression out. I'm talking about special ops/super secret CIA types capturing people who bomb and kill innocents (and those who plan it/recruit youths in the name of religion) and getting medieval on them. And let the rest of us live with our ideals in ignorant bliss...

After 9-11 this country and this area was awash in patriotism. Caught up in the trauma of what had taken place, I don't recall anyone on either side of any "aisle" feeling sorry for the fanatical terrorists who have no regard for human life. Actually, I dont remember an "aisle." Flags were flying, murals were being painted on contractors toolsheds, even certain businesses did not mind displaying their support publicly.
I say, in the name of humanitarianism, we let all of the detainees loose in our country, give them free health-care, have a beer in the backyard of the whitehouse, and take turns on the playground equiment.
Our economy is in serious trouble, unemployment is soaring, the healthcare bill is a massively important issue for everyone whether an advocate or opposed.
and not only are we beating a dead horse, we have exhumed it and are beating it again.
amazing!

Where were the airplanes and bombs when our country was founded? I am proud of my "redneck" if that is what it means to be a Conservative Patriot who wants to see our country regain its rightful place in the world. NO - I do not want to be a part of the World Order. The United States of America is superior to other countries because of our Constitution and the spirit of the founding fathers still alive in many of us. We will do what is necessary to protect our country, its citizens and defend our Constitution and way of life.

Thanks for crawling off your cross putting on your flag snuggie and slamming that out.

I'd like to see President Obama simply deal with one thing at a time. Apparently that's all conservatives are able to comprehend. Health care is at the forefront so torture, wars, economy, and all that other "pesky" crap can wait, right? That's what the oh so proud to be a redneck folks want right?

I know it is wrong but I'm just being honest-

Part of me wishes the hardcore stuff was going on but that the media never reported it and we never knew about it. I'm not talking about cops rounding up folks who break the law and beating them to get aggression out. I'm talking about special ops/super secret CIA types capturing people who bomb and kill innocents (and those who plan it/recruit youths in the name of religion) and getting medieval on them. And let the rest of us live with our ideals in ignorant bliss...

And, I will go out on the limb with you and agree.

I know it is wrong but I'm just being honest-

Part of me wishes the hardcore stuff was going on but that the media never reported it and we never knew about it. I'm not talking about cops rounding up folks who break the law and beating them to get aggression out. I'm talking about special ops/super secret CIA types capturing people who bomb and kill innocents (and those who plan it/recruit youths in the name of religion) and getting medieval on them. And let the rest of us live with our ideals in ignorant bliss...

We might live in ignorant bliss but the rest of the world wouldn't.
Behavior like this will come to light because fortunately there is always that one person with a conscience and the desire to do the right thing who will reveal it to the world.

nice deflection

I call it reflection. Apparently, (based on other posts) the Attorney General is never beholden to the President who appoints him (especially when such a person's career was pulled from the political salvage yard). I'll stipulate to that. I presume the AG is obligated to pursue justice no matter who's toe's he may tread upon? Is it not relevant and prudent to review a man's past who has unilateral authority to choose who/what/when/where/how Federal Prosecutions proceed (or do not proceed)??

Imagine if W had appointed a man who Bill Clinton claimed aided his pardoning decision process of a man who was Federally Indicted in the U.S. for tax evasion as well as making oil deals w/ Iran during the Iran Hostage Crisis?? Would that man then be heralded as a non-biased champion of justice? Speaking of Eric Holder's passion for blind justice regardless of collateral damage, here is additional nice reflection........

John Fund: Black Panther Voter Intimidation Case Dropped - WSJ.com
President Obama's Justice Department continues to stonewall inquiries about why it dropped a voter intimidation case against the New Black Panther Party.

The episode?which Bartle Bull, a former civil rights lawyer and publisher of the left-wing Village Voice, calls "the most blatant form of voter intimidation I've ever seen"?began on Election Day 2008. Mr. Bull and others witnessed two Black Panthers in paramilitary garb at a polling place near downtown Philadelphia. (Some of this behavior is on YouTube.)

One of them, they say, brandished a nightstick at the entrance and pointed it at voters and both made racial threats. Mr. Bull says he heard one yell "You are about to be ruled by the black man, cracker!"

When none of the defendants filed any response to the complaint or appeared in federal district court in Philadelphia to answer the suit, it appeared almost certain Justice would have prevailed by default. Instead, the department in May suddenly allowed the party and two of the three defendants to walk away. Against the third defendant, Minister King Samir Shabazz, it sought only an injunction barring him from displaying a weapon within 100 feet of a Philadelphia polling place for the next three years?action that's already illegal under existing law.