"The effort to raise the level of sociopolitical discourse has failed miserably"

I've been frustrated with the tone of our country for the last ten years, what took this guy so long?

I've been frustrated with the tone of our country for the last ten years, what took this guy so long?

Go find a writer from your team for those years!;-)

I like Weber's twist on the Shakespeare line.

Go find a writer from your team for those years!;-)

I like Weber's twist on the Shakespeare line.

I agree, nice writing.

I agree, nice writing.

Trust me, the rest of his blogs will make your hair curl. Great writing, very left.

Trust me, the rest of his blogs will make your hair curl. Great writing, very left.

It's fall in SoWal, the tourists are gone, and there's no oil on our beaches. Nothing could sour my mood. 😀

Just another liberal who moans and groans when the political winds turn against them. He would have much more authentic if he had written this when the left was running around painting Bush as Hitler.:shock:

Just another liberal who moans and groans when the political winds turn against them. He would have much more authentic if he had written this when the left was running around painting Bush as Hitler.:shock:

Huh!?? That was rather politically neutral and in my opinion somewhat lighthearted. His characterization of ignorance and neurosis was non-partisan. If it happens to apply more to one party than another, is he to blame?? That's just a case of if the shoe fits, wear it.

Huh!?? That was rather politically neutral and in my opinion somewhat lighthearted. His characterization of ignorance and neurosis was non-partisan. If it happens to apply more to one party than another, is he to blame?? That's just a case of if the shoe fits, wear it.

Right up until the last paragraph. That's where he became the object of his own lesson.

Right up until the last paragraph. That's where he became the object of his own lesson.

Huh? It was obvious from the eighth word of the article that his words applied to mankind as a whole. It wasn't a lesson. It was observation. Of course he's a part of it. So maybe he doesn't think shopping is such a high achievement to aspire to, but then who does???

. So maybe he doesn't think shopping is such a high achievement to aspire to, but then who does???

From dictionary.com

?noun
1.
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2.
the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

I think Bush's shopping remark was about going about normal day-to-day life ,and not being intimidated by the fear of a bomb going off if you leave your house. I'm pretty sure it had nothing to do with shopping being a "high achievement" one aspires to.

The quote about Bush and shopping was the least interesting part of the piece, but I am not surprised that it was a focus for some.

This very interesting commentary by actor Steven Weber caught my eye- overlook the fact that he is probably the liberal Hollywood elite- his article totally nails the discomfort that I and many others have about the tone of our country right now. Just a little food for thought at dinner time...


More and more, people's access to the thoughtful articulation of ideas is becoming limited by the powers controlling such information's dissemination. One has to merely scan the top 20 television shows to understand how low things have become; one need only listen to the rancorous rhetoric among political representatives of increasingly polarized parties an splinter groups, the low-brow demonization of various religious sects and social classes, the untethered metaphors used to condemn the very things upon which the decriers have themselves depended for years. Ignorance has replaced introspection. What a piece of dumb clay is man, how unreasonable and ignoble.



Steven Weber: Things Done, Things Won

Let me civiliy stir the pot. I think, and can back my opinion with fact, that rancorous, violent disagreement has been the norm in our country since the very beginning. This isn't something that was invented by Fox News or MSNBC in the last decade. Citation number one: Burr versus Hamilton debates...

Let me civiliy stir the pot. I think, and can back my opinion with fact, that rancorous, violent disagreement has been the norm in our country since the very beginning. This isn't something that was invented by Fox News or MSNBC in the last decade. Citation number one: Burr versus Hamilton debates...

Don't even think of tapping on my glass tonight.

How's that for civil discourse!:lol:

Don't even think of tapping on my glass tonight.

How's that for civil discourse!:lol:

OK, so I was tapping a bit. But I must say, one of my pet peeves is the myth that up until the 1980s our poilitcal disagreements were handled with the calm and civility on display at a high school debate team tournament. It just isn't true. I used to have a great book on the US Presidents, and at the end of each biography was a section called 'Lincoln (or insert name of any President) criticized' which contained critiques hurled by contemporaries. I assure you, they were violent and ruthless. One that stands out was an assurance from Brigham Young that Zachary Taylor, upon Taylor's death, was burning in Hell, and Young was glad.

Maybe my tin foil hat is too tight, but I think the myth of unprecedented political rancor is a tool of the left to sell the fairness doctrine. Maybe I'm wrong, but that is my view from the cheap seats.

When people are passionate about something the discourse is rough and raw. Look at most romantic relationships. Politics is a subject people have definite opinions about and things are going to get a little heated from time to time. People should quit whining about being talked about like a dog and do something constructive.

If you read only the part which Jenny Dargavell quoted, there is nothing political about it and it does extend to all of us with no fingers pointed at any political party. It holds true. So many people repeat the soundbytes heard throughout the day, without giving serious contemplation or further research to what is being said.

This very interesting commentary by actor Steven Weber caught my eye- overlook the fact that he is probably the liberal Hollywood elite- his article totally nails the discomfort that I and many others have about the tone of our country right now. Just a little food for thought at dinner time...


More and more, people's access to the thoughtful articulation of ideas is becoming limited by the powers controlling such information's dissemination. One has to merely scan the top 20 television shows to understand how low things have become; one need only listen to the rancorous rhetoric among political representatives of increasingly polarized parties an splinter groups, the low-brow demonization of various religious sects and social classes, the untethered metaphors used to condemn the very things upon which the decriers have themselves depended for years. Ignorance has replaced introspection. What a piece of dumb clay is man, how unreasonable and ignoble.



Steven Weber: Things Done, Things Won

Thanks! enjoyed the piece. excellent observations.

and the Bush shopping advice was indicative of much about the thought processes of this country!

Obviously there has always been nastiness, propaganda, and use of the media to control the masses - but the dumbing down wasn't the norm to the extent that I think it is today.

Our forefathers could still intelligently discuss the actual issues and concepts. Far too often I find that people today are outraged, yet don't have a freaking clue about what they are discussing - and refuse to believe anything else or hear any opposing argument.

I feel that the media and politicians are dragging the entire country into a partisan tar pit of idiocy and misinformation to serve their short term self interests and it is destroying our country.

Obviously there has always been nastiness, propaganda, and use of the media to control the masses - but the dumbing down wasn't the norm to the extent that I think it is today.

Our forefathers could still intelligently discuss the actual issues and concepts. Far too often I find that people today are outraged, yet don't have a freaking clue about what they are discussing - and refuse to believe anything else or hear any opposing argument.

I feel that the media and politicians are dragging the entire country into a partisan tar pit of idiocy and misinformation to serve their short term self interests and it is destroying our country.

i agree with Skunk, things really have not changed in political discourse except that the media brings things into more homes and allows more widespread distribution. For example the election of 1828:

"The campaign was marked by an impressive amount of mudslinging. Jackson's marriage came in for attack: when he had married his wife Rachel, the couple had believed that she was divorced; however, the divorce was not yet finalized, so he had to remarry her once the legal papers were complete. In the Adams campaign's hands, this became a scandal. Charles Hammond in his Cincinnati Gazette asked: ?Ought a convicted adulteress and her paramour husband to be placed in the highest offices of this free and Christian land??
The notorious Coffin Handbills attacked Jackson for his court martial and execution of deserters, for his massacres of Indian villages, and for his habit of dueling.
Adams did not escape attack. It was charged that Adams, while serving as Minister to Russia, had surrendered an American servant girl to the appetites of the Czar. Adams was also accused of using public funds to buy gambling devices for the presidential residence; it turned out that these were a chess set and a pool table.
Adams' praise of internal improvements in Europe such as "lighthouses of the skies" (observatories) in his first annual message to Congress and his suggestion that Congress not be "palsied by the will of our constituents" was given attention in and out of the press. John Randolph stated on the floor of the Senate that he'd "never will be palsied by any power save the constitution, and the will of my constituents." Jackson wrote that a lavish government combined with contempt of the constituents could lead to despotism, if not checked by the "voice of the people"." Jackson was also commonly refered to as a "jackass' which is where the Democrat party symbol originates from.