Replies
70
SoWal Expert
NO! :angry:
Santa is the anti-Satan, spreading joy, the message of giving, promoting good behavior, and increasing family togetherness.
Santa is the anti-Satan, spreading joy, the message of giving, promoting good behavior, and increasing family togetherness.
SoWal Insider
Let's see... he's obese, has way too much facial hair, only wears one outfit all year long, and only works one day per year! He may not be Satan, but man, he's kinda like a slacker, isn't he? 
Beach Fanatic
I don't believe in Satan.
SoWal Expert
Let's see... he's obese, has way too much facial hair, only wears one outfit all year long, and only works one day per year! He may not be Satan, but man, he's kinda like a slacker, isn't he?I'll give you the gut, but the beard, seasonal employment, and one nice holiday outfit that gets worn year after year is all standard Midwest/UP!
Beach Lover
I don't believe in Satan.If you believe in God you better believe in Satan!
Beach Fanatic
If you believe in God you better believe in Satan!
The concept of God spans many religions and faiths. Satan is primarily a Judeo Christian construct and doesn't necessarily have to go hand in hand with the concept of God.
Ps. Santa Claus is an amazing force for good and this thread is lame to have started in the first place. I hope the OP is on Santa's naughty list this year! ;-)
Banned
I guess if you rearrange the letters.
Beach Comber
Well, first, Santa is not affiliated with any one religion, he is just affiliated with this particular holiday, so it isn't possible for him to be Satan. Second, his positive actions would fly in the face of everything that Satan would supposedly want.
I can imagine that you might yourself on his bad side if you suggest that he is the epitome of all evil though. I can't imagine him appreciating that, especially after all he does to make your holiday special year after year, for no pay. Seriously the guy is an example for all charitable organizations, which is another reason why he can't be Satan... I can't see Satan doing anything charitable.
I can imagine that you might yourself on his bad side if you suggest that he is the epitome of all evil though. I can't imagine him appreciating that, especially after all he does to make your holiday special year after year, for no pay. Seriously the guy is an example for all charitable organizations, which is another reason why he can't be Satan... I can't see Satan doing anything charitable.
Beach Fanatic
strange question
how do "plot against" and "saint nick" even remotely resemble the other one? One is representative of the good and positive things in life, the other is a fallen archangel on the long black train to hell. I can't prove it, but you can't disprove it. just curious
how do "plot against" and "saint nick" even remotely resemble the other one? One is representative of the good and positive things in life, the other is a fallen archangel on the long black train to hell. I can't prove it, but you can't disprove it. just curiousBeach Fanatic
It is the year 2009 and we are discussing whether Santa (mythical creature) is Satan (mythical creature). I just think it is funny. 
It is like discussing Leprechauns and unicorns.But others find this a very serious subject matter
SANTA CLAUS: The Great Imposter
Just enjoy the holidays and if it really worries anyone, ditch it all and celebrate the solstice - blasphemy I know! ;-)
G
SoWal Insider
What?? No unicorns...
Beach Fanatic
What?? No unicorns...
I didn't say NO unicorns
I just don't BELIEVE in them lol! ;-)
Beach Fanatic
I guess if you rearrange the letters.
SoWal Insider
Ole Nick Satan........roll tide!!!!
Beach Fanatic
Ole Nick Satan........roll tide!!!!
Hey - being an old LSU gal I'd say there are some who would not think this a joke!
Not I mind you - I'm not insane when it comes to football!
G
SoWal Expert
The Origin of Santa Claus and the Christian Response to Him
"...Conclusion
When conclusions are drawn about the origin of Santa Claus, extreme statements should be avoided. This short article has shown that the modern Santa Claus has been shaped by many factors and is a conglomeration of myths and legends. I feel compelled, however, to make several observations.
First, it is absolutely inaccurate to claim that "Santa Claus is a Christian" or that "Santa Claus is St. Nicholas." Though it is true that the historical St. Nicholas was a Christian man, the preceding has shown that the modern Santa Claus has nothing to do with Nicholas of Myra, other than his name. The modern Santa Claus has been greatly influenced by the custom of "the visit of St. Nicholas," in which the saint would show up on the eve of his Feast Day to give gifts to children. But the custom of his "visit" is certainly not based on the historical man; rather it is based on legends attached to him, and it is possibly based on preChristian myths (about Odin, Thor, etc.). It is also a rather silly and misleading argument to state that "Nicholas was generous and Santa Claus is generous, so the same spirit permeates both." Right!
Second, it is also absolutely inaccurate to claim that "Santa Claus is pagan" without any further explanation. We need to be clear what we mean by "pagan." If by "pagan" we mean "non-Christian" then the statement is accurate in the sense that I gave in the paragraph above. However, because "pagan" has such a pejorative sense to it, I prefer to say that "Santa Claus is a fairy tale" along the lines of the tooth fairy - which leads to my next point.
Third, the real problem that Christians should have with Santa Claus is that he has been associated with Christmas. When we survey the history of the evolution of Santa Claus, the critical point occurred, in my opinion, when the St. Nicholas visit was transferred from Dec. 6 to Dec. 25. Christians would have no major problem with a make-believe custom about St. Nicholas bringing gifts on his own day. Christians do (or at least should) have a major problem with moving the St. Nicholas thing to Christmas and, even worse, calling it Christmas!
Put simply, do the Santa Claus thing to your heart's content, but don't call it Christmas! For Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ our Savior, nothing more and nothing less. Christians are rightly offended when the Santa Claus fairy tale is called Christmas instead. A good and practical solution would be to move the Santa Claus holiday back to its traditional date of Dec. 6. But of course, it is highly unlikely that this will happen.
Perhaps Christians should celebrate Christ's birth at another time of the year - especially since we do not know the date he was actually born. January 6 is an improvement, but it is still too close to the Santa Claus fest, in my opinion. Again, I won't hold my breath waiting for this to happen!
Ultimately it is impossible, of course, to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ without competition from other festivals and observances - no matter what date is picked. This is the reason why I have stated that the main problem is not the competing festivals (e.g., Santa Claus) themselves; the main problem is calling the competing festivals "Christmas." Our message to the world should be, "Santa Claus, in and of itself, can be a fun custom. Just don't call it Christmas!""
********************
Interesting last paragraph, since the Church chose Dec 25 to celebrate Jesus' birth, which happened to directly compete with pagans, who had their largest celebration on Dec 25.
Tailwagger, so that you don't completely break one of the very few rules of the message board about starting a controversial thread just to stir pudding, why don't you share your thoughts of the the Satan vs Santa issue?
"...Conclusion
When conclusions are drawn about the origin of Santa Claus, extreme statements should be avoided. This short article has shown that the modern Santa Claus has been shaped by many factors and is a conglomeration of myths and legends. I feel compelled, however, to make several observations.
First, it is absolutely inaccurate to claim that "Santa Claus is a Christian" or that "Santa Claus is St. Nicholas." Though it is true that the historical St. Nicholas was a Christian man, the preceding has shown that the modern Santa Claus has nothing to do with Nicholas of Myra, other than his name. The modern Santa Claus has been greatly influenced by the custom of "the visit of St. Nicholas," in which the saint would show up on the eve of his Feast Day to give gifts to children. But the custom of his "visit" is certainly not based on the historical man; rather it is based on legends attached to him, and it is possibly based on preChristian myths (about Odin, Thor, etc.). It is also a rather silly and misleading argument to state that "Nicholas was generous and Santa Claus is generous, so the same spirit permeates both." Right!
Second, it is also absolutely inaccurate to claim that "Santa Claus is pagan" without any further explanation. We need to be clear what we mean by "pagan." If by "pagan" we mean "non-Christian" then the statement is accurate in the sense that I gave in the paragraph above. However, because "pagan" has such a pejorative sense to it, I prefer to say that "Santa Claus is a fairy tale" along the lines of the tooth fairy - which leads to my next point.
Third, the real problem that Christians should have with Santa Claus is that he has been associated with Christmas. When we survey the history of the evolution of Santa Claus, the critical point occurred, in my opinion, when the St. Nicholas visit was transferred from Dec. 6 to Dec. 25. Christians would have no major problem with a make-believe custom about St. Nicholas bringing gifts on his own day. Christians do (or at least should) have a major problem with moving the St. Nicholas thing to Christmas and, even worse, calling it Christmas!
Put simply, do the Santa Claus thing to your heart's content, but don't call it Christmas! For Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ our Savior, nothing more and nothing less. Christians are rightly offended when the Santa Claus fairy tale is called Christmas instead. A good and practical solution would be to move the Santa Claus holiday back to its traditional date of Dec. 6. But of course, it is highly unlikely that this will happen.
Perhaps Christians should celebrate Christ's birth at another time of the year - especially since we do not know the date he was actually born. January 6 is an improvement, but it is still too close to the Santa Claus fest, in my opinion. Again, I won't hold my breath waiting for this to happen!
Ultimately it is impossible, of course, to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ without competition from other festivals and observances - no matter what date is picked. This is the reason why I have stated that the main problem is not the competing festivals (e.g., Santa Claus) themselves; the main problem is calling the competing festivals "Christmas." Our message to the world should be, "Santa Claus, in and of itself, can be a fun custom. Just don't call it Christmas!""
********************
Interesting last paragraph, since the Church chose Dec 25 to celebrate Jesus' birth, which happened to directly compete with pagans, who had their largest celebration on Dec 25.
Tailwagger, so that you don't completely break one of the very few rules of the message board about starting a controversial thread just to stir pudding, why don't you share your thoughts of the the Satan vs Santa issue?
SoWal Expert
Beach Fanatic
Tailwagger, so that you don't completely break one of the very few rules of the message board about starting a controversial thread just to stir pudding, why don't you share your thoughts of the the Satan vs Santa issue?
Excellent suggestion JOe
SoWal Expert
The Christian church didn't choose the 25th to compete, they knew the best way to get acceptance/gain followers was to include parts of the existing religion in theirs - a trick they learned from earlier religions.
Also why there are so many striking similarities between Jesus and Mithrias.
Also why there are so many striking similarities between Jesus and Mithrias.
Beach Fanatic
The Christian church didn't choose the 25th to compete, they knew the best way to get acceptance/gain followers was to include parts of the existing religion in theirs - a trick they learned from earlier religions.
Also why there are so many striking similarities between Jesus and Mithrias.
Exactly!
t seems that just before Jesus there was another god known as Mithras (or Mithra). Mithras, oddly enough, has the same birthdate as Jesus, but some 600 years earlier! Not only that, but he was also born of a virgin, with a few shepherds present. Mithras, a traveling teacher and master, had 12 disciples as he performed miracles. Just like Jesus, Mithras was buried in a tomb, died, and after three days was resurrected and rose
again! (It must be the way gods did things back then.) Known as the way, the Truth, the Light, the Redeemer, the Messiah, the Savior, the word, the Son of God, and the Good Shepherd, Mithras was sometimes pictured carrying a lamb on his shoulders. Sunday was sacred to the followers of Mithras and called it the Lords Day.
Mithraism hit Rome in the first century BC as the Mithraic cult fled Persia. Here it flourished as the Sun God Natalis Solis Invicti. The leader of this religion ruled from what is now Vatican hill, which is a place previously sacred to Mithras. This male leader was called Papa (which is how we get the word Pope). Books in honor of Mithras were called Helio Biblia, which translates to us as either 
Sun Book or Holy Bible.
Sun Book or Holy Bible.But wait! . . . Merry Krishnatoo!
Before Mithras there was Krishna in India, circa 1200 BC. Krishna was born of the Virgin Mother Devaki after being visited by spirits to announce the impending birth of an immaculately conceived child who is Gods Sun and the son of God. His birth was attended by wise men, as well as shepherds. Krishna was presented at birth with frankincense, myrrh, and gold. Krishna worked miracles, restored sight, cast out devils, and raised the dead. 
Many hundreds of years before both Mithras AND Jesus, Krishna was baptized in the River Ganges, crucified between two thieves, died, buried, and resurrected in three days and worshiped as the savior of men. He proclaimed himself the Resurrection and the way to the Father.
He was said to be without sin, of royal descent, and raised by a human father that was . . . a carpenter. He preached of a great and final day of judgment and used parables to teach the people about charity and love. In death he stood transfigured in front of his disciples. Krishna was called the Shepherd God, Lord of lords, the Redeemer, and the Universal Word. He was considered, Alpha and Omega as well as being omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent.
He was prophesized to return to battle evil forces in a second coming. His disciples bestowed on him a word that means pure essence. That word is Jezeus.
But, oh no! Thats not all! Check it out:
HAPPY HORUS
everybody!
HAPPY HORUS
everybody!
Thousands of years before Krishna, Mithras, and Jesus is the sun god Horus.
Horus goes back to Egypt circa 3000 BC. Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25 in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men. In the catacombs at Rome are pictures of the baby Horus being held by the virgin mother Isis. Horus taught in the temple when he was a child. He was baptized when he was 30 years old by Anup the Baptizer. Horus performed miracles and raised a man named El-Azar-us, from the dead. Not only did Horus walk on w
ater, he was also crucified, buried in a tomb, and then resurrected.
ater, he was also crucified, buried in a tomb, and then resurrected.Horus was known as the Way, the Fisher, the Truth, the Light, God's Anointed Son, the Son of Man, the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of God, and the Word. He was also was called the KRST, or Anointed One. There was a trinity with Horus: Atum the Father and Ra the Holy Spirit. Add Horus and we have the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In the later years of Horus he had 12 disciples known as Har-Khuttie. Horus had an enemy (originally this was also the dark side of Horus, or his other face). This evil enemy was Set or Sata. Horus struggles with Sata for 40 days in the wilderness. Some claim that this myth represents the triumph of light over dark. This triumph is most noted on December 25.
In fact, lots of Gods share this birthday!
The Greek god Attis, born of the Virgin Nana, (or sometimes Cybelem) on December 25 and was 
reborn and rose from the dead on the third day. Attis was both the Father and the Divine Son. His crucifixion and subsequent resurrection were celebrated annually, with ritual communions of bread and wine. The wine represented the God's blood; the bread became the body of the savior.
reborn and rose from the dead on the third day. Attis was both the Father and the Divine Son. His crucifixion and subsequent resurrection were celebrated annually, with ritual communions of bread and wine. The wine represented the God's blood; the bread became the body of the savior. Adonis born on December 25 was son of the virgin Myrha. Hermes born on December 25 was the son of the virgin Maia, as well as a member of a holy trinity Hermes Tris-Megistus. The god Dionysus, born on December 25, turned water into wine. Bacchus, born on December 25, was crucified in 200 BCE. Prometheus, born on December 25, descended from heaven as God incarnate as man, to save mankind, and was crucified, suffered, and rose from the dead.,
Nimrod was represented in a dual role of God the Father and Ninus, the son of Semiramis, and her olive branch was symbolic of this offspring produced through a virgin birth. Ninus was also known as Tammuz who was said to have been crucified with a lamb at his feet and placed in a cave. 
When a rock was rolled away from tile cave's entrance three days later, his body had disappeared. Nimrod 
was symbolized by a fish and the origins of the Popes nutre shaped like a fish head. Nimrod was the son of Cush. Nimrod was a Mason. The Tower of Babel was one of the most ancient traditions of Masonry.
When a rock was rolled away from tile cave's entrance three days later, his body had disappeared. Nimrod was symbolized by a fish and the origins of the Popes nutre shaped like a fish head. Nimrod was the son of Cush. Nimrod was a Mason. The Tower of Babel was one of the most ancient traditions of Masonry.The original Christmas festival originated in the Babylon founded by Nimrod, the grandson of Ham, the son of Noah. Nimrod originated the Babylonish system of organised competition, man-ruled governments and empires based upon the competitive and profit-making economic system. Nimrod who built the original tower of Babel, the first city of Babylon, Nineveh (the capital of Assyria) and many other commercial and pagan-religious centres.
Nimrod married his own mother, Semiramis. Legend has it, after his untimely death, she claimed that a full-grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead tree stump, which symbolised the 
springing forth unto new life of the dead Nimrod. On each anniversary of his birth, she claimed, Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts upon it. 25 December was the birthday of Nimrod. It is from this myth, created by a woman living in an incestuous relationship, that we get the original Christmas tree.
*****************
I didn't share this to start any debate about Jesus, but am sharing because when I first learned of this many years ago I was fascinated. Thought others might be too.
G
springing forth unto new life of the dead Nimrod. On each anniversary of his birth, she claimed, Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts upon it. 25 December was the birthday of Nimrod. It is from this myth, created by a woman living in an incestuous relationship, that we get the original Christmas tree.*****************
I didn't share this to start any debate about Jesus, but am sharing because when I first learned of this many years ago I was fascinated. Thought others might be too.
G
SoWal Insider
all I can say is: wow...this certainly puts a new twist on this thread...
Beach Fanatic
Troll bread and lurker soup
Banned
A few words about the term Nimrod. It's negative meaning comes from Bugs Bunny referring to hunter adversary Elmer Fudd as ?poor little Nimrod?. It's kind of like sarcastically referring to your slow witted friend as "Einstein". Most viewers didn't pick up on the reference. I certainly didn't
The Story Behind the Term Nimrod - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com
excerpt:I'm sure the writer had no idea that he was about to take a name, Nimrod, that for over 4,000 years had meant "a great hunter"; and turn it into a word meaning a dolt. This was also a testament to the popularity of Bugs Bunny and his influence on the culture.
From the archives: Bugs Bunny is Jewish ? The Journal of Cartoon Overanalyzations
The Story Behind the Term Nimrod - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com
excerpt:I'm sure the writer had no idea that he was about to take a name, Nimrod, that for over 4,000 years had meant "a great hunter"; and turn it into a word meaning a dolt. This was also a testament to the popularity of Bugs Bunny and his influence on the culture.
From the archives: Bugs Bunny is Jewish ? The Journal of Cartoon Overanalyzations
Beach Fanatic
all I can say is: wow...this certainly puts a new twist on this thread...
It does - and perhaps that wasn't the "theme" of the thread but I really can't figure out what the purpose of the thread is
.Once the article was put up regarding Santa from a Christian perspective, it kind of opened up the whole historical aspect of the birth of Jesus which led to the fact that the date of his birth, Christmas, has an interesting background as do many other aspects of Christianity. I find it so fascinating that the stories have been carried down for so long and borrow from one another. Many people do not know this. Yet, I am in no way bashing the faith of Christians. I don't think it subtracts from faith to learn of these things. LOL I first learned of this connection to Mithras, etc... from a VERY pious individual (he never missed Mass!) He was a scholar and I attended one of his seminars on this very subject. Most there were indeed very faithful followers of Christ. It was a seminar rich with discussion and "ah ha's" and "how about that's" and "I didn't know that's". So I am hoping that most reading this will feel the same and not take it as blasphemy.
Now back to Santa and Satan. ;-)
G
Beach Fanatic
I'm just glad I'm not "DEEP THINKER" like the rest of you, because I can't wait to see my grandchildrens eyes on Christmas morning to see what Santa brought them.
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