Watching WalMart

Yes, one shouldn't generalize, but seriously - if you are driving a car worth more a certain amount (like 50K) you shouldn't be eligible for some things.

You should sell the car or cancel the lease, and get one a fraction of its value so you can buy your own food.

You can't own anything(legally) of any value and receive public assistance. Property and income are used to decide if you qualify.

You can't own anything(legally) of any value and receive public assistance. Property and income are used to decide if you qualify.

Hmm, are you sure? The AWI site doesn't list any requirements like that:

Unemployment Compensation Fequently Asked Questions

Hmm, are you sure? The AWI site doesn't list any requirements like that:

Unemployment Compensation Fequently Asked Questions

Food stamps and regular public assistance require you list any type of ownership for anything, such as property, or at least it did when I worked social services in Florida many years ago. I looked into trying to get medical assistance a few years ago and I did not qualify because I owned a home and a car. If I had leased them or rented, it would not have counted as income.

As far as unemployment, you actually had to pay in and then be laid off or fired to be able to use that was my understanding.

Part of the problem, we shouldn't be giving company's billions of dollars, that sets the standard.



Seems to me to be more of a problem with pride and a lack of long term planning. If you lose your job, you should have savings to fall back on to make the mortgage payment. If you don't, and you lose your house and need to rent, or you lose the car lease because you can't make the payment, and you find yourself facing a move, need to rent, put food on the table, you go get a job so you have employment. The options should include working at McDonalds or Subway, working as a waiter or busboy, working two low end jobs, whatever.

The minimum wage is currently 7.25 an hour, 40 hours a week at that rate is enough to put food on the table and rent a cheap apartment. I lived off less income than that for most of my twenties. It's not that hard. I could do it again if I had to.

I am a proud person (positive connotation). But certainly not above working at McDonald's or shoveling crap (literally) to put food on the table. And sure, in hindsight it is easy to point out the poor decisions that I made.

That said, I believe it would be foolish for me to work a minimum wage job instead of taking full advantage of my unemployment benefits while I position myself for my next move.

This would be like someone who has always paid a lot of money for great health insurance deciding to stitch themselves up and apply a makeshift band-aid because they believe there is shame in going to the ER since their injury was their own fault.

even the people who did plan ahead have exhausted their safety nets & reserves.

Thanks for saying this.

I am a proud person (positive connotation). But certainly not above working at McDonald's or shoveling crap (literally) to put food on the table. And sure, in hindsight it is easy to point out the poor decisions that I made.

That said, I believe it would be foolish for me to work a minimum wage job instead of taking full advantage of my unemployment benefits while I position myself for my next move.

This would be like someone who has always paid a lot of money for great health insurance deciding to stitch themselves up and apply a makeshift band-aid because they believe there is shame in going to the ER since their injury was their own fault.

I don't disagree. If you've paid into the system, it is an insurance program, you're entitled to make use of it.

These days though a lot of people don't seem to me to be too motivated in positioning the next move. The last unemployment extension pushed continuing benefits out over two and a half years for a large number of people.

CRimages: Extended Unemployment Benefits Sept 1, 2010

How does unemployment pay generally compare to minimum wage? If it's greater than minimum wage, then it's a no-brainer.

Max is currently $275/week...

How does unemployment pay generally compare to minimum wage? If it's greater than minimum wage, then it's a no-brainer.

Max is currently $275/week...

Pretty darn close, 6.88 an hour. Enterprising individuals might work two jobs to get ahead, but the rest, they might as well collect a government check for as long they can.

Pretty darn close, 6.88 an hour. Enterprising individuals might work two jobs to get ahead, but the rest, they might as well collect a government check for as long they can.

Shopper, everytime I think we are on the same page u present another soundbyte like this one.

You keep presenting these polar opposites-

The old school unemployed type who takes a minimum wage job (or two if he's "enterprising") because he's not too proud to feed his family

vs.

The rest who will just collect as long as they can.

These are only two positions on the continuum. I've never seen u think so simplistically.

Ever consider that for some people even working three minimum wage jobs isn't getting ahead but rather it's falling behind? What about situations where there are children involved- good childcare costs more than minimum wage. Ever considered the big picture ramifications if all the unemployed, white collar, highly educated technical types landed all the minimum wage jobs? Could make things worse for all those who are qualified only for those positions. Finally, have you considered that someone truly "enterprising" is wisely collecting unemployment while they put sweat equity into a new startup all the while they're applying for/interviewing for high paying positions in their field?

You seem to have this romantic notion that the best way to deal with unemployment is to work harder, not smarter. You seem to believe it isn't feasible to find new employment that pays equal to or greater than previous employment. And you seem to believe that a bad chapter in one's life results from poor planning.

I've never read a noteworthy success story that didn't include a tough chapter followed by a comeback.

Pretty darn close, 6.88 an hour. Enterprising individuals might work two jobs to get ahead, but the rest, they might as well collect a government check for as long they can.

Based on the numbers, the case for working two jobs is not very strong vs. staying on unemployment.

I don't disagree. If you've paid into the system, it is an insurance program, you're entitled to make use of it.

These days though a lot of people don't seem to me to be too motivated in positioning the next move. The last unemployment extension pushed continuing benefits out over two and a half years for a large number of people.

CRimages: Extended Unemployment Benefits Sept 1, 2010

So, Shopper, do you know these people and know their stories? Or are you just looking at more charts?

During these times there are many reasons for people being in difficult circumstances and all the planning in the world or a decent savings account might not make the difference. If one has a family, if one has any health issues, if one has an accident..if one is a small business owner on the Gulf Coast; if one has no education or if one's skills have been outsourced to India or China and retraining isn't available.

it has been my experience over a good many years that at the heart of most people is the desire to be independent and to take care of themselves..for some this is easier than for others; especially when times are hard. It is well known that everyone does better when we are willing to offer a helping hand to someone who is down rather than accuse them of wanting to stay down.

The generalizations don't help anyone IMO.

Everyday I work with real people who are struggling to get a better education so that they can be independent--their stories are amazing and I have not met a single one who said they wanted to stay where they are. When I realize the obstacles many of them have overcome just to get where they are--I am in awe of their courage. And it is their courage that encourages me to help them as much as I can because they have had to come much further, many of them alone, than I ever did.

When one has been abused, or abandoned, or has not had the opportunity to learn to read; or never been in a place where the most fundamental of social skills were taught; when one has fought depression or endured domestic battering, gone hungry; had no proper clothes; it is more difficult to be enterprising in finding proper employment.

Until one has walked in the shoes of those who are struggling...it is difficult to understand their plight IMO.

it has been my experience over a good many years that at the heart of most people is the desire to be independent and to take care of themselves..for some this is easier than for others; especially when times are hard. It is well known that everyone does better when we are willing to offer a helping hand to someone who is down rather than accuse them of wanting to stay down.

My argument is that that independent spirit has broken down in the country, brought on largely by a sense of entitlement and the many bad examples set by our government in dealing with the current and past crisis.

This country just went through a period where some could pretty much have and do anything they wanted, even though they couldn't afford it. I think that sense of invincibility will last a very long time, and a lot of hard lessons will ultimately be learned when it falls through for them. But I also believe the reason it will linger much longer than it should is due to past and current government policies that have promoted the idea that people shouldn't worry, it's not their fault, and that government can save them.

Ever consider that for some people even working three minimum wage jobs isn't getting ahead but rather it's falling behind? What about situations where there are children involved- good childcare costs more than minimum wage. Ever considered the big picture ramifications if all the unemployed, white collar, highly educated technical types landed all the minimum wage jobs? Could make things worse for all those who are qualified only for those positions. Finally, have you considered that someone truly "enterprising" is wisely collecting unemployment while they put sweat equity into a new startup all the while they're applying for/interviewing for high paying positions in their field?

Welcome to the real world, nobody ever said it was going to be a cake walk. We have "safety nets" (if current unemployment actually still qualifies for that description) to help. But in the end it's up to the individual to overcome adversity. I would hope everyone currently receiving unemployment benefits is doing exactly what you describe in the last sentence, but I fear that represents a minority at best.

You seem to have this romantic notion that the best way to deal with unemployment is to work harder, not smarter. You seem to believe it isn't feasible to find new employment that pays equal to or greater than previous employment. And you seem to believe that a bad chapter in one's life results from poor planning.

I've never read a noteworthy success story that didn't include a tough chapter followed by a comeback.

I think we are discussing two different things here, see my response to Glenda's post.

Soon after I posted this morning, I did my morning meditation. Alan Cohen is a great friend of mine and a wonderful teacher. Here is whqt he had to say in his Daily Dose of Sanity for today:

[

September 28, 2010
A BIG CHUCK OF YOUR GRADE
What are we here for, if not to make life easier for each other?
Source Unknown

A college business student sat down to take his final exam, ten questions that would largely determine his grade. When he came to the last question, he could hardly believe his eyes: ?What is the name of the cleaning lady in this building?? Since he did not know her name, he challenged the teacher as to the validity of the question. The professor answered, ?If you intend to get anywhere in business, your success depends not just on spreadsheets, but on relationships?
Successful business leaders will tell you that you build your business by building relationships?which means you constantly ask, ?What can I give??
My friend Carla Gordon was a highly successful counselor. When I visited her home, she showed me the room where she did her sessions, mostly over the phone. Taped over the face of the telephone was a reminder note to herself: ?How can I help??
We are undergoing a major shake-up in the business and financial structure of our world. One of the reasons economics has gone awry is because individuals and corporations have allowed self-serving greed for money and power to overshadow integrity and care for people. When the bottom line of profits overshadows healthy relationships, corporations falter because they have lost heart.
Making money is an excellent goal to pursue. What many people do not realize that in the long run you make the most money by recognizing the people who make your business. So knowing the cleaning lady?s name is good for the business as well as the soul, and will always prove to be a significant part of your grade.

How might you build your success by acknowledging and supporting people more?

(From A Daily Dose of Sanity by Alan Cohen)

I have to sort of agree w/ 30shopper on this one - there seem to be 2 distinct groups - those who will always be okay in the long run because they know how to work and aren't afraid to do it/aren't above certain jobs, and those who always have an excuse, someone to blame, and want someone to pay for their problems. (Shorter version - those with gumption and a work ethic and those without). And that second entitled and lazy group keeps getting bigger IMO.

There is no reason for a healthy/able to work person to be on unemployment for over a year. That is plenty of time of time to find a new job, start your own business, retrain, etc.

Childcare aside (that argument doesn't work if there are 2 parents and one can provide care), working (I don't know any job that only pays minimum wage - even McDonalds is $2-3 an hour above that) pays more than unemployment.

Unemployment benefits are not winning lotto tickets - that money has to come from somewhere and someone is paying for it - either the taxpayers or the businesses that now can't afford to hire you.

And yes, I have collected unemployment benefits - following both the spirit and letter of the rules - before finding work that paid less for doing something I didn't like as much. Welcome to reality.

A perfect example:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/26/us/26stimulus.html?_r=1&hp

It sounds really great at first, people who are unemployed get "jobs" subsidized by the government. However under normal conditions these jobs wouldn't exist. So all the government accomplishes in doing really is to push the inevitable down the road a year.

I wonder how many folks in this program might have attained real employment by now had the government avoided creating make work for them to do? Did the government really help these people over the long run, or did it hurt them?

Do you have an idea how much you paid in?

I'm presently unemployed. I'm 37. Until recently, I've had a job since I was 12. I've paid into the system since I was 16. So 20 years later I feel no guilt that I am collecting unemployment while I work out my next move. And I have an Iphone.

Just curious--how much do you think you have paid into the unemployment system over the 20 years

No clue. Why?

No clue. Why?

The employer pays it all. There is no direct cost to the employee.

The employer pays it all. There is no direct cost to the employee.

What's your point?

My performance has made every one of my employers a ton of money- a tiny portion of which they are required by law to pay into the unemployment system.

And when I was self employed I too paid into it.

It's a bigger issue:

The Florida unemployment fund ran out of money in August 2009, so any payments made since then are from a federal loan - that has to be paid back and starts accruing interest in January of 2011.

More than 30 states have no money left in their unemployment funds and have borrowed more than $40 billion so they can keep making payments.

And it certainly didn't help that less the 20 states had the necessary reserves on hand pre-recession - preferring to keep taxes and fund payments low.

Yes, one shouldn't generalize, but seriously - if you are driving a car worth more a certain amount (like 50K) you shouldn't be eligible for some things.

You should sell the car or cancel the lease, and get one a fraction of its value so you can buy your own food.

how do you cancel a lease?

I have to sort of agree w/ 30shopper on this one - there seem to be 2 distinct groups - those who will always be okay in the long run because they know how to work and aren't afraid to do it/aren't above certain jobs, and those who always have an excuse, someone to blame, and want someone to pay for their problems. (Shorter version - those with gumption and a work ethic and those without). And that second entitled and lazy group keeps getting bigger IMO.

There is no reason for a healthy/able to work person to be on unemployment for over a year. That is plenty of time of time to find a new job, start your own business, retrain, etc.

Childcare aside (that argument doesn't work if there are 2 parents and one can provide care), working (I don't know any job that only pays minimum wage - even McDonalds is $2-3 an hour above that) pays more than unemployment.

Unemployment benefits are not winning lotto tickets - that money has to come from somewhere and someone is paying for it - either the taxpayers or the businesses that now can't afford to hire you.

And yes, I have collected unemployment benefits - following both the spirit and letter of the rules - before finding work that paid less for doing something I didn't like as much. Welcome to reality.

one year time limit based on what? your feelings?

how do you cancel a lease?

You pay a penalty, default and take the hit, transfer the lease, renegotiate .........

Ideally you have deficiency insurance that allows you to cancel a lease in event of financial hardship or major health problems.

one year time limit based on what? your feelings?

Or the fact that anything over 27 weeks is atypical and considered long term. Which is why 26-39 weeks has been the legal maximum for years.