$Millions owed in Solar Rebates

Part of what I sent to Marti Coley

In fairness, those of us who invested in solar with the promise of a rebate should receive one. However, any future state rebates should be just enough to make it work out for the max number of new installations. It bothers me to see hasty legislative decisions such as the first rebate program give some people a chance to cash in on a bonanza at $4 per watt or nearly 50% of system cost when we just want to make solar work for the average homeowner. I don't blame the Fl legislature for not voting in another solar rebate at the $4 per watt level. It is too high, and we want a program that can continue and allow sustainable growth. Sadly, Standard Renewable Energy, the company that installed my system, and others have closed their office in Florida and moved off to places like GA, SC and LA where rebates are stimulating solar energy development. A modest rebate that allows investors to reap a 4-5% risk free return similar to those found in good municipal bonds would be appropriate. The PACE program is also an important program that would allow regular homeowners to invest in solar.

It is very satisfying it is to see my meter turn backwards. In fact, I have produced 30% more electricity than I use and sold it back to CHELCO in the last three months. The only problem is I can't convince others to do the same and get the momentum going on this no risk, guaranteed return investment. How about funding a $2 per watt rebate (half the original promised rate) to pay off those who were promised a rebate and put their money up. The same should then be given to all new investors in Florida. It was sad to see the jobs leave the state when our solar contractor closed up shop. Let's get it going again and make a clean energy state that will attract more people to invest in homes and business in NW Florida.

and so on.

And here's a very interesting article from NY Times on the cost of solar vs nuclear = http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/business/global/27iht-renuke.html?_r=2&sq=solar%20electricity%20lower%20cost%20nuclear%20historic&st=cse&adxnnl=1&scp=1&adxnnlx=1280584894-CWhCOrsntTC8BKWgX5AXZQ

Florida owes $52.7 million in unpaid solar energy rebates - St. Petersburg Times

The above shows just how connected our Florida legislators are to big oil....

I'm sorry GW but I fail to see the "big oil" connection here. The rebate program was funded with a capped amount of money. That money was budgeted out back when Crist signed the last big energy bill into law. (Something I applauded.) But the state is broke, and extraneous programs like this currently aren't being funded to balance the budget. We could fund this, but due to our balanced budget amendment it would require a tax increase or a cut in some other area. Where do you propose the money come from? (If you're really angry about this, why aren't we writing letters to Crist compaining? It's was his baby from the start, and he approved all future budgets. ;-))

And here's a very interesting article from NY Times on the cost of solar vs nuclear = http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/business/global/27iht-renuke.html?_r=2&sq=solar%20electricity%20lower%20cost%20nuclear%20historic&st=cse&adxnnl=1&scp=1&adxnnlx=1280584894-CWhCOrsntTC8BKWgX5AXZQ

Ugh. Stuff like this frustrates me. We shouldn't be subsidizing nuclear, and we shouldn't be subsidizing solar. Let the market sort it out. Subsidies distort the market and thwart normal market forces that bring costs down over the long term.

I'd like to know, after eliminating all sibsidies and tax breaks for all involved, which "clean energy" source is cheaper?

I do see where Glenda is coming from. Solar gets the back of the bus and oil and nuclear get passes on up front seats. But if we do subsidize nuclear and oil, which we do, then we SHOULD subsidize solar. Either that, or get rid of ALL subsidies.

I would say solar WOULD be cheaper. Think about everything involved with nuclear. Guards, terrorism, storage, leaks, what to do when the buildings run down - hurricanes, earthquakes, and last but not least human error is expensive as we are seeing with the gulf.

How Much Will New Nuclear Power Plants Cost? - Scitizen

I do see where Glenda is coming from. Solar gets the back of the bus and oil and nuclear get passes on up front seats. But if we do subsidize nuclear and oil, which we do, then we SHOULD subsidize solar. Either that, or get rid of ALL subsidies.

I would say solar WOULD be cheaper. Think about everything involved with nuclear. Guards, terrorism, storage, leaks, what to do when the buildings run down - hurricanes, earthquakes, and last but not least human error is expensive as we are seeing with the gulf.

How Much Will New Nuclear Power Plants Cost? - Scitizen

I agree with you there, no big subsidies for any energy technology. Especially not big oil, my goodness, why on earth would they need subsidies!

I would like to see a net metering law here in Florida to prevent electric companies from ripping off consumers who invest in solar system. Not sure about Chelco, but Gulf Power doesn't give rebates on excess energy produced after 12 months (last time I looked into it). That's sort of a rip off.

Gidget, did your contractor really shut down? I saved the link, they still have an emerald coast location according to the site I saved:

Florida Panhandle Office | Standard Renewable Energy

Yep they did close down. A real shame!

Yep they did close down. A real shame!

Have you found another vendor to maintain your system?

They will still send someone to maintain it if needed. They just shut down the local office which is a real shame.

I will add another great article on making my point about nuclear

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/20/opinion/20herbert.html?_r=1&ref=bobherbert

Hmm, well, subsidies dried up, the economy went into the crapper, and demand dried up. Such is life. In time, I'm sure they'll be back.

Hope so - I hated seeing those guys lose their jobs. They were really great!

Glenda - just re-read this:

Last week Republican Bill McCollum unveiled his plan, which calls for letting the free market sort out "expensive" wind and solar energy sources, partnering with private business to develop electric plug-in vehicles and removing regulatory barriers to expedite biofuel production.

I still can't figure McCollum's demagoguery on energy? I'm guessing he's owned by big oil.

I don't have a problem with him wanting to let the free market decide - as long as he gets rid of every single subsidy and tax break for oil/natural gas and large vehicles.

Methinks that "playing field" would level out pretty damn fast once ALL of those disappear. ;-)

I don't have a problem with him wanting to let the free market decide - as long as he gets rid of every single subsidy and tax break for oil/natural gas and large vehicles.

Methinks that "playing field" would level out pretty damn fast once ALL of those disappear. ;-)

Right but the WAY he put it. It was just not an alternative energy friendly statement was it? Jeez!

Good grief, he needs to have an energy policy of his own just to pay for, set out, and pick up all his dang political signs! :roll:

The candidate web sites are finally starting to fill out. Still feels a little boiler plate but if you dig down you get into some interesting position papers.

I like Sink's government accountability positions. I also like McCollum's business growth ideas. Not much to like about Scott yet, his site is 100% boilerplate.

Bill McCollum for Governor

Alex Sink for Governor of Florida

Rick Scott for Governor

None seem to mention our mounting federal medicaid loans or the growing liability at Citizens. Kinda frustrating.

(..and if hear one more politician mention "green collar jobs" I'm going to hurl!)

Glenda - just re-read this:
I still can't figure McCollum's demagoguery on energy? I'm guessing he's owned by big oil.

Gidget, his record over the years (in whatever position he's held) is nothing that I feel good about...owned by big oil, maybe . Certainly, swayed by their influence.

The candidate web sites are finally starting to fill out. Still feels a little boiler plate but if you dig down you get into some interesting position papers.

I like Sink's government accountability positions. I also like McCollum's business growth ideas. Not much to like about Scott yet, his site is 100% boilerplate.

Bill McCollum for Governor

Alex Sink for Governor of Florida

Rick Scott for Governor

None seem to mention our mounting federal medicaid loans or the growing liability at Citizens. Kinda frustrating.

(..and if hear one more politician mention "green collar jobs" I'm going to hurl!)

I'm for Sink. No doubt.

I'm for Sink. No doubt.

I don't think I would be unhappy with Sink or McCollum really. Sink seems very moderate and McCollum seems like a pretty good conservative. I'd prefer the latter over the former, but I seriously doubt either would take the state in the wrong direction.

More on politics and alternative energy

Commentary: America Sits Out the Race - BusinessWeek

More on politics and alternative energy

Commentary: America Sits Out the Race - BusinessWeek

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appreciate the link

It's disheartening.


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I would like to see a net metering law here in Florida to prevent electric companies from ripping off consumers who invest in solar system. Not sure about Chelco, but Gulf Power doesn't give rebates on excess energy produced after 12 months (last time I looked into it). That's sort of a rip off.

They may have changed their way of doing things. GP has a true net metering arrangement that complies FL state law. Any production sent back into grid is credited against the purchased power for the month and the excess is banked and offset against future purchases. Any excess production is rolled over monthly and annual settlement is made at end of each year at ?as available energy rate?. For example, if 200 kwh were purchased and 300 kwh were sold back in to the grid the account would have a zero bill for the month other than the monthly fee and the 100 kwh would be credited toward usage in future months. There are several factors used in calculating the annual reimbursement rate for any excess, but this is rarely used. There are over 400,000 GP customers with 6 4 residential and small commercial solar PV producers, 3 wind energy producers . Lamar sign co. will be adding several PV and Wind net metering facilities that are small and mounted on signs. Monthly residential customer base fee is $10.

There is only 1 solar producing residence on GP that has any excess at year end to sell. My opinion is that GP has a very fair net metering policy that works for any residential PV system.

They may have changed their way of doing things. GP has a true net metering arrangement that complies FL state law. Any production sent back into grid is credited against the purchased power for the month and the excess is banked and offset against future purchases. Any excess production is rolled over monthly and annual settlement is made at end of each year at ?as available energy rate?. For example, if 200 kwh were purchased and 300 kwh were sold back in to the grid the account would have a zero bill for the month other than the monthly fee and the 100 kwh would be credited toward usage in future months. There are several factors used in calculating the annual reimbursement rate for any excess, but this is rarely used. There are over 400,000 GP customers with 6 4 residential and small commercial solar PV producers, 3 wind energy producers . Lamar sign co. will be adding several PV and Wind net metering facilities that are small and mounted on signs. Monthly residential customer base fee is $10.

There is only 1 solar producing residence on GP that has any excess at year end to sell. My opinion is that GP has a very fair net metering policy that works for any residential PV system.

GP == Gulf Power? Last time I looked into Gulf Power's agreement (two years ago or so?), they didn't reimburse at year end. If we're talking about the same company this is great to hear!

GP == Gulf Power? Last time I looked into Gulf Power's agreement (two years ago or so?), they didn't reimburse at year end. If we're talking about the same company this is great to hear!

Q. If I install some type of renewable generation, what will "net metering" mean to me as far as my generation, usage and billing goes?

A. If you decide to install renewable generation at your home or business and it meets the requirements for a Standard Interconnection Agreement under a Tier 1, 2 or 3 system, Gulf Power Company will install, if applicable, the appropriate metering at your premise. Any excess energy (kWh) received by Gulf Power from your renewable generation will be accumulated and used to offset energy (kWh) delivered to you by Gulf Power for a period of not more than 12 months. At the end of each calendar year, any unused excess energy (kWh) from your renewable generation would be credited to you using an average annual rate based on Gulf Power's avoided cost of energy throughout the year (COG-1 Schedule).

FAQs Renewable Energy and Net Metering - Gulf Power

Awesome! Thanks Gidget.