Catholic Church Denies Kennedy the Right to Take Communion..

Yes, however, annullment in the Catholic Church removes the marriage certificate and bastardizes the children. It basically states that the marriage NEVER took place. It is a lot of paperwork and must have the blessing of the Pope.

It was brought up because the Church seems to be making some strange moves and certainly has with regard to the Kennedy family. I certainly didn't appreciate the original poster telling me to stay on point. I believe a more candid conversation with respect such as asking a question if he/she didn't understand would have carried a lot more credibility. But, I respect his/her freedom of speech and will continue with my rights.

part of your statement is true about annulment but the other part is way way off base. here is Catholic Annulment 101, as follows. no, it seems illogical but it is what the church offers for divorced members. in no way are children bastardized. children have blessed the parents and family no matter what happens on paper between the parents. the church has the ultimate respect for life and children and would never stand for placing that kind of criteria on a child. when a marriage is annulled, the children are the blessings that we keep and cherish. its like the Virgin Mary who remains a virgin, and all sorts of other seemingly bizarre events that serve as the basis for Christianity - it may not make sense but the church says it is so, so it is. (at least in the minds of some followers. some of us followers make up our own rules).

Alpha stated his criteria for his thread and that should be respected by anyone wanting to participate. I don't really blame him/her. why argue or be offended? not worth it, imo. of course, you may continue to participate in any way you choose. no one said otherwise.

btw, I totally buy the Virgin Mary thing. I think she is Mother Earth (from the pagan days) - she was just revised and updated for Christians.

Watched Hardball with Chris Mathews last night--I think he was succint in his criticism of the Catholic Bishop: I think it really all comes down to the inherent need for a seperation of Church and State....


"This bishop has brought discredit to the Catholic Church by going beyond the separation of state and church that has to exist. He stated that Kennedy started the row but overall, religions cannot interfere with lawmakers who have to represent the country and not their particular religious leaders.

This bishop, who is an admitted political junkie, just got carried away and is sure to back down.

"All that it takes is a little analysis. How can any religious leader tell their followers how to make political decisions? If his logic was followed, no Catholics could be elected to office. They could not even serve on juries if they were to say that they could not follow what the law or judge says if it disagrees with their church says." -Chris Mathews

Many threads here take a different turn. My comment, post #4, was to point out inconsistencies with the Catholic Church. Alpha Crab is the one who jumped to conclusions and took offense instead of inquiring. I wasn't the only post he made a comment to, either. With this Tootsie, I am done with banters with you~~~~~~~~

Interesting point, LS. And, not just Supreme Court Justices either.

This is just another episode of the church trying to control the behavior of its members through fear and intimidation. Fear of being sent to hell for critical thinking and intimidation by the withholding of Holy Communion or the threat of excommunication.

LS I like your question on the SC justices. We will never know many times religious views of all types have clouded the opinions and decisions handed down over the years.

No, not just SC justices. What I think is that appointed officials fully understand the futility in attacking appointed officials. It also boils down to selectively picking battles you think you can win.

The Roman Catholic bishop of Rhode Island says he asked Rep. Patrick Kennedy to stop receiving Holy Communion in 2007 because of the lawmaker's support for abortion.

Kennedy told The Providence Journal in a story published Sunday that Tobin "instructed" him not to receive Communion because of his abortion rights stance.

The Church sets out specific guidelines regarding how we should prepare ourselves to receive the Lord’s body and blood in Communion. To receive Communion worthily, you must be in a state of grace, have made a good confession since your last mortal sin, believe in transubstantiation, observe the Eucharistic fast, and, finally, not be under an ecclesiastical censure such as excommunication.

A mortal sin is any sin whose matter is grave and which has been committed willfully and with knowledge of its seriousness. Grave matter includes, but is not limited to, murder, receiving or participating in an abortion, homosexual acts, having sexual intercourse outside of marriage or in an invalid marriage, and deliberately engaging in impure thoughts (Matt. 5:28–29). Scripture contains lists of mortal sins

Interesting rebuttal of facts. And, sad that the Church actually excludes.

Receiving the sacrament? Technically it's the receiver who should be excluding themselves in this case. I find it odd the criticism is on the Church, it should be on Kennedy. He shows just how little respect he has for the church and scripture he supposedly follows.

I speak from personal experience - I am not a good catholic, I do not go to confession, and I do not attend church regularly. However I do occasionally attend. I haven't received in well over 20 years, there's a moral boundary there I simply can't cross. Kennedy, who I'd imagine is no better a christian than myself (or likely worse considering the family he comes from), is whining because the church chastised him for making the opposite decision? Good for them, shame on Kennedy for being a pompous ass.

I agree with you from the respect of following your respective religious doctrines. Is it possible that he is a Kennedy and is leveraging their name?

When I first became Episopalian, we could only receive communion if had been baptized and even that has been removed from our doctrines so that now anyone can receive the sacraments.

As I said earlier, the Congregants are the backbone of the Catholic Church and you have taken the Catechism and teachings very seriously! I would say that you are a good Catholic because you do follow the teachings.

I just don't like exclusions and when I go to a Catholic Church, I am respectful and do not take Communion, but do receive a blessing from the Celebrating Priest. Also, I don't believe in the Transubstantiation and therefore my taking of communion in a Catholic Church would go against my beliefs as well as be disrespectful to many people like yourself.

Kennedy getting chastised for receiving communion is the least of their transgressions as far as exclusions go.

I know. ;-)

Hey, you got me thinking about something that is puzzling. I don't know the answer and you might not either, but had a double header funeral earlier this year - both extremely devout Catholic families of whom we grew up together.

GF is half Anglican (her Mother is English) and half Catholic (father). So, we were at funeral #1 that day whispering about receiving a blessing and she said she was taking communion. I replied that if she did, the plaster would crack! She is a member of the Episcopal Church in US and Anglican in England.

However, evidently she received her first communion in the Catholic church and she practices both? Her parents never claimed one or the other for her. Can she do that?

I don't think communion always means much to the people administering it. When I was a a boy Scout camping trip one Sunday, I was basically forced to attend church service and all that were available were Catholic. I was then pressured to eat the cracker and drink the bug juice which I did.

I wish I knew of something you hold very dear and close to your heart.. so I could insult it. :angry:

Alphacrab, this is going to be a tangent. It happens...

I am a recovering catholic. I confess (no pun intended) that I think Lucifersam's cracker/bug juice story is kinda funny. But I also understand why Shopper took offense.

Anywho- I feel the need to share my new found perspective on the sacrament of Holy Communion. I don't think of it as I did for a while as a silly ritual. It's kinda cool actually if you disect the words spoken during the consecration (sp?) and picture a scene out of a movie like Braveheart-

An historic figure senses that he is about to be killed. He is surrounded by his closest friends- his brothers who share a cause. As they partake in their last meal together he holds up his stein, thanks them for being loyal friends, praises their accomplishments and says-

"I will not make it the whole way with you all. But when I am gone I don't want you to forget me and what I stood for. Remember our good times. Gather together often, break bread and raise your glasses. But think not of it as just plain old food and drink. Use it to remember the blood I shed. Toast often in memory of me."

It's kind of a cool ritual if you aren't just going through the motions.

That said- and to get back on topic. IMHO, the priest is out of line. Catholics should decide for themselves if they want to sit this one out.

Some people aren't into ritual, period, so imagine how they feel when it's thrust upon them.

A friend in Memphis will not participate in the Holy Communion ritual because he just can't make himself believe the part where "they cease to be bread and wine, and become instead the Most Precious Body and Blood of Christ".

Your friend is taking things too literally. Catholics don't believe bread and wine physically transform. They are breaking bread and toasting their hero's memory.