McCain's Freedom Destroying Bill

SoWal Insider

Mar 1, '10 · 11:35 AM3,594

:angry: Big oil wanting to drill in our waters, government trying to take away supplements for big pharma. What is this Country coming to? :bang:

"McCain?s bill is called The Dietary Supplement Safety Act (DSSA). It would repeal key sections of the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA). DSHEA protects supplements if 1) they are food products that have been in the food supply and not chemically altered or 2) if they were sold as supplements prior to 1994, the year that DSHEA was passed. If a supplement fits one of these two descriptions, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) cannot arbitrarily ban it or reclassify it as a drug.

McCain?s bill would wipe out even the minimal protections contained in DSHEA. It would give the FDA full discretion and power to compile a discreet list of supplements allowed to remain on the market while banning all others. Everyone knows that the FDA is friendly to drug companies (which pay its bills and provide good revolving door jobs) and hostile to supplement companies. Under this bill, this same Agency could quite arbitrarily ban any supplement it wished or turn it over to drug companies to be developed as a drug and sold for multiples of its price as a supplement.

There are a lot of vested interests which are threatened by supplements. Drug companies do not like them because they represent a low cost, safer, and often more effective alternative to drugs. The FDA does not like them because supplements do not come through the FDA approval process and therefore do not support the FDA budget.

Why not simply require that supplements be brought through the FDA?s drug approval process? Wouldn?t that create a level playing field? That is probably the argument that Senator McCain has been sold. But it is a completely false argument. The FDA drug approval process costs as much as a billion dollars. It is not economically feasible to spend such vast sums on substances that are not protected by patent, and natural substances cannot legally be patented. This is the great ?Catch 22? of American medicine. The FDA, which is supposed to guard and promote our health, is hostile to the kind of natural medicine?based on diet, supplements, and exercise?that represents the real future of healthcare. The Agency has either been captured by drug interests or is trapped in a catastrophically expensive, toxic, and ineffective patented-drug model."

FULL ARTICLE HERE
THE BILL HERE

Replies

Beach Fanatic

Mar 2, '10 · 8:17 AM#27

For what it's worth, in response to y'all who are wanting to avoid snake oil and late-night-TV remedies... I'm with you on that. I work with professional health care providers who are knowledgeable about herbs, and I buy from reputable sources (like Ed and Rachel at FTHOI), herbs and combinations that have been used for centuries with good results.

It could be that anyone who treats themselves with TV-purchased medicines (including the pharmaceuticals advertised on late-night TV, offering a free trial prescription) has a fool for a doctor.

SoWal Expert

Mar 2, '10 · 10:06 AM#28

The point is that you might be buying what you think are good products from what you think are reputable sources/companies and in reality, you don't actually know what is in there.

People have been eating beef for thousands of years - does that mean we shouldn't test for mad cow or e coli or have regulations for slaughterhouses?

SoWal InsiderAuthor

Mar 2, '10 · 10:31 AM#29

There's a big movement amongst some physicians to use diagnostic tools, like ART, Automated Response Therapy, to look for problems within the body, like deficiencies, weakened organs, etc. This and many other tools. If you have an infection, the bacteria utilizes your bodies nutrients for functioning. What could happen is you will have to go to the doctor for a prescription for sublingual B12 or that herb you know rids your sinus infection. You'll see the cost skyrocket. Supplements are just like any drugs that you take, you read the warnings and contraindications. You can die from drinking too much water, do we need to put warnings on water bottles too? has society become so lazy and ignorant to be counseled on every thing they ingest? and believe me, when you buy generic drugs, you do not necessarily know what you are getting. The drug only has to contain a certain percentage of the original patented drug. There's a reason some prescriptions say Dispense as Written.

Beach Fanatic

Mar 2, '10 · 10:38 AM#30

The point is that you might be buying what you think are good products from what you think are reputable sources/companies and in reality, you don't actually know what is in there.

People have been eating beef for thousands of years - does that mean we shouldn't test for mad cow or e coli or have regulations for slaughterhouses?

As long as we are eating factory-produced and processed meats at the current obscene industrial scale, testing makes sense, though if you think they're doing a proper job of it (testing and making usre beef, chicken, pork, etc. are clean and safe for us), I encourage you to think again.

Maybe you are right that I don't really know what's in the supplements, but like I said, I 'd rather take my chances on those than the FDA "monitored and approved" manmade pharmaceuticals any day of the week.

It seems the more I look at these and other issues, that scale is at the root of so many of our problems. Too many things have gone industrial and huge-scale, and are so big they make their own weather, and can't be stopped or monitored no how hard we try to get the rules right. Which is why I try to buy small and local as much as possible--less risk, more accountability.

(Back to pharma/herb issue -- not saying I don't use pharmas when called for, I'd just rather use herbs and homeopathic remedies when they meet the need.)

Beach Fanatic

Mar 2, '10 · 11:23 AM#31

There's a big movement amongst some physicians to use diagnostic tools, like ART, Automated Response Therapy, to look for problems within the body, like deficiencies, weakened organs, etc. This and many other tools. If you have an infection, the bacteria utilizes your bodies nutrients for functioning. What could happen is you will have to go to the doctor for a prescription for sublingual B12 or that herb you know rids your sinus infection. You'll see the cost skyrocket. Supplements are just like any drugs that you take, you read the warnings and contraindications. You can die from drinking too much water, do we need to put warnings on water bottles too? has society become so lazy and ignorant to be counseled on every thing they ingest? and believe me, when you buy generic drugs, you do not necessarily know what you are getting. The drug only has to contain a certain percentage of the original patented drug. There's a reason some prescriptions say Dispense as Written.

Great point - I don't think that because some people choose to not do their homework or consult with their doctor on supplements that my freedom to take what I want should be compromised. :bang:

There are many things that FDA has approved but I avoid like the plague because I've done my research and take control of my health - aspartame is one such example. Also processed meats - nitrates have been linked to increased risk of pancreatic cancer yet I don't seen a ban on hotdogs. I don't need the FDA to protect my from myself.

SWGB

Mar 2, '10 · 11:26 AM#32

Is this really directed at supplements or a back door way of over turning legalized marijuana?

SoWal Expert

Mar 2, '10 · 11:30 AM#33

When I take a supplement to improve my health, I want to know there is some oversight.....................so I am not consuming something harmful I am unaware of.

I don't think that these companies shouldn't have any rules or regulations they have to follow. We've all seen how well that works. :roll:

SoWal Insider

Mar 2, '10 · 12:03 PM#34

Great point - I don't think that because some people choose to not do their homework or consult with their doctor on supplements that my freedom to take what I want should be compromised.

There are many things that FDA has approved but I avoid like the plague because I've done my research and take control of my health - aspartame is one such example. Also processed meats - nitrates have been linked to increased risk of pancreatic cancer yet I don't seen a ban on hotdogs. I don't need the FDA to protect my from myself.

You're exactly right Margarita! I research stuff, too....information is literally at our fingertips and I am for less gov't. Unfortunately, I eat bacon and have a hard time finding some without the 'ites' or 'ates.' I don't eat a lot of it, but I can tell a better product vs. not so fab when I develop a pounding headache after. There used to be a great butcher around the corner and everything was fresh.....I need to find another! :wave:

Beach Fanatic

Mar 2, '10 · 12:17 PM#35

You're exactly right Margarita! I research stuff, too....information is literally at our fingertips and I am for less gov't. Unfortunately, I eat bacon and have a hard time finding some without the 'ites' or 'ates.' I don't eat a lot of it, but I can tell a better product vs. not so fab when I develop a pounding headache after. There used to be a great butcher around the corner and everything was fresh.....I need to find another!

Check out the Naturalnews.com website and sign up for their daily emails. :wave:

SoWal Insider

Mar 2, '10 · 12:40 PM#36

FYI - Trader Joe's has bacon without the ites or ates.

Banned

Mar 2, '10 · 1:04 PM#37

I am wary of governmental restrictions as to what can be sold and what people are allowed to consume, but I believe products should be required be law to state their known risks and be required to support claims of effectiveness with factual data. I do think the government should play a role in enforcing these standards. I mean I don't need the government to tell me that homeopathy is a total crock of $4!?, and ban such products, but I do need them to prevent sellers of such products from making false claims on their labels.

Edited Mar 2, '10 · 1:07 PM

Skunky

Mar 2, '10 · 6:23 PM#38

I am wary of governmental restrictions as to what can be sold and what people are allowed to consume, but I believe products should be required be law to state their known risks and be required to support claims of effectiveness with factual data. I do think the government should play a role in enforcing these standards. I mean I don't need the government to tell me that homeopathy is a total crock of $4!?, and ban such products, but I do need them to prevent sellers of such products from making false claims on their labels.

Now you've done it :lol:

I'm saving all my energy to fight coastal drilling and steering clear of this mess. :wave:

SoWal Insider

Mar 2, '10 · 6:41 PM#39

Two questions I wonder about this. Is this a way to get those that don't have health insurance to be forced to go to the doctor for what was once OTC? Will it be illegal to grow that herb, yourself, if it is only sold by prescription?

And, yes, I do think that many will believe whatever the bottle claims without one bit of research. I find it comical that the FDA is concerned with this. It is an issue of control. Supplements are not killing people in general, no more than common asprin which kills something like 50-100 a year I believe. The lack of healthcare or the ability to pay for it is leading many to forgo testing and preventative care, now, that could extend their life or even catch some diseases that are starting. Very few are going to pay for a wellness checkup if they can't afford insurance, much less spring for lab work. And won't this limit big business? How many millions of dollars a year is this going to kill in taxes from these companies? Very fishy.

SoWal Insider

Mar 2, '10 · 6:53 PM#40

FYI - Trader Joe's has bacon without the ites or ates.

We don't have a Trader Joes.

SoWal Insider

Mar 2, '10 · 6:59 PM#41

We don't have a Trader Joes.

Dangitall. I could start an import business. Or, one could be erected on Hwy 98.

SoWal Insider

Mar 2, '10 · 7:04 PM#42

Dangitall. I could start an import business. Or, one could be erected on Hwy 98.

I'll take that over another WalMart!

SoWal Insider

Mar 2, '10 · 7:25 PM#43

I'll take that over another WalMart!

I know. I actually thought the layoffs WalMart is having would curtail the 98 store. :idontno:

Beach Fanatic

Mar 2, '10 · 7:37 PM#44

Is this really directed at supplements or a back door way of over turning legalized marijuana?

Ha! Wouldn't doubt that a bit!! :cool:

(you know that big pharma, alcohol industry and union of prison guards are big time behind making sure pot never becomes legalized - and working to turn over even medical MJ :pissed:

Back to thread:

FDA "experts" will decide what's a drug or medical device under these proposed guidelines, FDA "experts" (the same corrupt officials who reapproved Vioxx after it killed over 50,000 Americans) will decide whether herbs, supplements, vitamins or simple devices like massage stones are to be regulated as drugs and medical devices. If the FDA experts, in their infinite wisdom, :sarc:

decide that these things are to be reclassified, they will essentially be outlawed, stripped from the shelves, and regulated out of existence. Anyone who dares to manufacture, promote or sell such products may be branded a criminal and rounded up by armed FDA agents who have a well established history of suppressing natural medicine.

That's what they're sayin' will happen. :idontno:

I'm w/Susan on this one. And btw, we ALL need to do our homework on what we put in our bodies. I sure don't seem them regulating cheeseburgers cheeseburgers cheeseburgers ....;-)

There are warnings on Tylenol saying that taken w/alcohol can cause liver damage. Guess how many people even read that....

G

Beach Fanatic

Mar 2, '10 · 7:50 PM#45

Those of you who immediately thought of Enzyte and ephedra when the topic of supplements came up should consider yourselves fortunate that neither you nor a family member suffers from a debilitating or chronic condition alleviated through the use of legitimate dietary supplements. Did you, for instance, know that people with gluten sensitivity issues benefit greatly from supplemental B vitamins and certain digestive enzymes? No, I didn't think so. Or that people on statin drugs need supplemental CoQ10 to keep their hearts and other muscles functioning properly? No, I didn't think so. Or that cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy can reduce fatigue and nausea from using a concentrated greens supplement? No, I didn't think so. I could go on and on about LEGITIMATE uses of LEGITMATE dietary supplements for a multitide of conditions arising from heredity, circumstance or crappy luck. It incenses me that individuals with nothing to lose (so far) by the proposition of making any and/or all of these things financially or otherwise out of reach for intelligent people who choose to take control of their health purport to be "experts" on how the system should operate.

And by the way, legitimate supplment manufacturers and distributors could not stay in business if they were killing and disabling their customers as some seem to think. Plus, there is already a voluntary monitoring agency that reputable companies eagerly seek approval from to inform the public of their products' efficacy and potency, and it's worked at least as well as the FDA for the US and over 100 other countries.

The USP Dietary Supplement Verification Program

Program Overview

The USP Dietary Supplement Verification Program is a voluntary testing and auditing program that helps dietary supplement manufactures ensure the production of quality products for consumers. Available worldwide, the program verifies the quality, purity, and potency of dietary supplement finished products through the following processes:

comprehensive laboratory testing of dietary supplement products and their ingredients against dietary supplement standards found in The United States Pharmacopeia and The National Formulary (USP?NF)

a thorough manufacturing and quality control document review

an on-site manufacturing facility audit for compliance with USP standards and FDA current Good Manufacturing Practices (21 CFR Part 111)

random off-the-shelf testing to confirm that USP Verified products continue to meet USP's strict standards

Learn more about the USP Verification Process.

The USP Verified Mark and what it means

Products that meet the program's stringent criteria are awarded the distinctive USP Verified Mark for use on labels, packaging, and promotional materials. The Mark makes it easy for customers, healthcare practitioners, and retailers to identify USP Verified products. Seeing the USP Verified Mark on a label indicates that the dietary supplement product inside

Contains the ingredients listed on the label, in the declared potency and amounts. Tests have shown that contents of some supplements don't match the label and some contain significantly less or more than the claimed amount of key ingredients. There may be health risks when supplements taken for a specific health condition do not contain ingredients in appropriate quantities. USP Dietary Supplement Verification helps assure customers that they are getting the value they expect from a product they are purchasing.

Does not contain harmful levels of specified contaminants. Some supplements have been shown to contain harmful levels of certain heavy metals (e.g., lead and mercury), pesticides, bacteria, molds, toxins, or other contaminants. At specific levels these contaminants can pose serious risks to one's health.

Will break down and release into the body within a specified amount of time If a supplement does not break down properly to allow its ingredients to dissolve in the body, the consumer will not get the full benefit of its contents. USP Dietary Supplement Verification tests products against federally-recognized dissolution standards.

Has been made according to FDA current GMPs using sanitary and well-controlled procedures. Assurance of safe, sanitary, well-controlled, and well-documented manufacturing and monitoring processes indicates that a supplement manufacturer is quality-conscious and concerned for public well-being.

Where you can find the Mark

The USP Verified Mark can be found on dietary supplement products stocked in U.S. pharmacies, wholesale clubs, groceries, and other retail outlets. (See a complete list of current USP Verified products.) The USP Verified Mark also appears next to verified products featured on several professional and consumer heath databases: Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database?www.naturaldatabase.com, ConsumerReportsHealth.org, and PogoHealth.com. (A subscription may be necessary to view site information.)
What makes the program unique

A nonprofit federally recognized standards-setting organization, USP is the only such organization that also offers voluntary verification services. USP's expertise in the field stems from its nearly 200 years of experience establishing standards of quality for medications and, more recently, dietary supplements and food ingredients. USP standards are use in more than 130 countries and are federally recognized per the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act and the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act.
Learn more about USP Dietary Supplement Verification and USP Verified products through our resources section. Or, find out how you can participate in the program.
The United States Pharmacopeial Convention

SoWal Insider

Mar 2, '10 · 8:14 PM#46

Ha! Wouldn't doubt that a bit!! (you know that big pharma, alcohol industry and union of prison guards are big time behind making sure pot never becomes legalized - and working to turn over even medical MJ

I agree with the second two, but not the first. Drug companies already sell legal forms of dope. I'd much prefer buying it from them, after their brand has approval of the FDA, vs. buying from "Big Bill" who promises it's straight from Humbolt county, and organically grown. ;-)

Banned

Mar 2, '10 · 9:13 PM#47

Now you've done it
I'm saving all my energy to fight coastal drilling and steering clear of this mess.

Oh come on, I broke the ice on this one for you! :wave:

Skunky

Mar 2, '10 · 9:23 PM#48

Oh come on, I broke the ice on this one for you!

Naah. Most here know what I am going to say and if they don't they can go dig and find it, if they care. It is as useful as slugging it out on the latest "I hate bicyclists on 30-A" thread. :lol:

Banned

Mar 2, '10 · 9:42 PM#49

I agree with the second two, but not the first. Drug companies already sell legal forms of dope. I'd much prefer buying it from them, after their brand has approval of the FDA, vs. buying from "Big Bill" who promises it's straight from Humbolt county, and organically grown. ;-)

I'm wondering is it better to eat mushrooms from corn fed or grass fed cow turds?

SoWal InsiderAuthor

Mar 2, '10 · 9:57 PM#50

Those of you who immediately thought of Enzyte and ephedra when the topic of supplements came up should consider yourselves fortunate that neither you nor a family member suffers from a debilitating or chronic condition alleviated through the use of legitimate dietary supplements. Did you, for instance, know that people with gluten sensitivity issues benefit greatly from supplemental B vitamins and certain digestive enzymes? No, I didn't think so. Or that people on statin drugs need supplemental CoQ10 to keep their hearts and other muscles functioning properly? No, I didn't think so. Or that cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy can reduce fatigue and nausea from using a concentrated greens supplement? No, I didn't think so. I could go on and on about LEGITIMATE uses of LEGITMATE dietary supplements for a multitide of conditions arising from heredity, circumstance or crappy luck. It incenses me that individuals with nothing to lose (so far) by the proposition of making any and/or all of these things financially or otherwise out of reach for intelligent people who choose to take control of their health purport to be "experts" on how the system should operate.

And by the way, legitimate supplment manufacturers and distributors could not stay in business if they were killing and disabling their customers as some seem to think. Plus, there is already a voluntary monitoring agency that reputable companies eagerly seek approval from to inform the public of their products' efficacy and potency, and it's worked at least as well as the FDA for the US and over 100 other countries.

I wish I could thank you a dozen times for that post.

Many doctors who are in the know about cancer or treat cancer recommend Juice Plus - they look like gummy bears or tablets for adults. It helps meet the AHA and ACS guidelines for eating 9-13 servings of fruits and vegetable a day. I don't know about anyone else, but even my doctor admits that he doesn't even consume that much in one day and he takes these supplements. Benefits: antioxidation, immune support, cardiovascular support, may inhibit cancer cells. (too much more to list)

If you think there is isn't any supportive research on supplements, you haven't googled Pubmed. Punch in an herb or supplement and there are numerous studies by Physicians/ Researchers about just about everything and how they can be used with certain diseases. You won't always find these are in vivo - with humans, but I think that it would be literally impossible to say that XYZ mgs will work for ABC disease biologically for everyone. Some things are trial and error, just as long as you do not abuse it.

Personally, I take many supplements that are recommended by my Physician. I don't have to buy them from him, but the ones he does recommend meet the standards he feels comfortable with. He has felt forced to practice Alternative medicine along with traditional because traditional medicine has failed some patients and also helps ease pain or brings people back to health faster. It also keeps people from seeing him as often and that makes him happy.

But, if the FDA gets involved, it's possible that even Physicians and Homeopathic Practitioners may be restricted in what they can recommend.

This Bill is about the almighty dollar and restricting what for some people is preventive medicine. keep em sick, go to Dr., get a pill, pharmaceutical industry fat and happy.

Skunky

Mar 2, '10 · 10:01 PM#51

I'm wondering is it better to eat mushrooms from corn fed or grass fed cow turds?

The hot rumor when we were teens was that the FDA, DEA, FBI,
4-H or some other shadowy group added fungicide to commercial feed to prevent shroomage. The fear now is probably genetically modified corn transferring patented DNA into the shrooms, thus enabling shroom pickers to be prosecuted by the Monsanto mob for patent infringement or some such. :blink: