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CFLs - the bulb everyone except the government hates

30ashopper avatar
30ashopperSoWal Insider
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Though anti-populist in the extreme, the bulb ban in fact evinces none of the polished wonkery you’d expect from sophisticated technocrats. For starters, it’s not clear what the point is. Why should the government try to make consumers use less electricity? There’s no foreign policy reason. Electricity comes mostly from coal, natural gas and nuclear plants, all domestic sources. So presumably the reason has something to do with air pollution or carbon-dioxide emissions.

But banning light bulbs is one of the least efficient ways imaginable to attack those problems. A lamp using power from a clean source is treated the same as a lamp using power from a dirty source. A ban gives electricity producers no incentive to reduce emissions.

Nor does it allow households to make choices about how best to conserve electricity. A well-designed policy would allow different people to make different tradeoffs among different uses to produce the most happiness (“utility” in econ-speak) for a given amount of power. Maybe I want to burn a lot of incandescent bulbs but dry my clothes outdoors and keep the air conditioner off. Maybe I want to read by warm golden light instead of watching a giant plasma TV.

What matters, from a public policy perspective, isn’t any given choice but the total amount of electricity I use (which is itself only a proxy for the total emissions caused by generating that electricity). If they’re really interested in environmental quality, policy makers shouldn’t care how households get to that total. They should just raise the price of electricity, through taxes or higher rates, to discourage using it.

Instead, the law raises the price of light bulbs, but not the price of using them. In fact, its supporters loudly proclaim that the new bulbs will cost less to use. If true, the savings could encourage people to keep the lights on longer.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...ncle-sam-gets-to-choose-virginia-postrel.html

Crony capitalism at its best. Poorly designed, negatively impacting those that are most vulnerable the most, and accomplishing very little of the overarching goal it was supposed to address.

Edited

Replies

57
poppyBanned
#3
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...ncle-sam-gets-to-choose-virginia-postrel.html

Crony capitalism at its best. Poorly designed, negatively impacting those that are most vulnerable the most, and accomplishing very little of the overarching goal it was supposed to address.

Boy you just won't let this lightbulb thing go will you? Nice opinion piece supporting a viewpoint. The logic here would suggest those with high mileage vehicles will take a longer route to their destinations. I switched every bulb in my home and still turn off lights when leaving a room and I am enjoying the savings.
30ashopper avatar
30ashopperSoWal InsiderAuthor
#4
What right does the federal government have that allows it to tell me what kind of light bulb I can buy? I think the arguments stand on their own.
Douglas the Intrepid avatar
Douglas the IntrepidBeach Fanatic
#5
I think the argument that something needs to be done about the squandering of resources unneccesarily supercedes having more choices at retail quite nicely. Personally I am pleased with the decision, as are most rational human beings.
PearlSB4U avatar
PearlSB4UBeach Fanatic
#6
the bulb everyone except the government hates

Nope, sorry, I don't hate the CFL bulbs; I like them.
30ashopper avatar
30ashopperSoWal InsiderAuthor
#7
I think the argument that something needs to be done about the squandering of resources unneccesarily supercedes having more choices at retail quite nicely. Personally I am pleased with the decision, as are most rational human beings.

I don't understand this way of thinking. What you're basically saying is you feel people should be herded like sheep because they aren't capable of making what you consider to be the right decisions on their own. Further, the role sheep herder should be given to the federal government, despite the fact that the Constitution doesn't give it that authority, and despite the fact that the herder is partially blind and has a bad habit of running his sheep off a cliff. I don't see why a rational human being would see this is the right approach to the problem. :cool:
30ashopper avatar
30ashopperSoWal InsiderAuthor
#8
Nope, sorry, I don't hate the CFL bulbs; I like them.

This raises an interesting question - if the product is superior (as you feel it is), why does the federal government need to shove them down consumer's throats?
Douglas the Intrepid avatar
Douglas the IntrepidBeach Fanatic
#9
Using significantly less resources for equivalent performance is the right decision period. Everything shouldn't be viewed only through the short sighted lens of politics. Looking at the big picture and our worlds dwindling resources is the more responsible route. Unfortunately some just have political axes to grind to everyone elses detriment. It's refreshing to have our government realize that.
AlphaCrab avatar
AlphaCrabBeach Fanatic
#10
Shopper--I am a totally rational human being, and, I too love CFL's (and now they even come in bright white and soft white). I hope next the government will totally ban plastic bags and water bottles in the U.S.(like the evil Chinaese gov't). Come on Shopper, I think just about everyone needs a little something shoved down their throats every now and then, even if it is the big, bad Government--better them than Monsanto.
PearlSB4U avatar
PearlSB4UBeach Fanatic
#11
What right does the federal government have that allows it to tell me what kind of light bulb I can buy?

Seems like we need to debate Basic Philosophies of Government:

IF you accept that humans are social animals, & will live in groups, Then, maybe you'll accept that "government" is the institution that humans use to make & administer the rules/policies for living in groups.

Q: When should a government have the right/power to dictate certain things to individual citizens?
A: when--without such right/power--individual actions would be too detrimental to the group as a whole.

As a group, by consensus, we've decided that certain actions are illegal: running red lights, polluting the environment, killing, stealing...
We've also decided that cars must have a minimum mpg rating.
Likewise, we (the gov't) can decide that light bulbs must have a minimum efficiency rating.

It all comes down to the rights & responsibilities of the individual vs. the rights & responsibilities of the group.

Edited

30ashopper avatar
30ashopperSoWal InsiderAuthor
#12
Using significantly less resources for equivalent performance is the right decision period. Everything shouldn't be viewed only through the short sighted lens of politics. Looking at the big picture and our worlds dwindling resources is the more responsible route. Unfortunately some just have political axes to grind to everyone elses detriment. It's refreshing to have our government realize that.

If CFL's were shown to consume more resources (Amercian jobs lost, personal income expended, basic resources used, expenses related to disposal, non-renewable energy consumed) than incandescents, this would then be a bad decision correct?

Shopper--I am a totally rational human being, and, I too love CFL's (and now they even come in bright white and soft white). I hope next the government will totally ban plastic bags and water bottles in the U.S.(like the evil Chinaese gov't). Come on Shopper, I think just about everyone needs a little something shoved down their throats every now and then, even if it is the big, bad Government--better them than Monsanto.

I don't. I believe in freedom and individual responsiblity.
poppyBanned
#13
Then stop wearing your seatbelt and argue with the patrol officer you were just exercising your freedom and individual responsiblity.
LuciferSam avatar
LuciferSamBanned
#14
I cant' tell the difference in my ceiling lights. Right now I have one odd CFL next to the incandescents.
Bob avatar
BobSoWal Insider
#15
i believe in freedom, and individual responsibility to more than my own selfish desires
Lake View Too avatar
Lake View TooSoWal Insider
#16
i believe in freedom, and individual responsibility to more than my own selfish desires

Dang, what kind of American are you, showing responsibility to the entire planet?
30ashopper avatar
30ashopperSoWal InsiderAuthor
#17
Seems like we need to debate Basic Philosophies of Government:

IF you accept that humans are social animals, & will live in groups, Then, maybe you'll accept that "government" is the institution that humans use to make & administer the rules/policies for living in groups.

Q: When should a government have the right/power to dictate certain things to individual citizens?
A: when--without such right/power--individual actions would be too detrimental to the group as a whole.

As a group, by consensus, we've decided that certain actions are illegal: running red lights, polluting the environment, killing, stealing...
We've also decided that cars must have a minimum mpg rating.
Likewise, we (the gov't) can decide that light bulbs must have a minimum efficiency rating.

It all comes down to the rights & responsibilities of the individual vs. the rights & responsibilities of the group.

AFAIC the only rules/policies the federal government has a right to enact must meet Constitution muster. (You might disagree with me on this.) States on the other hand have more control. For example, the state of California outlawed incandescent prior to the federal ban. What you're doing is taking this one step too far - you are attempting to apply control never granted to you. This failure outweighs any good you might think you are doing.
30ashopper avatar
30ashopperSoWal InsiderAuthor
#18
i believe in freedom, and individual responsibility to more than my own selfish desires

If my house is powered by solar, why should I not be allowed to use a certain type of light bulb? If I decide to cut down on my energy consumption by working from home, or riding a bike to work instead of using CFLs, why should I be punished by the government by being forced to use a certain type of bulb as well?
LuciferSam avatar
LuciferSamBanned
#19
I will say this though. I loves me my plastic shopping bags. I'll stock up on those. I hate those dorky tote bags.
PearlSB4U avatar
PearlSB4UBeach Fanatic
#20
AFAIC the only rules/policies the federal government has a right to enact must meet Constitution muster. (You might disagree with me on this.) States on the other hand have more control. For example, the state of California outlawed incandescent prior to the federal ban. What you're doing is taking this one step too far - you are attempting to apply control never granted to you. This failure outweighs any good you might think you are doing.

Now you've focused the debate on our system of Federalism--& what rights the Fed Gov't has vis-a-vis the State Govts vis-a-vis individual citizens. OK, I'll accept that under our system of Federalism, the rights/powers granted to the Fed Govt are different from those granted to the States. If I understand what you're saying, then, you agree that a State Govt has the right/power to set a minimum efficiency for the manufacture & sale of light bulbs?

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