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Catholic Church Denies Kennedy the Right to Take Communion..

AlphaCrab avatar
Beach Fanatic
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Church Interfers Once Again in Secular Politics...

The "holier than thou" once again wields their Catholic Authority over us mere mortals...I am glad I gave up being an Episcopalian to be a Rationalist (now 16% of the U.S. population).! Amen.:angry:




EAST PROVIDENCE, R.I. — The Roman Catholic bishop of Rhode Island says he asked Rep. Patrick Kennedy to stop receiving Holy Communion in 2007 because of the lawmaker's support for abortion rights.
That revelation Sunday proved an ugly climax to a simmering feud between Kennedy and his staunch critic, Bishop Thomas Tobin.
Kennedy told The Providence Journal in a story published Sunday that Tobin "instructed" him not to receive Communion because of his abortion rights stance. Kennedy said Tobin told diocesan priests not to give him Communion.
Tobin says he asked Kennedy to stop receiving communion, but he never instructed his priests not to give the sacrament to Kennedy.
The two men have clashed over abortion restrictions in a proposed overhaul of the nation's health care system.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
EAST PROVIDENCE, R.I. (AP) – The Roman Catholic bishop of Rhode Island said Sunday that he asked Rep. Patrick Kennedy in a 2007 letter to stop receiving Communion, the central sacrament of the church, because of the congressman's public stance on moral issues.
Bishop Thomas Tobin divulged details of his confidential exchange with Kennedy after the Democratic lawmaker told The Providence Journal in a story published Sunday that Tobin had instructed him not to receive Communion. The two men have clashed repeatedly in the past few weeks over abortion.
Story continues below


Kennedy did not say where or how he received those instructions. He declined to say whether he has obeyed the bishop's request.
"The bishop instructed me not to take Communion and said that he has instructed the diocesan priests not to give me Communion," Kennedy told the paper in an interview conducted Friday.
Kennedy said the bishop had explained the penalty by telling him "that I am not a good practicing Catholic because of the positions that I've taken as a public official," particularly on abortion.
Tobin said in a statement Sunday that he "has never addressed matters relative to public officials receiving Holy Communion with pastors of the diocese."
The outspoken prelate and Kennedy, a son of the nation's most famous Roman Catholic family, have feuded since Kennedy in an interview last month criticized Roman Catholic church leaders for threatening to oppose an overhaul of the nation's health care system unless it included tighter restrictions on abortion.
Kennedy voted against an amendment tightening abortion restrictions that was sought by the bishops. But he voted in favor of a health care plan that included the amendment he opposed.
Tobin urged Kennedy not to receive communion in a February 2007 letter, a portion of which was released publicly by Tobin's office Sunday.
"In light of the Church's clear teaching, and your consistent actions, therefore, I believe it is inappropriate for you to be receiving Holy Communion and I now ask respectfully that you refrain from doing so," Tobin wrote.
It was not immediately clear whether Tobin and Kennedy spoke further about the request. Kennedy spokeswoman Kerrie Bennett did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment on the letter.
Tobin, the spiritual leader of Roman Catholics in Rhode Island, the nation's most heavily Catholic state, demanded an apology from Kennedy after the congressman criticized church leaders who opposed universal health care unless the plans included more restrictions on abortions. He also requested a meeting with Kennedy.
"While I greatly respect the Catholic Church and its leaders, like many Rhode Islanders, the fact that I disagree with the hierarchy of the church on some issues does not make me any less of a Catholic," Kennedy wrote in a letter to Tobin, agreeing to a sitdown. "I embrace my faith which acknowledges the existence of an imperfect humanity."
Their meeting fell apart. While Tobin called it a mutual decision, Kennedy accused Tobin of failing to abide by an agreement to stop discussing the congressman's faith publicly.
Tobin followed up with a biting public letter published in a diocesan newspaper.
"Sorry, you can't chalk it up to an 'imperfect humanity.' Your position is unacceptable to the Church and scandalous to many of our members. It absolutely diminishes your Communion with the Church," Tobin wrote.
Susan Gibbs, a spokeswoman for Washington Archbishop Donald W. Wuerl said officials with the archdiocese didn't know whether Kennedy attends Mass in the nation's capital. Anyone who does not believe in core Catholic teachings would be asked not to come forward for Communion, she said. Church leaders continue teaching and counseling those individuals, Gibbs said.
As for Kennedy, Gibbs said "we have not barred anyone from receiving Communion.
"We don't know of his worship habits," she said. "Most legislators return home on the weekends."
___
Associated Press Writer Brett Zongker contributed to this report from Washington.

Edited

Replies

70
Bob avatar
SoWal Insider
#2
i'm as catholic as a kennedy
AlphaCrab avatar
Beach FanaticAuthor
#3
i'm as catholic as a kennedy

You will get a letter also bob.
Lynnie avatar
SoWal Insider
#4
Is this the same Kennedy that had his marriage annulled even after three children? I get confused on all those Kennedy's.
Winnie avatar
Beach Fanatic
#5
Is this the same Kennedy that had his marriage annulled even after three children? I get confused on all those Kennedy's.

Me too! :floor:
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#6
Doesn't Patrick have a drinking problem? It's probably best for him.:lol:
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#7
So the catholic church that doesn't allow me to take the sacrament because I am not catholic enough won't allow a quasi-famous catholic to take the sacrament because he is not catholic enough (since he supports abortion)?

I am okay with that.
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#8
So the catholic church that doesn't allow me to take the sacrament because I am not catholic enough won't allow a quasi-famous catholic to take the sacrament because he is not catholic enough (since he supports abortion)?

I am okay with that.

I read more into this, It's a power struggle between two politicians. One of them is elected, the other appointed. I'm sure the bishop is well aware that plenty of practicing Catholics support abortion rights, they just aren't a threat to his power base.
AlphaCrab avatar
Beach FanaticAuthor
#9
Is this the same Kennedy that had his marriage annulled even after three children? I get confused on all those Kennedy's.

I'd appreciate it if you would stay on topic for my thread. There is the Lounge for banter.
AlphaCrab avatar
Beach FanaticAuthor
#10
Me too! :floor:

You as well!:angry:
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#11
It was topical - annulling a marriage after 3 kids pretty effectively demonstrates just how "strict" you are about obeying all the tenets of your religion.

You were married in the church, your wife is still alive/present/mentally capable, you got laid multiple times (so it was consummated), and multiple children were the result, so infertility isn't an issue.
Bob avatar
SoWal Insider
#12
You will get a letter also bob.
when i receive my letter, shall i play blasphemian rhapsody, or in-a-gadda-da-vida[garden of eden]?
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#13
The only time I would mind being denied a sacrament is if I were a Rastafarian.
30ashopper avatar
SoWal Insider
#14
The only time I would mind being denied a sacrament is if I were a Rastafarian.

ROTF hillarious!
Bob avatar
SoWal Insider
#15
yea mon
Lynnie avatar
SoWal Insider
#16
I'd appreciate it if you would stay on topic for my thread. There is the Lounge for banter.

Tough! It's a free country and my comment/question was legitimate.
Have a great day with your angry emoticons.
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#17
yea mon

"I think it is best you not be partaking in the dagga mon"
AlphaCrab avatar
Beach FanaticAuthor
#18
Tough! It's a free country and my comment/question was legitimate.
Have a great day with your angry emoticons.

No. It is just a common courtesy. If you had taken the time to read the article you would have know what Kennedy was being discussed. As the thread starter, I can make a reasonable request and a judgement call that comments be on point to the topic.

If you still weren't aware of which Kennedy was being discussed then you should have moved on. Many thanks.
Lynnie avatar
SoWal Insider
#19
No. It is just a common courtesy. If you had taken the time to read the article you would have know what Kennedy was being discussed. As the thread starter, I can make a reasonable request and a judgement call that comments be on point to the topic.

If you still weren't aware of which Kennedy was being discussed then you should have moved on. Many thanks.

You are very welcome for my freedom of speech. The Kennedy's aren't exempt from Catholic Church doctrines.......except annulment after having three children. Perhaps you missed the point, Alphacrab. Move on and many thanks!
Miss Kitty avatar
Meow
#20
No. It is just a common courtesy. If you had taken the time to read the article you would have know what Kennedy was being discussed. As the thread starter, I can make a reasonable request and a judgement call that comments be on point to the topic.

If you still weren't aware of which Kennedy was being discussed then you should have moved on. Many thanks.

Making the rules now, huh? I think you owe Lynnie an apology for your rudeness. Then, you can come on out and tell us who you really are. :wave:
Douglas the Intrepid avatar
Beach Fanatic
#21
No. It is just a common courtesy. As the thread starter, I can make a reasonable request and a judgement call that comments be on point to the topic.

If you still weren't aware of which Kennedy was being discussed then you should have moved on. Many thanks.

Wow, so you are the all powerful thread moderator because you started the thread?! LOL! Good luck with that. :rolling:
Lynnie's question was much more on topic then Bob's comment. Why did you selectively decide to jump all over her? I guess the life of a thread Nazi is a complex tapestry of decisions. :D

As for my being on topic, I firmly believe that this kind of policy making of the Catholic Church is one of the factors contributing to its continual decline.
DD avatar
SoWal Expert
#22
Making the rules now, huh? I think you owe Lynnie an apology for your rudeness. Then, you can come on out and tell us who you really are. :wave:

Well, if this doesn't deserve a clapping smiley, I don't know what does!:clap: In more ways than one.

Wow, so you are the all powerful thread moderator because you started the thread?! LOL! Good luck with that. :rolling:
Lynnie's question was much more on topic then Bob's comment. Why did you selectively decide to jump all over her? I guess the life of a thread Nazi is a complex tapestry of decisions. :D

As for my being on topic, I firmly believe that this kind of policy making of the Catholic Church is one of the factors contributing to its continual decline.

:clap:
Lynnie avatar
SoWal Insider
#23
Making the rules now, huh? I think you owe Lynnie an apology for your rudeness. Then, you can come on out and tell us who you really are. :wave:
:wub:

Wow, so you are the all powerful thread moderator because you started the thread?! LOL! Good luck with that. :rolling:
Lynnie's question was much more on topic then Bob's comment. Why did you selectively decide to jump all over her? I guess the life of a thread Nazi is a complex tapestry of decisions. :D

As for my being on topic, I firmly believe that this kind of policy making of the Catholic Church is one of the factors contributing to its continual decline.
:wub:

Well, if this doesn't deserve a clapping smiley, I don't know what does!:clap: In more ways than one.



:clap:
:wub:

MWAH~~~~~~~ :clap:
Teresa avatar
SoWal Guide
#24
give it up alpha - I completely understand your point but maybe you could give a bit more leeway for responders? are you someone I know? not that it matters cause whoever you are - keep up your thoughtful posts.

MK - where ya been?

Catholic Church - playing political games - making political statements at the expense of high profile members. not pretty but whatchagonnado?

why is everyone talking about annulment and children? you can have children and still have other reasons for annulment of a marriage. an annulment is a divorce that requires a ton of contemplation, family involvement and paperwork (we've been through it in my family and children were involved). basically, its a lot more inconvenient than just a plain divorce. maybe it should be.
Lynnie avatar
SoWal Insider
#25
give it up alpha - I completely understand your point but maybe you could give a bit more leeway for responders? are you someone I know? not that it matters cause whoever you are - keep up your thoughtful posts.

MK - where ya been?

Catholic Church - playing political games - making political statements at the expense of high profile members. not pretty but whatchagonnado?

why is everyone talking about annulment and children? you can have children and still have other reasons for annulment of a marriage. an annulment is a divorce that requires a ton of contemplation, family involvement and paperwork (we've been through it in my family and children were involved). basically, its a lot more inconvenient than just a plain divorce. maybe it should be.

Yes, however, annullment in the Catholic Church removes the marriage certificate and bastardizes the children. It basically states that the marriage NEVER took place. It is a lot of paperwork and must have the blessing of the Pope.

It was brought up because the Church seems to be making some strange moves and certainly has with regard to the Kennedy family. I certainly didn't appreciate the original poster telling me to stay on point. I believe a more candid conversation with respect such as asking a question if he/she didn't understand would have carried a lot more credibility. But, I respect his/her freedom of speech and will continue with my rights.
Teresa avatar
SoWal Guide
#26
Yes, however, annullment in the Catholic Church removes the marriage certificate and bastardizes the children. It basically states that the marriage NEVER took place. It is a lot of paperwork and must have the blessing of the Pope.

It was brought up because the Church seems to be making some strange moves and certainly has with regard to the Kennedy family. I certainly didn't appreciate the original poster telling me to stay on point. I believe a more candid conversation with respect such as asking a question if he/she didn't understand would have carried a lot more credibility. But, I respect his/her freedom of speech and will continue with my rights.

part of your statement is true about annulment but the other part is way way off base. here is Catholic Annulment 101, as follows. no, it seems illogical but it is what the church offers for divorced members. in no way are children bastardized. children have blessed the parents and family no matter what happens on paper between the parents. the church has the ultimate respect for life and children and would never stand for placing that kind of criteria on a child. when a marriage is annulled, the children are the blessings that we keep and cherish. its like the Virgin Mary who remains a virgin, and all sorts of other seemingly bizarre events that serve as the basis for Christianity - it may not make sense but the church says it is so, so it is. (at least in the minds of some followers. some of us followers make up our own rules).

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] "Does annulment make our
children illegitimate?"
[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]No — children of a marriage that's determined to be invalid by a Catholic annulment, are still legitimate. (Code of Canon Law, canon 1137) [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When a couple marries, they assume the marriage is valid and was entered into in good faith. Children conceived under this assumption of a valid marriage, are considered to be legitimate. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This fact does not change even if the marriage is later found to be not valid. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In the United States, Catholic annulment does not affect any state civil laws. It is unrelated to civil concerns such as illegitimacy, child custody, alimony, visitation rights, or division of property. [/FONT]
Alpha stated his criteria for his thread and that should be respected by anyone wanting to participate. I don't really blame him/her. why argue or be offended? not worth it, imo. of course, you may continue to participate in any way you choose. no one said otherwise.

btw, I totally buy the Virgin Mary thing. I think she is Mother Earth (from the pagan days) - she was just revised and updated for Christians.

Edited

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