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Catholic Church Denies Kennedy the Right to Take Communion..

AlphaCrab avatar
Beach Fanatic
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Church Interfers Once Again in Secular Politics...

The "holier than thou" once again wields their Catholic Authority over us mere mortals...I am glad I gave up being an Episcopalian to be a Rationalist (now 16% of the U.S. population).! Amen.:angry:




EAST PROVIDENCE, R.I. — The Roman Catholic bishop of Rhode Island says he asked Rep. Patrick Kennedy to stop receiving Holy Communion in 2007 because of the lawmaker's support for abortion rights.
That revelation Sunday proved an ugly climax to a simmering feud between Kennedy and his staunch critic, Bishop Thomas Tobin.
Kennedy told The Providence Journal in a story published Sunday that Tobin "instructed" him not to receive Communion because of his abortion rights stance. Kennedy said Tobin told diocesan priests not to give him Communion.
Tobin says he asked Kennedy to stop receiving communion, but he never instructed his priests not to give the sacrament to Kennedy.
The two men have clashed over abortion restrictions in a proposed overhaul of the nation's health care system.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
EAST PROVIDENCE, R.I. (AP) – The Roman Catholic bishop of Rhode Island said Sunday that he asked Rep. Patrick Kennedy in a 2007 letter to stop receiving Communion, the central sacrament of the church, because of the congressman's public stance on moral issues.
Bishop Thomas Tobin divulged details of his confidential exchange with Kennedy after the Democratic lawmaker told The Providence Journal in a story published Sunday that Tobin had instructed him not to receive Communion. The two men have clashed repeatedly in the past few weeks over abortion.
Story continues below


Kennedy did not say where or how he received those instructions. He declined to say whether he has obeyed the bishop's request.
"The bishop instructed me not to take Communion and said that he has instructed the diocesan priests not to give me Communion," Kennedy told the paper in an interview conducted Friday.
Kennedy said the bishop had explained the penalty by telling him "that I am not a good practicing Catholic because of the positions that I've taken as a public official," particularly on abortion.
Tobin said in a statement Sunday that he "has never addressed matters relative to public officials receiving Holy Communion with pastors of the diocese."
The outspoken prelate and Kennedy, a son of the nation's most famous Roman Catholic family, have feuded since Kennedy in an interview last month criticized Roman Catholic church leaders for threatening to oppose an overhaul of the nation's health care system unless it included tighter restrictions on abortion.
Kennedy voted against an amendment tightening abortion restrictions that was sought by the bishops. But he voted in favor of a health care plan that included the amendment he opposed.
Tobin urged Kennedy not to receive communion in a February 2007 letter, a portion of which was released publicly by Tobin's office Sunday.
"In light of the Church's clear teaching, and your consistent actions, therefore, I believe it is inappropriate for you to be receiving Holy Communion and I now ask respectfully that you refrain from doing so," Tobin wrote.
It was not immediately clear whether Tobin and Kennedy spoke further about the request. Kennedy spokeswoman Kerrie Bennett did not immediately respond to a message seeking comment on the letter.
Tobin, the spiritual leader of Roman Catholics in Rhode Island, the nation's most heavily Catholic state, demanded an apology from Kennedy after the congressman criticized church leaders who opposed universal health care unless the plans included more restrictions on abortions. He also requested a meeting with Kennedy.
"While I greatly respect the Catholic Church and its leaders, like many Rhode Islanders, the fact that I disagree with the hierarchy of the church on some issues does not make me any less of a Catholic," Kennedy wrote in a letter to Tobin, agreeing to a sitdown. "I embrace my faith which acknowledges the existence of an imperfect humanity."
Their meeting fell apart. While Tobin called it a mutual decision, Kennedy accused Tobin of failing to abide by an agreement to stop discussing the congressman's faith publicly.
Tobin followed up with a biting public letter published in a diocesan newspaper.
"Sorry, you can't chalk it up to an 'imperfect humanity.' Your position is unacceptable to the Church and scandalous to many of our members. It absolutely diminishes your Communion with the Church," Tobin wrote.
Susan Gibbs, a spokeswoman for Washington Archbishop Donald W. Wuerl said officials with the archdiocese didn't know whether Kennedy attends Mass in the nation's capital. Anyone who does not believe in core Catholic teachings would be asked not to come forward for Communion, she said. Church leaders continue teaching and counseling those individuals, Gibbs said.
As for Kennedy, Gibbs said "we have not barred anyone from receiving Communion.
"We don't know of his worship habits," she said. "Most legislators return home on the weekends."
___
Associated Press Writer Brett Zongker contributed to this report from Washington.

Edited

Replies

70
Banned
#52
Your friend is taking things too literally. Catholics don't believe bread and wine physically transform. They are breaking bread and toasting their hero's memory.

I could be right about this.
Bob avatar
SoWal Insider
#53
actually, Catholics believe that Communion is literally the body of Christ, transformed from bread by the priest presiding over the service. as you know, this is what we are taught since first holy communion. The Eucharist is a holy sacrament administered by the church to members who have carefully prepared themselves through sacraments of baptism and confession, and also education. For Catholics, communion isn't just a symbol. It is a holy sacrament taken very seriously, and this is the reason communion isn't offered to visitors/guests. I totally understand and respect this about the Church. Communion is not inclusive or exclusive. It is the foundation of the Church and its members share common beliefs about the sacrament/miracle of the Eucharist, and its importance in their lives. It is a defining element of Catholicism.

I also understand that visitors/guests may not understand the reasons they are not invited to receive communion - and they may feel excluded, even though the mass includes a general statement about all being welcome, but only Catholics who are prepared are invited to receive the Eucharist

it is made even more confusing because many Priests I have known are relaxed about administering communion, and have no problem with administering communion to a visitor/guest.

many Catholics I know would never receive communion themselves unless they have recently received the sacrament of confession. we are taught that we need to receive the eucharist only after we have wiped our sins away with confession. This part is going to far for me, since I never ever go to confession (it used to scare the hail out of me when I was little). But, a certain family priest says this is okay for various reasons.

So, we all kind of pick and choose what works for us. which is what you are doing in your analogies Geo. and you are right. whatever you believe in your heart is right, imo.
a la carte religion ... if only cable tv billing were the same
Geo avatar
Beach Fanatic
#54
actually, Catholics believe that Communion is literally the body of Christ, transformed from bread by the priest presiding over the service. as you know, this is what we are taught since first holy communion.

Okay. True. This is what we were taught. The message never waivered throughout my 12 years of catholic schooling. But I believe that when pressed, most catholics would acknowledge the element of symbolism. Save for my grandmother, they wouldn't insist that their priest just performed a magic trick during the consecration and literally turned wafers and wine into 2010 year old human tissue and bodily fluids.

For Catholics, communion isn't just a symbol. It is a holy sacrament taken very seriously, and this is the reason communion isn't offered to visitors/guests.

Agreed. It is more than a trivial symbol. It means something very special to them.



So, we all kind of pick and choose what works for us. which is what you are doing in your analogies Geo. and you are right. whatever you believe in your heart is right, imo.

Nicely said...
Geo avatar
Beach Fanatic
#55
Some people aren't into ritual, period, so imagine how they feel when it's thrust upon them.

LS, what is and isn't ritual? We hold the door open for others, say thanks/you're welcome/I'm sorry, offer "blassings" when others sneeze, we walk the dog every morning on the beach and have a glass of wine at sunset...

The LS I (believe that I) know probably wasn't traumatized (even at 12) by the communion experience. He was probably confused by what he felt was grown ups acting absurd and he might have even been mildly amused.

Fess up. You're not scarred by this, are ya???
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#56
Your friend is taking things too literally. Catholics don't believe bread and wine physically transform. They are breaking bread and toasting their hero's memory.

From what I understand at least in Florida, even extreme alcoholics in disciplinary treatment programs are permitted to partake of the sacrament since since wine is transformed into somethings else.
Geo avatar
Beach Fanatic
#57
From what I understand at least in Florida, even extreme alcoholics in disciplinary treatment programs are permitted to partake of the sacrament since since wine is transformed into somethings else.

Wow
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#58
From what I understand at least in Florida, even extreme alcoholics in disciplinary treatment programs are permitted to partake of the sacrament since since wine is transformed into somethings else.

Really? A lot of places have a tray of "grape juice alternates" for people who have issues with alcohol.
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#59
Really? A lot of places have a tray of "grape juice alternates" for people who have issues with alcohol.

True, but I heard from a very reliable source that if such a person under treatment truly wants to partake in the wine, it's one time the state will back off. They simply don't want to touch that one with a ten foot pole.
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#60
LS, what is and isn't ritual? We hold the door open for others, say thanks/you're welcome/I'm sorry, offer "blassings" when others sneeze, we walk the dog every morning on the beach and have a glass of wine at sunset...

Some of those I consider to be more ettiquette than ritual. Others are enjoyable daily routines. I'm think ing more along the lines of something like funerals. In my family, we don't do 'em.

The LS I (believe that I) know probably wasn't traumatized (even at 12) by the communion experience. He was probably confused by what he felt was grown ups acting absurd and he might have even been mildly amused.
Fess up. You're not scarred by this, are ya???

You're correct in your assessment, however I must say that at an earlier age I did feel traumatized when learning about Christ's method of execution. At that point I started to disbelieve. Had I been offered communion during those earlier years, I'm sure beyond doubt the confusion would have given me nightmares.
sunspotbaby avatar
SoWal Insider
#61
Making the rules now, huh? I think you owe Lynnie an apology for your rudeness. Then, you can come on out and tell us who you really are. :wave:

Well, if this doesn't deserve a clapping smiley, I don't know what does!:clap: In more ways than one.



:clap:

If posts have a lot of :angry: and some of this , then it's probably a DQ. :lol: :roll:
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#62
It really all comes down to what you personally do and do not believe...........and a little perspective on how others who do not share your beliefs feel about being forced to participate or being governed by them.

Would be great if everyone had the opportunity to be a religious and cultural minority so they can see the flip side of the coin.

Frankly I have always found the choice of a crucified and bleeding man as a religion's focal point to be a little creepy................not to mention the depictions of saints - full of arrows, being roasted alive, with their boobs cut off, on the rack etc.

The early Christians had some major issues because of the rumors that they were cannibals (eating flesh and drinking blood).

Extreme alcoholics who insist on wine over juice or abstaining - well, that's their (dumbass IMO) choice.
Banned
#63
I could be right about this.

Man, I didn't read my own post. Geo I meant to say "You could be right about this", sorry.
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#64
It really all comes down to what you personally do and do not believe...........and a little perspective on how others who do not share your beliefs feel about being forced to participate or being governed by them.

Would be great if everyone had the opportunity to be a religious and cultural minority so they can see the flip side of the coin.

Yes. I, in fact, just learned recently that according to some, I put myself in grave danger by taking an improper communion (under pressure) at the age of 13. Maybe I should be as freaked out as Gilligan on the "Waiting for Watubi" episode.:idontno:

Frankly I have always found the choice of a crucified and bleeding man as a religion's focal point to be a little creepy................not to mention the depictions of saints - full of arrows, being roasted alive, with their boobs cut off, on the rack etc.

The early Christians had some major issues because of the rumors that they were cannibals (eating flesh and drinking blood).

Geez! Sounds a little too much like a segment of my DVD collection.


Extreme alcoholics who insist on wine over juice or abstaining - well, that's their (dumbass IMO) choice.

Maybe they have a problem with high fructose corn syrup.:idontno:
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#65
Man, I didn't read my own post. Geo I meant to say "You could be right about this", sorry.

Poppy, I thought you were just very confident in your position. As it turn out, I think you were correct.
Banned
#66
Poppy, I thought you were just very confident in your position. As it turn out, I think you were correct.


You could be right about this. :biggrin:
Teresa avatar
SoWal Guide
#67
It really all comes down to what you personally do and do not believe...........and a little perspective on how others who do not share your beliefs feel about being forced to participate or being governed by them.

Would be great if everyone had the opportunity to be a religious and cultural minority so they can see the flip side of the coin.

Frankly I have always found the choice of a crucified and bleeding man as a religion's focal point to be a little creepy................not to mention the depictions of saints - full of arrows, being roasted alive, with their boobs cut off, on the rack etc.

The early Christians had some major issues because of the rumors that they were cannibals (eating flesh and drinking blood).

Extreme alcoholics who insist on wine over juice or abstaining - well, that's their (dumbass IMO) choice.

good points scoot. try reading children's bible stories to a child. :eek::eek::eek: even out of a children's bible you personally choose because you like the author, etc. still... :eek::eek::eek:. we skip over a LOT (probably most) of stuff...
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#68
The Bible has amazing stories - adultery, intrigue, genocide, murder, infidelity, sibling rivalry, hidden identitys, genies, you name it! :biggrin:

The story of Esther was one of my faves - I read it as a full length book and loved how Haman got what was coming to him! Found out years later it was a Bible story.
Teresa avatar
SoWal Guide
#69
The Bible has amazing stories - adultery, intrigue, genocide, murder, infidelity, sibling rivalry, hidden identitys, genies, you name it! :biggrin:

The story of Esther was one of my faves - I read it as a full length book and loved how Haman got what was coming to him! Found out years later it was a Bible story.

the violence is something I had never really considered until I started reading to my child.. brother kills brother, heads cut off, all creatures drowned on earth, plagues, smiting and smoting, killing of all the firstborn children, stoning, executions, slaying...

Edited

Bob avatar
SoWal Insider
#70
i have been smitten!
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#71
i have been smitten!

It's the second hand smote that gets you.

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