Wow! Did he say it like it is

The health care "crisis" has NOT been created by the insurance industry. Culpable-yes / crisis creators-no.

The crisis in health care has been created by the dysfunctional and wasteful health care delivery system that currently exists in combination with the increase in unhealthy Americans who do not take responsibility for their health, i.e. obesity, smoking, lack of exercise.

If the delivery system could control cost, the insurance industry could establish a stable and affordable premium structure to protect against unforeseen, catastrophic loss.

If you think heath care is expensive now, wait until it is free!

I would contend that the reason the healthcare delivery system is wasteful and dysfunctional because of the current reimbursement system -- the third party payor system is destined for failure, as every good free market conservative since Adam Smith could attest.

The health insurance industry is able to predict loss with stunning accuracy thanks to the fact that all services are contracted, and tied to the federal price schedule known as RBRVS.

I would be willing to bet there's a scandal here.

I would contend that the reason the healthcare delivery system is wasteful and dysfunctional because of the current reimbursement system -- the third party payor system is destined for failure, as every good free market conservative since Adam Smith could attest.

The health insurance industry is able to predict loss with stunning accuracy thanks to the fact that all services are contracted, and tied to the federal price schedule known as RBRVS.

So we are in agreement that the health care delivery system is "wasteful and dysfunctional", correct? How would you recommend reforming the "third party payor system" (that in your opinion is the catalyst for making providers wasteful) when the largest third party payor is the federal government? Obama-Care proposed a reduction of $500 billion in their third party payments to Medicare / Medicaid beneficiaries and to increase the subsidy of health insurance premiums paid to the demonized insurance industry. Do you believe the health "insurance" reform being proposed would exacerbate or lower the cost of health care?

I write this with complete awareness of the stars in my eyes, but I've always liked the way they used to do it in China. Each village had a doctor, and all villagers paid the doctor as long as they stayed well. When they got sick, they stopped paying, till they got well again. Since TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) includes diet and exercise as well as herbs and acupuncture, each villager shared responsibility for staying healthy with the doc.

Because docs got paid for keeping folks well, rather than getting paid for treating them for illness, they learned to detect and remediate imbalances in the system long before any serious disease manifested.

I guess the main idea here is, we have a health care system that is all about sickness, crisis management if you will, rather than about wellness and crisis prevention. Seems pretty wack to me.

I write this with complete awareness of the stars in my eyes, but I've always liked the way they used to do it in China. Each village had a doctor, and all villagers paid the doctor as long as they stayed well. When they got sick, they stopped paying, till they got well again. Since TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) includes diet and exercise as well as herbs and acupuncture, each villager shared responsibility for staying healthy with the doc.

Because docs got paid for keeping folks well, rather than getting paid for treating them for illness, they learned to detect and remediate imbalances in the system long before any serious disease manifested.

I guess the main idea here is, we have a health care system that is all about sickness, crisis management if you will, rather than about wellness and crisis prevention. Seems pretty wack to me.

you are creatively maladjusted. please stay that way.

I write this with complete awareness of the stars in my eyes, but I've always liked the way they used to do it in China. Each village had a doctor, and all villagers paid the doctor as long as they stayed well. When they got sick, they stopped paying, till they got well again. Since TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) includes diet and exercise as well as herbs and acupuncture, each villager shared responsibility for staying healthy with the doc.

Because docs got paid for keeping folks well, rather than getting paid for treating them for illness, they learned to detect and remediate imbalances in the system long before any serious disease manifested.

I guess the main idea here is, we have a health care system that is all about sickness, crisis management if you will, rather than about wellness and crisis prevention. Seems pretty wack to me.

I don't put much trust in medical practices coming from a culture that repeatedly slaughters exotic animals for their aphrodisiac effect speaking of whack.

I don't put much trust in medical practices coming from a culture that repeatedly slaughters exotic animals for their aphrodisiac effect speaking of whack.

Does that mean you like to throw the baby out with the bathwater?

I don't put much trust in medical practices coming from a culture that repeatedly slaughters exotic animals for their aphrodisiac effect speaking of whack.

You should take a good hard look at many "Western" ideas of what is good for you. :roll:

You should take a good hard look at many "Western" ideas of what is good for you. :roll:

I'll take our healthcare, lifestyle, attitude, tradition and culture over theirs any day of the year. I admire their manufacturing capability, thats about it. Of course they have to destroy the environment in th process. I guarantee you in a western minute they drop the charade and use our medical practices when an emergency occurs. They can have their horny goat weed and powdered rhino horn, dried tiger heart and whatever other nonsensical crap they manage to come up with. They can also engage in aggregious human rights abuses. Yeah right, let's adopt their lifestyle!

Does that mean you like to throw the baby out with the bathwater?

I think that's what the Chinese do if it's not the right gender.

Susan's point is that we should be more focused on preventative medicine and not so much on reactionary medicine.

A large portion of our health care expenses are due to lack of preventative care.

Reward doctors for having healthy patients, not for prescribing medications and running tests.

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Susan's point is that we should be more focused on preventative medicine and not so much on reactionary medicine.

A large portion of our health care expenses are due to lack of preventative care.

Reward doctors for having healthy patients, not for prescribing medications and running tests.

Maybe so, but I like knowing that I can abuse my body and still make it past age 80. Bring on the stents, pills, surgery, cutting, genetic reengineering, chemicals, biotech yadda yadda I'm all for it. I'd much prefer that to a boring old holistic lifestyle nibbling on greens and being one with the earth whatever the hell that means.

Why would I want to live my way? Because I CAN, that's why. Furthermore, I've never had a doctor who didn't encourage healthy practices. It's a myth and urban legend that doctors don't want you to get well so they can make more money. Every orthopedic surgeon I've ever met discourages running as exercise. From my own experience that advice is spot on.

So I like knowing that if I need it, expensive knee replacement surgery will make me almost good as new. So while others are out drinking their herbal tea limping around, I'll be sitting on the couch watching TV with my brand new perfect knee! It doesn't get any better than that. Of course the knee will probably be made in China by some factory worker who has an online TCM store on ebay geared towards impressionable Westerners. CHACHING!

This isn't an issue of cultural lifestyle anyway, it's an issue of personal responsibility. It's like that joke:

And the majority of people who have knee replacement surgery are told to lose 10-50 lbs beforehand. Sports is not the #1 reason people tend to need the surgery.

Papa Scooterbug went to the informational meeting before his knee replacement surgery and said he felt like an anoxeric.

Maybe so, but I like knowing that I can abuse my body and still make it past age 80. Bring on the stents, pills, surgery, cutting, genetic reengineering, chemicals, biotech yadda yadda I'm all for it. I'd much prefer that to a boring old holistic lifestyle nibbling on greens and being one with the earth whatever the hell that means.

Why would I want to live my way? Because I CAN, that's why. Furthermore, I've never had a doctor who didn't encourage healthy practices. It's a myth and urban legend that doctors don't want you to get well so they can make more money.

I guess all the pharmaceutical companies have people scouring the jungles of the world looking to replicate the compounds of plants solely on the basis of medical progress, and not money? Medical advancement is all well and good, but if you become dependent on it, you could find yourself buried with a pretty new knee because you contracted that next super bug during surgery.

I guess all the pharmaceutical companies have people scouring the jungles of the world looking to replicate the compounds of plants solely on the basis of medical progress, and not money? Medical advancement is all well and good, but if you become dependent on it, you could find yourself buried with a pretty new knee because you contracted that next super bug during surgery.

Plants, yeah a lot of really good stuff come from them, i forgot all about that. I guess I will be nibbling on greens in my old age after all come to think of it. [Edit] I'm not going to be buried, so there goes that scenario.

I write this with complete awareness of the stars in my eyes, but I've always liked the way they used to do it in China. Each village had a doctor, and all villagers paid the doctor as long as they stayed well. When they got sick, they stopped paying, till they got well again. Since TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) includes diet and exercise as well as herbs and acupuncture, each villager shared responsibility for staying healthy with the doc.

Because docs got paid for keeping folks well, rather than getting paid for treating them for illness, they learned to detect and remediate imbalances in the system long before any serious disease manifested.

I guess the main idea here is, we have a health care system that is all about sickness, crisis management if you will, rather than about wellness and crisis prevention. Seems pretty wack to me.

How many lawyers do they have over there in Utopia?

I guess all the pharmaceutical companies have people scouring the jungles of the world looking to replicate the compounds of plants solely on the basis of medical progress, and not money? Medical advancement is all well and good, but if you become dependent on it, you could find yourself buried with a pretty new knee because you contracted that next super bug during surgery.

One of very very few areas where the federal ogvernment actually plays a positive role in our lives. Basic research generally yields a 90%+ failure rate, commercial organizations would never fund such projects. If we weren't funding basic research through the NIH, Dept. of Energy, or various non-profits that grant, we'd be in big trouble though. Which begs the question, why do we spend billions on worthless programs and pork, and so little on basic research?

I write this with complete awareness of the stars in my eyes, but I've always liked the way they used to do it in China. Each village had a doctor, and all villagers paid the doctor as long as they stayed well. When they got sick, they stopped paying, till they got well again. Since TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) includes diet and exercise as well as herbs and acupuncture, each villager shared responsibility for staying healthy with the doc.

Because docs got paid for keeping folks well, rather than getting paid for treating them for illness, they learned to detect and remediate imbalances in the system long before any serious disease manifested.

I guess the main idea here is, we have a health care system that is all about sickness, crisis management if you will, rather than about wellness and crisis prevention. Seems pretty wack to me.

If I were forced to endure such an existence I guess I would have to always pretend to be sick, I mean why not? I get medical care if I need it, but don't have to pay a dime. I'm sure I could develop a good fake hacking cough, a partial limp, and perhaps a little hair loss (hey technically it's an illness). When someone spoke to me I would always say "huh? speak louder I can't hear you". I think I have the bases covered. But in case all of this fails, I guess I could just cut off my balls, but from the sound of it that would make me just like everyone else in your little imaginary world.

How many lawyers do they have over there in Utopia?

Yes and as long as you keep getting into trouble, you don't have to pay them a dime. I envision a society of homicidal lepers. This is a really evil and perverse example of collectivism. It totally takes away a person's individuality and penalizes him for his own ability to stay healthy and out of trouble (if you go with the lawyer thing). It rewards sickness and maladaptive behavior. It penalizes virtue.

I'm trying to remember the original topic of this thread. . . .

I'm trying to remember the original topic of this thread. . . .

Not sure but I'm enjoying the tangents.

I'm so

How many lawyers do they have over there in Utopia?

More than they have in heaven.