Catholic Church Emerges as Key Player in Legislative Battle - WSJ.com Catholic Church Emerges as Key Player in Legislative Battle
By PETER WALLSTEN
Injecting itself aggressively into the health-care debate, the Roman Catholic Church in America has emerged as a major political force with the potential to upend a key piece of President Barack Obama's agenda.
Behind-the-scenes lobbying, coupled with a grassroots mobilization of Catholic churches across the country, led the House Saturday to pass an amendment to its health-care bill barring anyone who receives a new tax credit from enrolling in a plan that covers abortion, a once-unthinkable event in Democrat-dominated Washington.
The restriction would still have to be accepted by the Senate, where it will likely face a tough fight. The issue could sink the larger health legislation if the chambers fail to reach agreement, or if any consensus language leads supporters to defect.......this is unthinkable intervention in government
Replies
98
Banned
But aren't those covered in the exchange plans?
I don't know. I thought I heard the answer is no under many circumstances.
SoWal Insider
In order to get this passed, and avoid widening the pro-life, pro-choice divide we currently have, is this really such a major issue? Plus, aren't abortions relatively cheap? If a couple feel they want to have an abortion, I would think forcing them to pay out of pocket for it would be a very good thing. Plus shouldn't federal law currently in place be upheld? I sense that the pro-choice crowd is up in arms over a very minor issue.
It is not a minor issue when a legal procedure that currently is available in the insurance open markets will be revoked and people not participating in the Federal Exchange are affected. It's government intervention in the free market and it's against the grain of Conservative principles. So, while we are at it, why not revoke Viagra? Do the Bishops believe that Viagra was put on this earth by God to make more babies? or how about putting in the Stupak amendment that insurance can not offer vasectomies?
SoWal InsiderAuthor
Catholic bishops shape health care bill - Health care reform- msnbc.com Catholic bishops shape health care bill
WASHINGTON - Catholic bishops have emerged as a formidable force in the health care overhaul fight, using their clout with millions of Catholics and working behind the scenes in Congress to get strong abortion restrictions into the House bill.
WASHINGTON - Catholic bishops have emerged as a formidable force in the health care overhaul fight, using their clout with millions of Catholics and working behind the scenes in Congress to get strong abortion restrictions into the House bill.
SoWal InsiderAuthor
catholics first, americans second
SoWal Insider
It is not a minor issue when a legal procedure that currently is available in the insurance open markets will be revoked and people not participating in the Federal Exchange are affected. It's government intervention in the free market and it's against the grain of Conservative principles. So, while we are at it, why not revoke Viagra? Do the Bishops believe that Viagra was put on this earth by God to make more babies? or how about putting in the Stupak amendment that insurance can not offer vasectomies?
Sure, and sure, I could care less! If people need either of these they should pay out of pocket for them.
Irony alert: If we weren't considering socializing the medical insurance industry, we wouldn't be having this discussion, so please step off that free market soap box. ;-)
Edited
Beach Fanatic
Sure, and sure, I could care less! If people need either of these they should pay out of pocket for them.
Irony alert: If we weren't considering socializing the medical insurance industry, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
This is exactly what I have been wondering. What would happen in a single payer system completely controlled by the government?
In the words of the Clash... "Would it stay or would it go now.. If it goes there might be trouble, if it stays it might be double..."
SoWal Insider
Sure, and sure, I could care less! If people need either of these they should pay out of pocket for them.
Irony alert: If we weren't considering socializing the medical insurance industry, we wouldn't be having this discussion, so please step off that free market soap box. ;-)
I agree. There are plenty of men that I would personally pay for to go have a vasectomy. ;-)
Beach Fanatic
Irregardless of whether I agree or disagree with the Catholic church lobbying in this situation, how are they any different than any other organzied group that lobbys for something or against something that the group feels affects their membership. 
Either you allow all lobbying, including church based or you allow none. To pick and choose goes against the rights of the consitution. One does not have to support a group to understand they deserve the same rights as those you do support.
Either you allow all lobbying, including church based or you allow none. To pick and choose goes against the rights of the consitution. One does not have to support a group to understand they deserve the same rights as those you do support.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
Banned
Irregardless of whether I agree or disagree with the Catholic church lobbying in this situation, how are they any different than any other organzied group that lobbys for something or against something that the group feels affects their membership.
Either you allow all lobbying, including church based or you allow none. To pick and choose goes against the rights of the consitution. One does not have to support a group to understand they deserve the same rights as those you do support.
Because it is against the law - - -
Home | Change Text Size | Contact IRS | About IRS | Site Map | Espa?ol | Help 
Exemption Requirements
To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.
Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations. Organizations described in section 501(c)(3), other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with Code section 170.
The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, and no part of a section 501(c)(3) organization's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the transaction.
Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct. For a detailed discussion, see Political and Lobbying Activities. For more information about lobbying activities by charities, see the article Lobbying Issues; for more information about political activities of charities, see the FY-2002 CPE topic Election Year Issues.
Page Last Reviewed or Updated: January 05, 2009
Having a tax exempt status is a priviledge, not a right.
Edited
SoWal Insider
I clicked on the link for political and lobbying activities - thanks for the research poppy:
Lobbying
In general, no organization may qualify for section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying). A 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.
Legislation includes action by Congress, any state legislature, any local council, or similar governing body, with respect to acts, bills, resolutions, or similar items (such as legislative confirmation of appointive office), or by the public in referendum, ballot initiative, constitutional amendment, or similar procedure. It does not include actions by executive, judicial, or administrative bodies.
An organization will be regarded as attempting to influence legislation if it contacts, or urges the public to contact, members or employees of a legislative body for the purpose of proposing, supporting, or opposing legislation, or if the organization advocates the adoption or rejection of legislation.
Organizations may, however, involve themselves in issues of public policy without the activity being considered as lobbying. For example, organizations may conduct educational meetings, prepare and distribute educational materials, or otherwise consider public policy issues in an educational manner without jeopardizing their tax-exempt status.
Measuring Lobbying: Substantial Part Test
Whether an organization’s attempts to influence legislation, i.e., lobbying, constitute a substantial part of its overall activities is determined on the basis of all the pertinent facts and circumstances in each case. The IRS considers a variety of factors, including the time devoted (by both compensated and volunteer workers) and the expenditures devoted by the organization to the activity, when determining whether the lobbying activity is substantial.
Under the substantial part test, an organization that conducts excessive lobbying in any taxable year may lose its tax-exempt status, resulting in all of its income being subject to tax. In addition, section 501(c)(3) organizations that lose their tax-exempt status due to excessive lobbying, other than churches and private foundations, are subject to an excise tax equal to five percent of their lobbying expenditures for the year in which they cease to qualify for exemption.
Further, a tax equal to five percent of the lobbying expenditures for the year may be imposed against organization managers, jointly and severally, who agree to the making of such expenditures knowing that the expenditures would likely result in the loss of tax-exempt status.
Private foundations are subject to a different set of taxes on their lobbying expenditures; churches are not subject to excise taxes on excessive lobbying.
Measuring Lobbying Activity: Expenditure Test
Organizations other than churches and private foundations may elect the expenditure test under section 501(h) as an alternative method for measuring lobbying activity. Under the expenditure test, the extent of an organization’s lobbying activity will not jeopardize its tax-exempt status, provided its expenditures, related to such activity, do not normally exceed an amount specified in section 4911. This limit is generally based upon the size of the organization and may not exceed $1,000,000, as indicated in the table below.
If the amount of exempt purpose expenditures is: Lobbying nontaxable amount is: ≤ $500,000 20% of the exempt purpose expenditures >$500,00 but ≤ $1,000,000 $100,000 plus 15% of the excess of exempt purpose expenditures over $500,000 > $1,000,000 but ≤ $1,500,000 $175,000 plus 10% of the excess of exempt purpose expenditures over $1,000,000 >$1,500,000 $225,000 plus 5% of the exempt purpose expenditures over $1,500,000 Organizations electing to use the expenditure test must file Form 5768, Election/Revocation of Election by an Eligible IRC Section 501(c)(3) Organization to Make Expenditures to Influence Legislation, at any time during the tax year for which it is to be effective. The election remains in effect for succeeding years unless it is revoked by the organization. Revocation of the election is effective beginning with the year following the year in which the revocation is filed.
Under the expenditure test, an organization that engages in excessive lobbying activity over a four-year period may lose its tax-exempt status, making all of its income for that period subject to tax. Should the organization exceed its lobbying expenditure dollar limit in a particular year, it must pay an excise tax equal to 25 percent of the excess.
Lobbying
In general, no organization may qualify for section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying). A 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.
Legislation includes action by Congress, any state legislature, any local council, or similar governing body, with respect to acts, bills, resolutions, or similar items (such as legislative confirmation of appointive office), or by the public in referendum, ballot initiative, constitutional amendment, or similar procedure. It does not include actions by executive, judicial, or administrative bodies.
An organization will be regarded as attempting to influence legislation if it contacts, or urges the public to contact, members or employees of a legislative body for the purpose of proposing, supporting, or opposing legislation, or if the organization advocates the adoption or rejection of legislation.
Organizations may, however, involve themselves in issues of public policy without the activity being considered as lobbying. For example, organizations may conduct educational meetings, prepare and distribute educational materials, or otherwise consider public policy issues in an educational manner without jeopardizing their tax-exempt status.
Measuring Lobbying: Substantial Part Test
Whether an organization’s attempts to influence legislation, i.e., lobbying, constitute a substantial part of its overall activities is determined on the basis of all the pertinent facts and circumstances in each case. The IRS considers a variety of factors, including the time devoted (by both compensated and volunteer workers) and the expenditures devoted by the organization to the activity, when determining whether the lobbying activity is substantial.
Under the substantial part test, an organization that conducts excessive lobbying in any taxable year may lose its tax-exempt status, resulting in all of its income being subject to tax. In addition, section 501(c)(3) organizations that lose their tax-exempt status due to excessive lobbying, other than churches and private foundations, are subject to an excise tax equal to five percent of their lobbying expenditures for the year in which they cease to qualify for exemption.
Further, a tax equal to five percent of the lobbying expenditures for the year may be imposed against organization managers, jointly and severally, who agree to the making of such expenditures knowing that the expenditures would likely result in the loss of tax-exempt status.
Private foundations are subject to a different set of taxes on their lobbying expenditures; churches are not subject to excise taxes on excessive lobbying.
Measuring Lobbying Activity: Expenditure Test
Organizations other than churches and private foundations may elect the expenditure test under section 501(h) as an alternative method for measuring lobbying activity. Under the expenditure test, the extent of an organization’s lobbying activity will not jeopardize its tax-exempt status, provided its expenditures, related to such activity, do not normally exceed an amount specified in section 4911. This limit is generally based upon the size of the organization and may not exceed $1,000,000, as indicated in the table below.
If the amount of exempt purpose expenditures is: Lobbying nontaxable amount is: ≤ $500,000 20% of the exempt purpose expenditures >$500,00 but ≤ $1,000,000 $100,000 plus 15% of the excess of exempt purpose expenditures over $500,000 > $1,000,000 but ≤ $1,500,000 $175,000 plus 10% of the excess of exempt purpose expenditures over $1,000,000 >$1,500,000 $225,000 plus 5% of the exempt purpose expenditures over $1,500,000 Organizations electing to use the expenditure test must file Form 5768, Election/Revocation of Election by an Eligible IRC Section 501(c)(3) Organization to Make Expenditures to Influence Legislation, at any time during the tax year for which it is to be effective. The election remains in effect for succeeding years unless it is revoked by the organization. Revocation of the election is effective beginning with the year following the year in which the revocation is filed.
Under the expenditure test, an organization that engages in excessive lobbying activity over a four-year period may lose its tax-exempt status, making all of its income for that period subject to tax. Should the organization exceed its lobbying expenditure dollar limit in a particular year, it must pay an excise tax equal to 25 percent of the excess.
Skunky
Because it is against the law - - -
Exemption Requirements
To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.
Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations. Organizations described in section 501(c)(3), other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with Code section 170.
The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, and no part of a section 501(c)(3) organization's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the transaction.
Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct. For a detailed discussion, see Political and Lobbying Activities. For more information about lobbying activities by charities, see the article Lobbying Issues; for more information about political activities of charities, see the FY-2002 CPE topic Election Year Issues.
Page Last Reviewed or Updated: January 05, 2009
Having a tax exempt status is a priviledge, not a right.
psssssst-the Pope planted pawns within the IRS. JFK let it happen. Supreme Court is now stacked with Papists. Resistance is futile.
SoWal InsiderAuthor
the catholic church will side with anyone to get their way. they supported the confederacy.
Beach Fanatic
Because it is against the law - - -
Exemption Requirements
To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.
Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations. Organizations described in section 501(c)(3), other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with Code section 170.
The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, and no part of a section 501(c)(3) organization's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the transaction.
Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct. For a detailed discussion, see Political and Lobbying Activities. For more information about lobbying activities by charities, see the article Lobbying Issues; for more information about political activities of charities, see the FY-2002 CPE topic Election Year Issues.
Page Last Reviewed or Updated: January 05, 2009
Having a tax exempt status is a priviledge, not a right.
Interesting so all the churches and school organizations that support and actively seek votes for political candidates are wrong too.
Obviously the tax exempt status needs to be reviewed.
Beach Fanatic
the catholic church will side with anyone to get their way. they supported the confederacy.
What does this have to do with the Confederacy.
I enjoy a good debate as much as anyone and I appreciate Poppy sharing info about tax exemptions as I was not aware of the specifics. So many churches and other tax exempt organizations in this city are so very much politicially involved, I had not thought about that.
But comments like this one, just make me, and obviously many others, give up the effort to even try to have rational discussions on this forum.
The title that goes with the photo is:
Catholic Bishops giving the Nazi salute in honor of Hitler.
Note Joseph Goebbels (far right) and Wilhelm Frick (second from right)
http://nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
It just gets so old.
Edited
SoWal Insider
Does the Catholic Church or any church use a 'substantial part of its activities for lobbying?' I doubt it.
Evidently, there is a litmus test in place to prevent this kind of abuse and I doubt anyone would allow any church to leverage themselves in this fashion without repercussions. Final paragraph in the expenditure test: Under the expenditure test, an organization that engages in excessive lobbying activity over a four-year period may lose its tax-exempt status, making all of its income for that period subject to tax. Should the organization exceed its lobbying expenditure dollar limit in a particular year, it must pay an excise tax equal to 25 percent of the excess.
If there a church in suspect, you should definitely report this asap.
Evidently, there is a litmus test in place to prevent this kind of abuse and I doubt anyone would allow any church to leverage themselves in this fashion without repercussions. Final paragraph in the expenditure test: Under the expenditure test, an organization that engages in excessive lobbying activity over a four-year period may lose its tax-exempt status, making all of its income for that period subject to tax. Should the organization exceed its lobbying expenditure dollar limit in a particular year, it must pay an excise tax equal to 25 percent of the excess.
If there a church in suspect, you should definitely report this asap.
Beach Fanatic
the catholic church will side with anyone to get their way. they supported the confederacy.
Organized revision.
Skunky
the catholic church will side with anyone to get their way. they supported the confederacy.
A statement of ignorance, but I suspect you are jesting. I know nothing about you but am certain that scrutiny of your family tree will reveal murderers, racists and criminals. Conversely, no doubt there were many wonderful people who stood for social justice. Stating that Catholics and the confederacy had a relationship as some sort of relevant point in this discussion is boorish. In fact, Catholics were terrorized by the Ku Klux Klan, largely due to the easily influenced being agitated by irresponsible comments such as yours. Think about it.
SoWal Expert
I'm less worried about their tax exempt status and more worried that a church is heavily influencing our government...................sort of goes against one of the founding tenets of our country IMO.
Separation of church and state - founding fathers may have been mostly christian, but they knew better than to allow religion into the government (gotta love the freemasons).
Separation of church and state - founding fathers may have been mostly christian, but they knew better than to allow religion into the government (gotta love the freemasons).
Banned
Does the Catholic Church or any church use a 'substantial part of its activities for lobbying?' I doubt it.
Evidently, there is a litmus test in place to prevent this kind of abuse and I doubt anyone would allow any church to leverage themselves in this fashion without repercussions. Final paragraph in the expenditure test: Under the expenditure test, an organization that engages in excessive lobbying activity over a four-year period may lose its tax-exempt status, making all of its income for that period subject to tax. Should the organization exceed its lobbying expenditure dollar limit in a particular year, it must pay an excise tax equal to 25 percent of the excess.
If there a church in suspect, you should definitely report this asap.
A church is not allowed to use the expenditure test - - -
Organizations other than churches and private foundations may elect the expenditure test under section 501(h) as an alternative method for measuring lobbying activity.
SoWal Insider
Geez! poppy, see page 5. I think this runaround reflects more of the confusion of the Internal Revenue Code.
This article specifically dicsusses churches and their tax-exempt status for lobbying, which I've already posted. However, there was some confusion over the wording: Organizations other than churches and private foundations may elect the expenditure test under section 501(h) as an alternative method for measuring lobbying activity.
This doesn't state that churches come under a different code. Here is the article.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf
And, what this tells me is that if it were indeed illegal for a church to lobby, which it isn't, then many, many people would be lobbying to have the recent House Bill revoked, particularly due to the abortion position. Right? I am not hearing any of this in the news. Anyone else?
This article specifically dicsusses churches and their tax-exempt status for lobbying, which I've already posted. However, there was some confusion over the wording: Organizations other than churches and private foundations may elect the expenditure test under section 501(h) as an alternative method for measuring lobbying activity.
This doesn't state that churches come under a different code. Here is the article.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf
And, what this tells me is that if it were indeed illegal for a church to lobby, which it isn't, then many, many people would be lobbying to have the recent House Bill revoked, particularly due to the abortion position. Right? I am not hearing any of this in the news. Anyone else?
Banned
Geez! poppy, see page 5. I think this runaround reflects more of the confusion of the Internal Revenue Code.
This article specifically dicsusses churches and their tax-exempt status for lobbying, which I've already posted. However, there was some confusion over the wording: Organizations other than churches and private foundations may elect the expenditure test under section 501(h) as an alternative method for measuring lobbying activity.
This doesn't state that churches come under a different code. Here is the article.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf
And, what this tells me is that if it were indeed illegal for a church to lobby, which it isn't, then many, many people would be lobbying to have the recent House Bill revoked, particularly due to the abortion position. Right? I am not hearing any of this in the news. Anyone else?
Calm down, I'm just posting on what I read, I'm neither a tax expert nor an accountant so I will leave this one alone. Read into it what you wish.
SoWal Insider
Nothing to calm down here. As Kurt has stated: some see things differently.
I am not reading anything into the words from IRC than what is actually there. And, I gave the benefit of the doubt in that the Code can be confusing for many, right?
I am not reading anything into the words from IRC than what is actually there. And, I gave the benefit of the doubt in that the Code can be confusing for many, right?
SoWal InsiderAuthor
if knowledge is old, so be it. the catholic church's past loyalties give context to the discussion because of the consequential collateral damage. the vatican has a closet of skeletons a mile wide and a mile long. imposing it's will on washington is a non-starter to you because you happen to agree with the outcome. to me, this dynamic is rather old.
What does this have to do with the Confederacy.
I enjoy a good debate as much as anyone and I appreciate Poppy sharing info about tax exemptions as I was not aware of the specifics. So many churches and other tax exempt organizations in this city are so very much politicially involved, I had not thought about that.
But comments like this one, just make me, and obviously many others, give up the effort to even try to have rational discussions on this forum.
The title that goes with the photo is:
Catholic Bishops giving the Nazi salute in honor of Hitler.
Note Joseph Goebbels (far right) and Wilhelm Frick (second from right)
Nazi photos
It just gets so old.
Beach Fanatic
if knowledge is old, so be it. the catholic church's past loyalties give context to the discussion because of the consequential collateral damage. the vatican has a closet of skeletons a mile wide and a mile long. imposing it's will on washington is a non-starter to you because you happen to agree with the outcome. to me, this dynamic is rather old.
Knowledge being old, was not the reference, it was pot stirring that gets old and generalizations.
As to whether the Catholic church imposing its will on current legislation is a non-starter to me, is another generalization, I made no such statement to support that.
I am not Catholic and there is much they support that I personally do not agree with, but I think they have the right to do so.
Also I don't think the actions of a few represent the entire group.
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