Which God do you serve?

The dollar is no different from the Franc, the Euro , or the Canadian dollar. The American Flag is a flag, no different from Japan's, Germany's or Iceland's flag, it is a representation, like a surname...God is God..not a specific American invention.

There is a greater good that any individual or nation can tap into, no matter what you call "God," what you call your "money", or what colored piece of cloth you raise on your flag pole.

Frankly, this post almost sounts like one of Sarah Palin's populist "mixed" messages, meant to confuse and divide.

The Creator or The almighty dollar?

Are these my only choices?

I think you are making the assumption that the principles of integrity, goodness and compassion have to go hand in hand with religion. I personally believe these principles are an integral part of being human and the separation of religion and politics has nothing to do with their moral and ethical implementation or existence. The bottom line is freedom. Whether it be the freedom of religion or the freedom from religion, this ability of free will is what makes our country great. Any 'silent cancer' would be the attempt to take this freedom from us...to make those choices for us...

Where's the group hug smilie when you need it?

My God allows me to worship as I please and find the greatness in everything that surrounds me.

The either/or basis of this thread is quite limiting as expressed above. This will generate much discussion, I expect.

I think you are making the assumption that the principles of integrity, goodness and compassion have to go hand in hand with religion. I personally believe these principles are an integral part of being human and the separation of religion and politics has nothing to do with their moral and ethical implementation or existence. The bottom line is freedom. Whether it be the freedom of religion or the freedom from religion, this ability of free will is what makes our country great. Any 'silent cancer' would be the attempt to take this freedom from us...to make those choices for us...

thank you for the beautiful words douglas!

I think you are making the assumption that the principles of integrity, goodness and compassion have to go hand in hand with religion. I personally believe these principles are an integral part of being human and the separation of religion and politics has nothing to do with their moral and ethical implementation or existence. The bottom line is freedom. Whether it be the freedom of religion or the freedom from religion, this ability of free will is what makes our country great. Any 'silent cancer' would be the attempt to take this freedom from us...to make those choices for us...

Why? What physical or mental attributes do we posess that promote "goodness and compassion" in our actions? What is the purpose of being good and compassionate?

Why? What physical attribute do we posess that promotes "goodness and compassion" in our actions?

I didn't state these principles were 'physical' or actioned. I stated they were part of being human. Whether you implement them is part of free will. Some things in life need neither a purpose or a reason.

is there some current issue that brings about this discussion? Did the Supreme Court make another recent decision to change the course of our country and our lives?

but, in all seriousness, I do believe the goodness, kindness, generosity, loving, beautiful human spirit of the people of America cannot be so easily taken away. We choose our leaders. We choose our path. change is life (just one SC decision can change the direction of our lives significantly. or wording on a coin may be altered as it has been several times in history...). . no matter! our spirits stay strong and good and free. No one can take God from you. No one can take your faith from you. No one can persecute you for worshipping or not worshipping. No one can force you to fly a flag or not fly a flag. These very freedoms gave birth to America. there may be those who do not understand or appreciate these freedoms.. but as far as I know, there is no one trying to take them.

Great. Another person who, despite evidence to the contrary, still believes this nation was founded by Christians for Christians. The founding fathers went to great pains to exclude any language that promoted any particular religion. Why is that such a difficult concept for some? I am very happy to be protected from a state sponsored religion, whatever it is. I am free to believe whatever I choose, just as the people who wrote the constitution intended.

I serve the God who doesn't feel the need to constantly preach at me and for whom faith has no personal or political agenda.

Religion, faith, goodness, and morals are all very different things and I am very tired of those who confuse them while attempting to push an "ist" agenda.

The Creator or The almighty dollar?

Do you seriously think, considering the direction this country is headed, that everyone in this country is interested in the greater good of America.
As innocent as some people see it, the removal of the representation of God in government because of the love of humanity for which He stands, is a silent cancer undetected.
Do you really think, once the principles of integrity are gone that your representation is going to make decisions in light of what is best for you and the country.
I don't think so!

Take a good look at the American Flag while you still can.
I smell the coffee, you might need some.


Common misconception:
People always say money is evil, it is not, it is simply a currency used in commerce.
The love of money in the bible is referring to a form of worship that implies one is willing to do whatever it takes to obtain that money and once obtained to exert power in whatever manner they see fit.
It is good to have enough money to be able to take care of your family and give to others-poverty is not a good thing, neither is corruption.

Your whole post is loaded with with leading questions and assumes a shared worldview at some fundamental level. The thread title alone is leading. Tell me, in what direction is the country headed, and how will God help the situation (assuming one believes)? These are just samples of objections I have to your post. Why not be direct and simply state your beliefs before trying to bring everybody on board?

Galatians Chapter Five which says:
“But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.”

Great. Another person who, despite evidence to the contrary, still believes this nation was founded by Christians for Christians. The founding fathers went to great pains to exclude any language that promoted any particular religion. Why is that such a difficult concept for some? I am very happy to be protected from a state sponsored religion, whatever it is. I am free to believe whatever I choose, just as the people who wrote the constitution intended.

this is the question of the century.

It would be nice if you would refrain from speaking in code when trying to explain your views. That's only going to appeal to those already indoctrinated.

Surely I do not have to explain love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.

If I do, I am afraid that is way beyond my ability to articulate.

Star Trek episode 212.

Seriously?! What does Warf at an intergalactic casino have to do with this thread? Episode 304 is far more pertinent. :roll:;-)

Minnie's post made perfect sense, even without biblical knowledge. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control transcend religion and are worthy goals for humanity regardless of belief structure.

Once a precedent/precedents have been set, it can be used later in a court of law to persuade the court or dissuade the court in their favor.
We have three things to consider, the big picture, the little picture, and the end result.
For example:
The little picture- The removal of scripture from military equipment. The guns still work as well as they did before so this would be insignificant if only focusing on the matter at hand.
The big picture- Each precedent of "the removal of the words of God" in America has paved a path to ultimately and finally exclude God from our government by enacting it into law. Instead of one nation under God, it would be one nation under?
The end result- Who has the most money will win. If mankind had the capability to set his own standards and the willpower to live up to them we would be seeing what we are seeing on the earth today.

There is a situation coming up now in our backyard- oil drilling. Are we not vulnerable in this economy financially. Are we going to act with integrity or are we going to pad our pockets?

I am not advocating that everyone should become a christian, I already know this is not going to happen, nor am I against anybody that is not a christian. Historically speaking, there are many positive contributors to society from all kinds of backgrounds, this is not my focus here.

I am pointing out facts that are true, already happening, and that the choices we make now as citizens will affect our future. Kurt, you're funny, yeah there are probably a million gods, but I was bringing up the choices God pointed out in the bible.

It goes back to the same question I asked before, What is the standard of the belief system for our country as a nation. If it is based on the christian God, you do have a choice to worship whatever/whoever you want. God obviously isn't going to strike you dead. If he was it would have already happened with that pic you posted the other day SWGB Lay your feathers back down, cluckers, I like SWGB and am razzing him. If it is based on human ideals, who decides what the standard is for the nation and are you as a people going to be able to protect those ideals if one is elected that doesn't know God, doesn't care about humanity, and has his/her own agenda? Have you never been deceived? What baton are we passing from generation to generation? I'm speaking of future events that could happen if we do not make the correct decisions for our nation. We cannot depend on human goodness alone. The laws must ensure that people have the right to worship/not worship, but we must watch and speak up for integrity and speak against monetary bribes.
Beachark, I'm not familiar with what Sarah Palin says, but my motive is to point out the difference between acting with integrity based on concern for the greater good of the people or acting in selfishness based on one's own agenda for personal gain. If the first is one's agenda then there is no need to be concerned, if the second is one's agenda my prayer is that it will be found out and eliminated.
Lucifersam, the shared worldview would be that everyone wants to live in a free country, but to secure those rights we must be aware of what is actually happening behind the scenes, not just on the surface. I may have skipped over saying your name personally, but read your posts and tried to cover what you asked the best way I could. I am not advocating becoming a christian, but to accept christian principles like truth, integrity, and character is what is important if we are interested in a free country not run by big money with their own agenda. Thanks Minnie for the reminder, you are a rose with no thorns. Tootsie you are always trying to see other people's point of view and find common ground. Douglas the intrepid, we don't have the same choice of music in common. You seem nice, but your choice of music makes me wonder.Whaddyasay, I don't think this country was founded just for christians, quite the contrary. John R love to hear what you have to say. 30ashopper, there is a road to hell because God gave people freedom of will to make their own choices. Scooterbug, my agenda has never changed- it is to find truth in every situation. Lucifersam, Minnie isn't speaking in code, it's plain english silly.
To wrap it up, I must say there are a wide array of opinions, but if we are interested in a free country with liberty and justice for all we are on the same page.

Seriously?! What does Warf at an intergalactic casino have to do with this thread? Episode 304 is far more pertinent. :roll:;-)

Minnie's post made perfect sense, even without biblical knowledge. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control transcend religion and are worthy goals for humanity regardless of belief structure.

My bad, I read it too quickly and didn't catch the message below. I'll delete. Sorry to all! Looking at it again I thought the italicized text was her sig. I thought I was being hit with Bible chapter. Yes it's a good message obviously.

I think that removing displays of Christianity from our government would make our country much greater and stronger.

Probably because I recognize that the moral worth of someone is not based on how "Christian" they claim to be (in fact the opposite is usually true IMO - especially if they want your money or vote).

My bad, I read it too quickly and didn't catch the message below. I'll delete. Sorry to all! Looking at it again I thought the italicized test was her sig. I thought I was being hit with Bible chapter. Yes it's a good message obviously.

It's all good even when we don't agree.

I am very tolerant of a difference of opinion, I might let what is happening in my real life sometimes influence my comments and sometimes my written word does not always convey my true feelings, for it is hard at times for me to put into written word what I truly believe and feel.

I believe we accomplish more with actions such as love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control hence the reference to Galatians.

And more often than not I connect with my God in places less structured than a church such as the beach, the woods, the mountains or something as simple as my back yard because much of my beliefs are interwoven with my ancestors, the Cherokee and the Scots.

Douglas the intrepid, we don't have the same choice of music in common. You seem nice, but your choice of music makes me wonder.Whaddyasay,

I say Godsmack and White Zombie rock your socks off! ;-)

I say Godsmack and White Zombie rock your socks off! ;-)

:funn:

I think you are making the assumption that the principles of integrity, goodness and compassion have to go hand in hand with religion. I personally believe these principles are an integral part of being human and the separation of religion and politics has nothing to do with their moral and ethical implementation or existence. The bottom line is freedom. Whether it be the freedom of religion or the freedom from religion, this ability of free will is what makes our country great. Any 'silent cancer' would be the attempt to take this freedom from us...to make those choices for us...

dude, that was goodlike! not godlike.

Once a precedent/precedents have been set, it can be used later in a court of law to persuade the court or dissuade the court in their favor.
We have three things to consider, the big picture, the little picture, and the end result.
For example:
The little picture- The removal of scripture from military equipment. The guns still work as well as they did before so this would be insignificant if only focusing on the matter at hand.
The big picture- Each precedent of "the removal of the words of God" in America has paved a path to ultimately and finally exclude God from our government by enacting it into law. Instead of one nation under God, it would be one nation under?
The end result- Who has the most money will win. If mankind had the capability to set his own standards and the willpower to live up to them we would be seeing what we are seeing on the earth today.

There is a situation coming up now in our backyard- oil drilling. Are we not vulnerable in this economy financially. Are we going to act with integrity or are we going to pad our pockets?

I am not advocating that everyone should become a christian, I already know this is not going to happen, nor am I against anybody that is not a christian. Historically speaking, there are many positive contributors to society from all kinds of backgrounds, this is not my focus here.

I am pointing out facts that are true, already happening, and that the choices we make now as citizens will affect our future. Kurt, you're funny, yeah there are probably a million gods, but I was bringing up the choices God pointed out in the bible.

It goes back to the same question I asked before, What is the standard of the belief system for our country as a nation. If it is based on the christian God, you do have a choice to worship whatever/whoever you want. God obviously isn't going to strike you dead. If he was it would have already happened with that pic you posted the other day SWGB Lay your feathers back down, cluckers, I like SWGB and am razzing him. If it is based on human ideals, who decides what the standard is for the nation and are you as a people going to be able to protect those ideals if one is elected that doesn't know God, doesn't care about humanity, and has his/her own agenda? Have you never been deceived? What baton are we passing from generation to generation? I'm speaking of future events that could happen if we do not make the correct decisions for our nation. We cannot depend on human goodness alone. The laws must ensure that people have the right to worship/not worship, but we must watch and speak up for integrity and speak against monetary bribes.
Beachark, I'm not familiar with what Sarah Palin says, but my motive is to point out the difference between acting with integrity based on concern for the greater good of the people or acting in selfishness based on one's own agenda for personal gain. If the first is one's agenda then there is no need to be concerned, if the second is one's agenda my prayer is that it will be found out and eliminated.
Lucifersam, the shared worldview would be that everyone wants to live in a free country, but to secure those rights we must be aware of what is actually happening behind the scenes, not just on the surface. I may have skipped over saying your name personally, but read your posts and tried to cover what you asked the best way I could. I am not advocating becoming a christian, but to accept christian principles like truth, integrity, and character is what is important if we are interested in a free country not run by big money with their own agenda. Thanks Minnie for the reminder, you are a rose with no thorns. Tootsie you are always trying to see other people's point of view and find common ground. Douglas the intrepid, we don't have the same choice of music in common. You seem nice, but your choice of music makes me wonder.Whaddyasay, I don't think this country was founded just for christians, quite the contrary. John R love to hear what you have to say. 30ashopper, there is a road to hell because God gave people freedom of will to make their own choices. Scooterbug, my agenda has never changed- it is to find truth in every situation. Lucifersam, Minnie isn't speaking in code, it's plain english silly.
To wrap it up, I must say there are a wide array of opinions, but if we are interested in a free country with liberty and justice for all we are on the same page.

religion and all the conflicts caused by differing religious views is the bane of human existence. the very essence of freedom dies in the validation of theocratic groupthink.. is it not enough to have your private religious views? would you exercise your freedom of speech as a jew in iran, or as a hindu in pakistan? no one and no group has ever cornered the market on truth, integrity, and character. all people are created equal. i am free to embrace or reject your scripture based moral compass.

I say Godsmack and White Zombie rock your socks off! ;-)

Darth Vader and the dark side
Back off riders- in razz mode

religion and all the conflicts caused by differing religious views is the bane of human existence. the very essence of freedom dies in the validation of theocratic groupthink.. is it not enough to have your private religious views? would you exercise your freedom of speech as a jew in iran, or as a hindu in pakistan? no one and no group has ever cornered the market on truth, integrity, and character. all people are created equal. i am free to embrace or reject your scripture based moral compass.

Bob are you truly free?
O.k. I'm being mocking in a sick kind of humorous way- haven't spoken to you in awhile
I'll see you on the umami thread