Army Suicide Toll

Suicide Toll Fuels Worry That Army Is Strained - WSJ.com By YOCHI J. DREAZEN

Sixteen American soldiers killed themselves in October in the U.S. and on duty overseas, an unusually high monthly toll that is fueling concerns about the mental health of the nation's military personnel after more than eight years of continuous warfare.



The Army's top generals worry that surging tens of thousands more troops into Afghanistan could increase the strain felt by many military personnel after years of repeated deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan.

The October suicide figures mean that at least 134 active-duty soldiers have taken their own lives so far this year, putting the Army on pace to break last year's record of 140 active-duty suicides. The number of Army suicides has risen 37% since 2006, and last year, the suicide rate surpassed that of the U.S. population for the first time....these wars have lasted too long with no end in sight, the same troops have been redeployed too much.

So Bob, what do you think we should do to get the troops out? Or do you think leaving the troops there just have more incentives for them to stay? You know like when you where in the Military Bob, (Assuming you were) they had bonus's for staying in a combat theater or re-enlisting. What do you suggest we do? Your vast background in Military deployment could help resolve these issues.

Jack

The Army has strict rules on deployment timelines. If they pass the normal 12 month deployment (some exceptions have been approved for 15 months) all of the top ranking officials have to get together for a (POW WOW and get approval for the longer deployments. Then there is the rule of the dwell time. It is to be the length of the deployment. If dwell time is broken another pow wow and another approval process. The main issue of these exceptions to policy are for the combat engineers, medical, military intelligence, and military pollice. The high demand/low density specialist. Not the infantryman. There are plenty of them.

The high demand/low density guys are hard to find, they have to have exceptional apptitudes and lots of civilian and military training. Look how long it takes a nurse to get trained. A linguist is another story especially in the Arabic and Farsi languages, then the dialects of each. And then there is the fact that if one of these highly skilled individuals happens to admit being gay they are dismissed after the military has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to get them to the levels of expertise needed. They get kicked out and come back as contractors and the governments pays them sometimes 2 to 3 to 5 times what they were making as soldiers.

So it is not as easy as raise the force structure levels and our problems are solved.

I know of no one getting a bonus for staying deployed. Army units deploy as units and come home as units. Individuals deploy as augmentees normaly to a staff level position for 6 to 12 months and normally in the less dangerous locaitons. Soldiers are getting bonuses for enlisted in specific specialties and for reenlisting.

Contractors can stay for as long as they like and up to about 90K is tax free per year. May be a little higher or lower. The soldiers pay is tax free also, the officer's is to the level of the highest enlisted soldiers pay. The civil servant that volunteers to be deployed receives no extra benefits, ie tax break.

Air Force, Navy, and Marine deployments are six months. Not 12 to 15 or so. Therefore you hear of more problems in the Army.

And yes, we should pull out now and get those countries to pay us back the billions of dollars that we have wasted over there and put it into protecting ourselves on our own homeland......something called HOMELAND DEFENSE...HOMELAND PROTECTION.....HOMELAND SECURITY.

I think it would be great if the Army could have max 6 month deployments too - not 12 or 15. It's ridiculous that we do that to families and personnel in this day and age.

Yes, I know it is more expensive, but maybe if we stopped paying contractors so much to do the same job and giving them tax breaks we could afford it!

Year + is not of this day and age as you say. I spent two tours in Viet Nam. This is nothing NEW. 13 months in Korea, where did you find that this was of this day and age?

Jack

The Army has strict rules on deployment timelines. If they past the normal 12 month deployment (some exceptions have been approved for 15 months) all of the top ranking officials have to get together for a (POW WOW and get approval for the longer deployments. Then there is the rule of the dwell time. It is to be the length of the deployment. If dwell time is broken another pow wow and another approval process. The main issue of these exceptions to policy are for the combat engineers, medical, military intelligence, and military pollice. The high demand/low density specialist. Not the infantryman. There are plenty of them.

The high demand/low density guys are hard to find, they have to have exceptional apptitudes and lots of civilian and military training. Look how long it takes a nurse to get trained. A linguist is another story especially in the Arabic and Farsi languages, then the dialects of each. And then there is the fact that if one of these highly skilled individuals happens to admit being gay they are dismissed after the military has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to get them to the levels of expertise needed. They get kicked out and come back as contractors and the governments pays them sometimes 2 to 3 to 5 times what they were making as soldiers.

So it is not as easy as raise the force structure levels and our problems are solved.

I know of no one getting a bonus for staying deployed. Army units deploy as units and come home as units. Individuals deploy as augmentees normaly to a staff level position for 6 to 12 months and normally in the less dangerous locaitons. Soldiers are getting bonuses for enlisted in specific specialties and for reenlisting.

Contractors can stay for as long as they like and up to about 90K is tax free per year. May be a little higher or lower. The soldiers pay is tax free also, the officer's is to the level of the highest enlisted soldiers pay. The civil servant that volunteers to be deployed receives no extra benefits, ie tax break.

Air Force, Navy, and Marine deployments are six months. Not 12 to 15 or so. Therefore you hear of more problems in the Army.

And yes, we should pull out now and get those countries to pay us back the billions of dollars that we have wasted over there and put it into protecting ourselves on our own homeland......something called HOMELAND DEFENSE...HOMELAND PROTECTION.....HOMELAND SECURITY.

Now what do you suggest we do to pull out the troops? Just set a date and tell the world on such and such a date at this certain time we will remove all our TROOPS from there? Just curious.

Jack

So Bob, what do you think we should do to get the troops out? Or do you think leaving the troops there just have more incentives for them to stay? You know like when you where in the Military Bob, (Assuming you were) they had bonus's for staying in a combat theater or re-enlisting. What do you suggest we do? Your vast background in Military deployment could help resolve these issues.

Jack

no need to for the condecension, am ex-military, ocs, with annapolis, west point brothers and cousins. we are stuck in afghanistan with a corrupt, weak central government like vietnam. there's no need for a macarthur or westmoreland play. we are in a protracted war of occupation with no clear goals other than keeping an unsustainable equilibrium. we can project power without ground forces. we at some point must admit the cost of this war is not worth the benefit of denying the taliban a role in governance.

Now what do you suggest we do to pull out the troops? Just set a date and tell the world on such and such a date at this certain time we will remove all our TROOPS from there? Just curious.

Jack

No, we do exactly as we did in Viet Nam. Let Congress cease funding the military and then pull out all the troops unexpectedly, thereby creating even further chaos and disarray than we have now. We have no idea of how to fight any kind of war and haven't had since World War II. We have neither the intelligence or capability to do so as too many Americans would be horrified as to what actually was required. So lets bring the troops home, not only in Iraq and Afganistan but all the other places as well, cut out our foriegn aid and let the chips fall where they may. It could be no worse than what we are seeing now.

No, we do exactly as we did in Viet Nam. Let Congress cease funding the military and then pull out all the troops unexpectedly, thereby creating even further chaos and disarray than we have now. We have no idea of how to fight any kind of war and haven't had since World War II. We have neither the intelligence or capability to do so as too many Americans would be horrified as to what actually was required. So lets bring the troops home, not only in Iraq and Afganistan but all the other places as well, cut out our foriegn aid and let the chips fall where they may. It could be no worse than what we are seeing now.

curtis lemay theory, but ask yourself, what we accomplish by slaughtering everyone?

Now what do you suggest we do to pull out the troops? Just set a date and tell the world on such and such a date at this certain time we will remove all our TROOPS from there? Just curious.

Jack

Well we told the world on "such and such a date" we would send troops into war, as in Iraq, bomb and invade. (remember shock and awe?) And at that point, we knew there were going to be civilian and military casualties. Why not do the same thing as we exit? What is the difference?

We have a mostly indifferent American public and group of politicians. Unfortunately too few American care because they have no involverment or commitment to these wars (unlike WWII). If I were a soldier in Iraq or Afhganistan I would question what my presence means as well!

Year + is not of this day and age as you say. I spent two tours in Viet Nam. This is nothing NEW. 13 months in Korea, where did you find that this was of this day and age?

Jack

I guess I was hoping we could improve on how we treat personnel and families after several more decades - my bad. :roll:

curtis lemay theory, but ask yourself, what we accomplish by slaughtering everyone?

Bob, you and I will never ever agree on anything of importance so please cease asking me your stupid questions. You, to me, have little or no idea of how the real world works. Our ideas and ideals are so far apart that it is infathomable. And to think you were a commissioned officer, a leader of our troops. It takes all kinds, and yes I know your response will be it sure does but I am disappointed that we had such military leaders such as you and John Murtha.

Bob, you and I will never ever agree on anything of importance so please cease asking me your stupid questions. You, to me, have little or no idea of how the real world works. Our ideas and ideals are so far apart that it is infathomable. And to think you were a commissioned officer, a leader of our troops. It takes all kinds, and yes I know your response will be it sure does but I am disappointed that we had such military leaders such as you and John Murtha.

What type of leader was he? This is an unfair statement to any veteran unless you served under them or have personal knowledge you wish to share.

Bob, you and I will never ever agree on anything of importance so please cease asking me your stupid questions. You, to me, have little or no idea of how the real world works. Our ideas and ideals are so far apart that it is infathomable. And to think you were a commissioned officer, a leader of our troops. It takes all kinds, and yes I know your response will be it sure does but I am disappointed that we had such military leaders such as you and John Murtha.

my stupid questions? post some more about respect and fairness. as far as your real world comment, your reference point is good/evil, right/wrong, fair/unfair. our foreign affairs are conducted on the basis of money/power. the aforementioned ideas are for the general public to believe. these two stupid wars are a gift of gw's making to feed the m i complex and help the oil industry. i saw a young man, a veteran, in costco today with no hands, stubs below the elbow. he had no feet, just titanium extensions below the knees. tell me he was defending our freedom, and then close your eyes and count to three.

The Army has strict rules on deployment timelines. If they past the normal 12 month deployment (some exceptions have been approved for 15 months) all of the top ranking officials have to get together for a (POW WOW and get approval for the longer deployments. Then there is the rule of the dwell time. It is to be the length of the deployment. If dwell time is broken another pow wow and another approval process. The main issue of these exceptions to policy are for the combat engineers, medical, military intelligence, and military pollice. The high demand/low density specialist. Not the infantryman. There are plenty of them.

The high demand/low density guys are hard to find, they have to have exceptional apptitudes and lots of civilian and military training. Look how long it takes a nurse to get trained. A linguist is another story especially in the Arabic and Farsi languages, then the dialects of each. And then there is the fact that if one of these highly skilled individuals happens to admit being gay they are dismissed after the military has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to get them to the levels of expertise needed. They get kicked out and come back as contractors and the governments pays them sometimes 2 to 3 to 5 times what they were making as soldiers.

So it is not as easy as raise the force structure levels and our problems are solved.

I know of no one getting a bonus for staying deployed. Army units deploy as units and come home as units. Individuals deploy as augmentees normaly to a staff level position for 6 to 12 months and normally in the less dangerous locaitons. Soldiers are getting bonuses for enlisted in specific specialties and for reenlisting.

Contractors can stay for as long as they like and up to about 90K is tax free per year. May be a little higher or lower. The soldiers pay is tax free also, the officer's is to the level of the highest enlisted soldiers pay. The civil servant that volunteers to be deployed receives no extra benefits, ie tax break.

Air Force, Navy, and Marine deployments are six months. Not 12 to 15 or so. Therefore you hear of more problems in the Army.

And yes, we should pull out now and get those countries to pay us back the billions of dollars that we have wasted over there and put it into protecting ourselves on our own homeland......something called HOMELAND DEFENSE...HOMELAND PROTECTION.....HOMELAND SECURITY.

pull out now and get them to pay us back? if it were that easy....

what is with the left and surrendering when things get tough? do we really need a scar like vietnam? are you prepared to swallow the rep our nation will get after pulling out? are you willing to accept the fallen in vein? are you willing to accept the fact that terrorists worldwide will be emboldened by our retreat? are any of these something you consider or is just waving the white flag the easiest solution to comprehend?

no need to for the condecension, am ex-military, ocs, with annapolis, west point brothers and cousins. we are stuck in afghanistan with a corrupt, weak central government like vietnam. there's no need for a macarthur or westmoreland play. we are in a protracted war of occupation with no clear goals other than keeping an unsustainable equilibrium. we can project power without ground forces. we at some point must admit the cost of this war is not worth the benefit of denying the taliban a role in governance.

your echoing what the opposition to the surge in iraq said and look what the surge accomplished. the military can win this war, but not with liberal politicians playing politics with their lives. you fight to win-period. and thats not just with bombs either. right now they are all sitting ducks waiting for the attorney and chief to make up his attorney mindset up.

No, we do exactly as we did in Viet Nam. Let Congress cease funding the military and then pull out all the troops unexpectedly, thereby creating even further chaos and disarray than we have now. We have no idea of how to fight any kind of war and haven't had since World War II. We have neither the intelligence or capability to do so as too many Americans would be horrified as to what actually was required. So lets bring the troops home, not only in Iraq and Afganistan but all the other places as well, cut out our foriegn aid and let the chips fall where they may. It could be no worse than what we are seeing now.

If it were that easy. the world would crumble because we keep the peace around the globe with our military. most havent a clue on how many places we're stationed to keep the peace and provide aid.

Well we told the world on "such and such a date" we would send troops into war, as in Iraq, bomb and invade. (remember shock and awe?) And at that point, we knew there were going to be civilian and military casualties. Why not do the same thing as we exit? What is the difference?

We have a mostly indifferent American public and group of politicians. Unfortunately too few American care because they have no involverment or commitment to these wars (unlike WWII). If I were a soldier in Iraq or Afhganistan I would question what my presence means as well!

is that a serious question, alpha? you cant be comparing the too....

my stupid questions? post some more about respect and fairness. as far as your real world comment, your reference point is good/evil, right/wrong, fair/unfair. our foreign affairs are conducted on the basis of money/power. the aforementioned ideas are for the general public to believe. these two stupid wars are a gift of gw's making to feed the m i complex and help the oil industry. i saw a young man, a veteran, in costco today with no hands, stubs below the elbow. he had no feet, just titanium extensions below the knees. tell me he was defending our freedom, and then close your eyes and count to three.

your echoing what the opposition to the surge in iraq said and look what the surge accomplished. the military can win this war, but not with liberal politicians playing politics with their lives. you fight to win-period. and thats not just with bombs either. right now they are all sitting ducks waiting for the attorney and chief to make up his attorney mindset up.

I know how well schooled you are in military strategy but I still thought you might like to read this from one of your right wing web sites.

CNSNews.com - In Afghanistan, International Troops Outnumber Taliban 12-1

I know how well schooled you are in military strategy but I still thought you might like to read this from one of your right wing web sites.

CNSNews.com - In Afghanistan, International Troops Outnumber Taliban 12-1

respectfully, you truly are lost.

right wing web site? have olby teach you a new line.

do you have a clue about afghan, i mean really... its not just defeating the taliban, but whats the use talking to you about this you could care less. your more interested in playing hateful liberal politics. i remember when i was young and liberal and couldnt think clearly. maybe someday youll see the light. until than we all have to hear your childish dribble. got to love how you just google something and post it. yea, your interested-please

pull out now and get them to pay us back? if it were that easy....

what is with the left and surrendering when things get tough? do we really need a scar like vietnam? are you prepared to swallow the rep our nation will get after pulling out? are you willing to accept the fallen in vein? are you willing to accept the fact that terrorists worldwide will be emboldened by our retreat? are any of these something you consider or is just waving the white flag the easiest solution to comprehend?

The scar of Vietnam was the realization of our own stupidity for getting involved with that mess in the first place and sticking with it for so long. People with your view continually pick the scab.

The scar of Vietnam was the realization of our own stupidity for getting involved with that mess in the first place and sticking with it for so long. People with your view continually to pick the scab.

i would actually agree with you that we shouldnt have entered that war. but, if you do than you fight to win. the intention was good, but politicians brought about defeat. politicians brought that scare onto this nation, not the military or their lack of competence

people like me pick the scab? why because i bring it up? its the left in this nation that compares every single solitary conflict to vietnam and uses it to smear the nation to the world. it was people like teddy that said iraq was bush's vietnam. do i need to keep going or do you finally get the point? get a grip would ya

i would actually agree with you that we shouldnt have entered that war. but, if you do than you fight to win. the intention was good, but politicians brought about defeat. politicians brought that scare onto this nation, not the military or their lack of competence

people like me pick the scab? why because i bring it up? its the left in this nation that compares every single solitary conflict to vietnam and uses it to smear the nation to the world. it was people like teddy that said iraq was bush's vietnam. do i need to keep going or do you finally get the point? get a grip would ya

The only point I get is that you can't get over our failure in Vietnam and you view every unnecessary conflict we mindlessly enter as some sort of do-over to make up for that failure. Maybe you should take a closer look at what's in the koolaid old Ollie North is feeding to you.

respectfully, you truly are lost.

right wing web site? have olby teach you a new line.

do you have a clue about afghan, i mean really... its not just defeating the taliban, but whats the use talking to you about this you could care less. your more interested in playing hateful liberal politics. i remember when i was young and liberal and couldnt think clearly. maybe someday youll see the light. until than we all have to hear your childish dribble. got to love how you just google something and post it. yea, your interested-please

Check the bios of the staff at CNSN starting with Terry Jeffrey the Editor in Chief and then please enlighten me with your vast talk radio knowledge and first hand experience of military strategy and Afgan politics oh wise one. I just love your dumb know everything but refuse to back it up posts, they make my day.

Year + is not of this day and age as you say. I spent two tours in Viet Nam. This is nothing NEW. 13 months in Korea, where did you find that this was of this day and age?

Jack

You are so dated and do not currently have your facts correct.

Re read my post....high demand/low density in the combat support and a couple like medical in combat service support branches, ie medical are pulling longer than 12 month deployments and all by exception.

And nothing has changed for Korea. Still a 13 month tour with a 30 day R&R in the middle, if unaccompanied. 24 months if family goes with you! Where you in the Korean War or just a regular 13 month tour in Korea?

I will explain later where I get my facts. Just don't have any time to waste right now.