Arizona congresswoman among 18 shot at Tuscon grocery

Exclusive: Loughner Friend Explains Alleged Gunman's Grudge Against Giffords | Mother Jones

Some interesting information from an interview with a close friend of his. The guy was completely off his rocker.

More from the AP:

The Associated Press: Shooting suspect's nihilism rose with isolation

Just a very sick kid. I'm beginning to see why no one reached out to help, he scared the bajezus out of everyone he interacted with.

More from the AP:

The Associated Press: Shooting suspect's nihilism rose with isolation

Just a very sick kid. I'm beginning to see why no one reached out to help, he scared the bajezus out of everyone he interacted with.

Yes. Even in this day & age, mental illness is not at all well understood.

It's very very sad... so many people killed, wounded, hurt... including this young man and his family. :(

Sounds like someone should have seriously intervened and gotten him help well before this.

Yes, they should have intervened.

One of my colleagues' son was killed in the Virginia Tech massacre. It broke my heart to see his grief. And after having a student threaten me and another colleague years earlier, it really scared me as a faculty member.

The administration was very proactive. Our faculty and staff were told to be on the lookout for students that seem to have mental health issues. We don't have to handle it ourselves because now there is a go-to person in the counseling center that we are to contact. We have been told that this is legal because the student could be a threat to himself/herself, other students, faculty, and staff. Also, as more commonly happens, we are not threatened, but rather we can help the student by indirectly having the counseling center refer the student to a physician. Often bipolar disorder, adult-onset ADHD, and other mental health issues appear for the first time in college-aged students, and these disorders can be controlled by medication to help these students succeed in life.


BTW on another subject, in my opinion the crosshair graphic on the Sarin Palin PAC website was in extremely poor taste. I couldn't support her for President.

Not only did he buy a gun after being rejected from his school and the military, he bought his ammo at Wal-mart that same morning.

One report says he was turned away at the first Wal-mart, so went to a 2nd store and bought his ammo.

Wondering if the 1st Wal-mart clerk will be incident #45 in "why did noone report this nut job?."

In other nut-job news, Westboro Baptist is planning to picket the funerals and has expressed prayers of thanks for the shooter's actions. :angry:

Oh yeah, there you go. Wackadoodle city!

Suspect in Giffords shooting smirks in court appearance

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I think this guy is insane and it would appear his thoughts of violence and hatred developed before any of Palin's idiotic map crosshairs, "take them out any way necessary", "time to re-load" statements or Obama's "If they bring a knife, we'll bring a gun".

I sure wouldn't rule out that he wasn't influenced by inflammatory rhetoric of some sort though. Who knows what as he seems too unbalanced to properly process what he hears/reads.

I found it interesting, yet sad, to read this article on how some in Europe see us after this incident. I think they see us as angrier and more pessimistic than we actually are - probably because that is what makes the news - not that it's not there but often exaggerated and limited to fewer people than it would appear from the news.

In Arizona shooting, Europe sees an America gripped by doubt, pessimism - CSMonitor.com

"British media on the weekend immediately seized the importance of the story, the first attempted assassination of a US politician in 30 years; the BBC and Sky News followed it live for most of Saturday evening and it was Page 1 on Sunday."


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"as symptomatic of a superpower in decline.."

Wishful thinking on their part. Our country has been through a lot in the last decade, but we'll come through it just fine.

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I found it interesting, yet sad, to read this article on how some in Europe see us after this incident. I think they see us as angrier and more pessimistic than we actually are - probably because that is what makes the news - not that it's not there but often exaggerated and limited to fewer people than it would appear from the news.
.[/I]


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The Brits are even more pessimistic than we are right now. I just saw a study on optimism levels in major world economies, and the Brits were miserable, the Americans only slightly less so, and the place to be right now is partying with the Brazilians, where about 93% of the population describes itself as optimistic about their country's future.

Law enforcement officials said Friday they have multiple photos of Jared L. Loughner posing with a Glock 9mm pistol next to his naked buttocks and dressed in a bright red g-string.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/15/us/15giffords.html

The first item I've read about this whole crazy event that made laugh.

Loughner video with 'genocide' and 'torture' ramblings is released - latimes.com

Spooky.

Retracing Loughner's steps prior to his rampage:

Suspect's violent descent came on chaotic night - Yahoo! News

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"We saw a white, Catholic, Republican federal judge murdered on his way to greet a Democratic woman, member of Congress, who was his friend and was Jewish. Her life was saved initially by a 20-year-old Mexican-American college student, and eventually by a Korean-American combat surgeon.
And then it was all eulogized and explained by our African-American president. And, in a tragic event, that's a remarkable statement about the country. - historian Allen Ginsberg
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YouTube - Shields and Brooks on Obama's Tucson Speech, Calls for Political Civility


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"We saw a white, Catholic, Republican federal judge murdered on his way to greet a Democratic woman, member of Congress, who was his friend and was Jewish. Her life was saved initially by a 20-year-old Mexican-American college student, and eventually by a Korean-American combat surgeon.
And then it was all eulogized and explained by our African-American president. And, in a tragic event, that's a remarkable statement about the country. - historian Allen Ginsberg
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YouTube - Shields and Brooks on Obama's Tucson Speech, Calls for Political Civility


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what a thoughtful, mature discussion! Wish we could run it 24/7 in a continuous loop in public places...thanks for posting Rita. This news cast is my favorite.

at dinner tonight my sister asked, "how could anyone listen to President Obama's speech and not understand what a decent man he is...and how could elected members of Congress continue to speak so harshly of him?" Good questions.

I wish everyone would listen more to thoughtful discussions such as Brooks and Shields and read David Brooks' NYTimes columns...he gives me hope that civility and maturity will eventually prevail in our country.

what a thoughtful, mature discussion! Wish we could run it 24/7 in a continuous loop in public places...thanks for posting Rita. This news cast is my favorite.

at dinner tonight my sister asked, "how could anyone listen to President Obama's speech and not understand what a decent man he is...and how could elected members of Congress continue to speak so harshly of him?" Good questions.

I wish everyone would listen more to thoughtful discussions such as Brooks and Shields and read David Brooks' NYTimes columns...he gives me hope that civility and maturity will eventually prevail in our country.

I'm more interested in understanding how a guy like Loughner managed to avoid being picked out and dealt with. The data on his interaction with people over the last few years indicates there was ample evidence he was imbalanced and numerous opportunities to intercede and ultimately avoid what happened. It seems pretty much everyone given the chance chose to turn the other cheek. How do we avoid such things in the future? This could have been avoided, IMHO.

that is another subject and the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I believe most thoughtful people would like to see how this could have been avoided.

In fact, the health care reform law does much to bring parity to mental health issues in insurance and may well help avoid a similar situation -- and if the assault weapons law had not expired, this apparenty mentally unbalanced person would not have been able to have enough bullets to kill and injure all these people in seconds.

I do not subscribe to the belief that if we ban those weapons whose sole purpose is to kill lots of people in seconds, we will be infringing on anyone's 2nd amendment rights. But, then, I don't subscribe to the idea that "government is the bogey man out to do us in" either.

To have guns for hunting and for sport and even for personal protection is a right we all have in this country and, I believe appropriate--but the idea that assault weapons are available to anyone who wants one, is insane.

One must be licensed to cut someone's hair; to give a massage; to prescribe medicine, to sell real estate; and to appraise property...and if one has a security clearance, one must endure a long, involved background check...but, to buy a gun and ammunition that will kill six people and wound 14 more in the space of a few minutes, apparently is just a 'pro-forma' process.!

Something is definitely wrong with that picture.

And, I hope that all members of Congress will get behind the president and work together to be serious about working on solutions to the real serious problems we face -- our children deserve a better example than what they have been seeing lately.

a thoughtful article that points out the need to be honest in our discourse:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/opinion/16rich.html?src=ISMR_AP_LO_MST_FB

As the president said in Tucson, we lack not just civil discourse, but honest discourse. Much of last week?s televised bloviation was dishonest, dedicated to the pious, feel-good sentiment that both sides are equally culpable for the rage of the past two years. To construct this false equivalency, every left-leaning Web site and Democratic politician?s record was dutifully culled for incendiary invective. If that?s the standard, then both sides are equally at fault ? rhetoric can indeed be as violent on the left as on the right.

But that sidesteps the issue. This isn?t about angry blog posts or verbal fisticuffs. Since Obama?s ascension, we?ve seen repeated incidents of political violence. Just a short list would include the 2009 killing of three Pittsburgh police officers by a neo-Nazi Obama-hater; last year?s murder-suicide kamikaze attack on an I.R.S. office in Austin, Tex.; and the California police shootout with an assailant plotting to attack an obscure liberal foundation obsessively vilified by Beck.

Obama said, correctly, on Wednesday that ?a simple lack of civility? didn?t cause the Tucson tragedy. It didn?t cause these other incidents either. What did inform the earlier violence ? including the vandalism at Giffords?s office ? was an antigovernment radicalism as rabid on the right now as it was on the left in the late 1960s. That Loughner was likely insane, with no coherent ideological agenda, does not mean that a climate of antigovernment hysteria has no effect on him or other crazed loners out there. Nor does Loughner?s insanity mitigate the surge in unhinged political zealots acting out over the last two years. That?s why so many ? on both the finger-pointing left and the hyper-defensive right ? automatically assumed he must be another of them.

Have politicians stoked the pre-Loughner violence by advocating that citizens pursue ?Second Amendment remedies? or be ?armed and dangerous?? We don?t know. What?s more disturbing is what Republican and conservative leaders have not said. Their continuing silence during two years of simmering violence has been chilling.

A few unexpected voices have expressed alarm. After an antigovernment gunman struck at Washington?s Holocaust museum in June 2009, Shepard Smith of Fox News noted the rising vitriol in his e-mail traffic and warned on air that more ?amped up? Americans could be ?getting the gun out.? The former Bush administration speechwriter David Frum took on the ?reckless right? that August, citing the incident at the Giffords Safeway event. But when a Department of Homeland Security report warned of far-right extremism and attacks by ?lone wolves? that same summer, Gingrich called it a smear and John Boehner demanded an apology.

Last week a conservative presidential candidate, Tim Pawlenty, timidly said it wouldn?t be his ?style? to use Palin?s target map, but was savaged so viciously by his own camp that he immediately retreated. A senior Republican senator told Politico that he saw the Tucson bloodbath as a ?cautionary tale? for his party, yet refused to be named.

What are they and their peers so afraid of? No doubt that someone might reload ? the same fears that prompted Gabrielle Giffords to speak up, calmly but firmly, last March. Unless and until they can match her courage and speak out too, it?s hard to see what will change.

Recently, I feel as though I live in a parallel universe: I can not accept that relatives, friends and colleagues of mine who subscribe to the Republican Party and identify themselves as conservative...I can not believe that they really believe much of what is labeled Republican and conservative by the far right and talk show pundits...but what I can't understand is why they do not work to change the dialogue...after all, the violence knows no political party--the bullets and the harsh words fall on the left, the right, and all in between.

that is another subject and the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I believe most thoughtful people would like to see how this could have been avoided.

In fact, the health care reform law does much to bring parity to mental health issues in insurance and may well help avoid a similar situation -- and if the assault weapons law had not expired, this apparenty mentally unbalanced person would not have been able to have enough bullets to kill and injure all these people in seconds.

I do not subscribe to the belief that if we ban those weapons whose sole purpose is to kill lots of people in seconds, we will be infringing on anyone's 2nd amendment rights. But, then, I don't subscribe to the idea that "government is the bogey man out to do us in" either.

To have guns for hunting and for sport and even for personal protection is a right we all have in this country and, I believe appropriate--but the idea that assault weapons are available to anyone who wants one, is insane.

One must be licensed to cut someone's hair; to give a massage; to prescribe medicine, to sell real estate; and to appraise property...and if one has a security clearance, one must endure a long, involved background check...but, to buy a gun and ammunition that will kill six people and wound 14 more in the space of a few minutes, apparently is just a 'pro-forma' process.!

Something is definitely wrong with that picture.

And, I hope that all members of Congress will get behind the president and work together to be serious about working on solutions to the real serious problems we face -- our children deserve a better example than what they have been seeing lately.

I'm not sure how the health care law would have played into this. I don't know if he had insurance, might be interesting to dig that info up.

I was wondering more about all the events that led up to his rampage. Had Jared's parents, or the educators at Pima Community College, or the local police been more proactive he may have gotten the help he needed. That type of involvement, not smaller gun clips, is a real solution.

I'm not sure how the health care law would have played into this. I don't know if he had insurance, might be interesting to dig that info up.

I was wondering more about all the events that led up to his rampage. Had Jared's parents, or the educators at Pima Community College, or the local police been more proactive he may have gotten the help he needed. That type of involvement, not smaller gun clips, is a real solution.

Here's a book suggestion for you:
Crazy: A Father's Search Through America's Mental Health Madness by Pete Earley.

Even if he had insurance; even if parents had done an outstanding job of intervention (they are limited because he is an adult); even if all had tried very hard, there still might not have been a good intervention with the system set up the way it is..that certainly doesn't mean everyone should not have tried, but it also doesn't mean that we should not improve the system of both the health care system and the gun law system IMO.

Here's a book suggestion for you:
Crazy: A Father's Search Through America's Mental Health Madness by Pete Earley.

Even if he had insurance; even if parents had done an outstanding job of intervention (they are limited because he is an adult); even if all had tried very hard, there still might not have been a good intervention with the system set up the way it is..that certainly doesn't mean everyone should not have tried, but it also doesn't mean that we should not improve the system of both the health care system and the gun law system IMO.

Yeah, attacking it from all angles, makes sense. I can see myself arguing the other side as well - had the college or police tried to force him into some sort of treatment program prior to any of this happening, it would look more like a violation of his individual rights. But I can't help thinking more could have been done. That video he shot that got him expelled from school was alarming. I can't fathom how anyone could view that and not realize this kid was dangerous.

Yeah, attacking it from all angles, makes sense. I can see myself arguing the other side as well - had the college or police tried to force him into some sort of treatment program prior to any of this happening, it would look more like a violation of his individual rights. But I can't help thinking more could have been done. That video he shot that got him expelled from school was alarming. I can't fathom how anyone could view that and not realize this kid was dangerous.

I am sure that anyone who saw it; or anyone who sat in class with him felt he at least had the potential for being dangerous...but, there is a huge difference in that and actually doing anything about it...our systems are not set up (in most cases) for prevention.

Our entire health care system has historically been designed to deal with disease...whether it is physical or mental and especially in the mental health side, there is very little support for intervention before something horrible happens. Even when that happens our jails and prison systems are usually the "treatment of choice" rather than any sort of rehabilitation.And, more often than not, by the time the horrific happens, it usually is a crime and the law enforcement system rightly comes into play.

The college did what they had the authority to do--they reported it; they expelled him; they apparently took internal safety measures to protect themselves.

Who knows what agony the parents may have gone through with this young man, their child, whom they love no matter what. The only report I've seen is that they are devastated; they have apologized; they are at a loss to explain; and the father apparently tried to stop him by chasing him after an argument.

I am left wondering what support the family got from the community systems that are in place in their area.

I believe our health care system -- especially the mental health care portion -- needs a lot of work. That will take a huge undertaking and will mean a sea change in our pharma, medical, and insurance arenas...it will take time but we must begin.

I also believe there is absolutely no reason to have the assault weapons except to kill people quickly; that is something we could change very quickly with one yes vote by Congress to Congresswoman McCarthy's bill.http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-b...-high-capacity-magazines-rep-carolyn-mccarthy

Both are what a civil, mature society would do IMO.

Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mixed results, and missed opportunities to renew it.

As he alienated himself from his small clutch of friends, grew contemptuous of women in positions of power and became increasingly oblivious to basic social mores, Mr. Loughner seemed to develop a dreamy alternate world, where the sky was sometimes orange, the grass sometimes blue and the Internet?s informational chaos provided refuge.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/us/16loughner.html

Interesting NYT article. This is the first mention I've seen of his dislike of "women in power". Which I guess might explain why a woman congressman would be a target.

I'm more interested in understanding how a guy like Loughner managed to avoid being picked out and dealt with. The data on his interaction with people over the last few years indicates there was ample evidence he was imbalanced and numerous opportunities to intercede and ultimately avoid what happened. It seems pretty much everyone given the chance chose to turn the other cheek. How do we avoid such things in the future? This could have been avoided, IMHO.

I'm not sure how the health care law would have played into this. I don't know if he had insurance, might be interesting to dig that info up.

I was wondering more about all the events that led up to his rampage. Had Jared's parents, or the educators at Pima Community College, or the local police been more proactive he may have gotten the help he needed. That type of involvement, not smaller gun clips, is a real solution.

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I just watched "This Week with Christiane Amanpour" in which they addressed most of your questions:
A sheriff's representative defending their actions as following the laws that are in place in Arizona; the pink-haired college student who had a poetry class with Loughner explaining how his poems and actions, though weird and unsettling, were not violent and sort of hinting that he should be checked out if "weird" was enough of a trigger; a congress woman from FL talking about how the new health care bill would include coverage for mental illness .... I didn't catch the whole show but it was all-encompassing and helped put more perspective on the situation.
Basically, it seems that when you see all the pieces together it becomes an easier "diagnosis" than for the individual parties with just their own piece of the puzzle.

I'm trying to see if the full show is on internet yet. Here are some individual clips:
After the Tragedy: Final Thoughts - ABC News


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It's becoming apparent that Mr. Loughner's world view contained elements of Libertarianism, not that there's anything wrong with that.