CIA and torture

I call it reflection. Apparently, (based on other posts) the Attorney General is never beholden to the President who appoints him (especially when such a person's career was pulled from the political salvage yard). I'll stipulate to that. I presume the AG is obligated to pursue justice no matter who's toe's he may tread upon? Is it not relevant and prudent to review a man's past who has unilateral authority to choose who/what/when/where/how Federal Prosecutions proceed (or do not proceed)??

Imagine if W had appointed a man who Bill Clinton claimed aided his pardoning decision process of a man who was Federally Indicted in the U.S. for tax evasion as well as making oil deals w/ Iran during the Iran Hostage Crisis?? Would that man then be heralded as a non-biased champion of justice? Speaking of Eric Holder's passion for blind justice regardless of collateral damage, here is additional nice reflection........

John Fund: Black Panther Voter Intimidation Case Dropped - WSJ.com
President Obama's Justice Department continues to stonewall inquiries about why it dropped a voter intimidation case against the New Black Panther Party.

The episode?which Bartle Bull, a former civil rights lawyer and publisher of the left-wing Village Voice, calls "the most blatant form of voter intimidation I've ever seen"?began on Election Day 2008. Mr. Bull and others witnessed two Black Panthers in paramilitary garb at a polling place near downtown Philadelphia. (Some of this behavior is on YouTube.)

One of them, they say, brandished a nightstick at the entrance and pointed it at voters and both made racial threats. Mr. Bull says he heard one yell "You are about to be ruled by the black man, cracker!"

When none of the defendants filed any response to the complaint or appeared in federal district court in Philadelphia to answer the suit, it appeared almost certain Justice would have prevailed by default. Instead, the department in May suddenly allowed the party and two of the three defendants to walk away. Against the third defendant, Minister King Samir Shabazz, it sought only an injunction barring him from displaying a weapon within 100 feet of a Philadelphia polling place for the next three years?action that's already illegal under existing law.

Since you brought it up, who else was involved in Iran Contra? Don't be shy.

I call it reflection. Apparently, (based on other posts) the Attorney General is never beholden to the President who appoints him (especially when such a person's career was pulled from the political salvage yard). I'll stipulate to that. I presume the AG is obligated to pursue justice no matter who's toe's he may tread upon? Is it not relevant and prudent to review a man's past who has unilateral authority to choose who/what/when/where/how Federal Prosecutions proceed (or do not proceed)??

Imagine if W had appointed a man who Bill Clinton claimed aided his pardoning decision process of a man who was Federally Indicted in the U.S. for tax evasion as well as making oil deals w/ Iran during the Iran Hostage Crisis?? Would that man then be heralded as a non-biased champion of justice? Speaking of Eric Holder's passion for blind justice regardless of collateral damage, here is additional nice reflection........

John Fund: Black Panther Voter Intimidation Case Dropped - WSJ.com
President Obama's Justice Department continues to stonewall inquiries about why it dropped a voter intimidation case against the New Black Panther Party.

The episode?which Bartle Bull, a former civil rights lawyer and publisher of the left-wing Village Voice, calls "the most blatant form of voter intimidation I've ever seen"?began on Election Day 2008. Mr. Bull and others witnessed two Black Panthers in paramilitary garb at a polling place near downtown Philadelphia. (Some of this behavior is on YouTube.)

One of them, they say, brandished a nightstick at the entrance and pointed it at voters and both made racial threats. Mr. Bull says he heard one yell "You are about to be ruled by the black man, cracker!"

When none of the defendants filed any response to the complaint or appeared in federal district court in Philadelphia to answer the suit, it appeared almost certain Justice would have prevailed by default. Instead, the department in May suddenly allowed the party and two of the three defendants to walk away. Against the third defendant, Minister King Samir Shabazz, it sought only an injunction barring him from displaying a weapon within 100 feet of a Philadelphia polling place for the next three years?action that's already illegal under existing law.

A little constructive criticism. Your writing and presentation skills suck to the point of near criminality. I would venture that even those who might happen to agree with your disjointed ramblings dread the thought of reading the crap you spew out on this board. Go back to school, attend a seminar or something.

Since you brought it up, who else was involved in Iran Contra? Don't be shy.

I know and I assume you know as well? How many involved w/ Iran Contra did Eric Holder facilitate a Presidential Pardon? And after doing so, Holder proclaimed he was ?unaware of some aspects of Rich's background.?

If I know and you know, how did our current Attorney General not know??

Read all about it...... Iran–Contra affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

VOA News - CIA Interrogation Report Could Lead to Prosecution of Interrogators CIA Interrogation Report Could Lead to Prosecution of Interrogators
By Carolyn Presutti
Washington
26 August 2009


Obama administration released the report under legal pressure from the American Civil Liberties Union
Obama administration released the report under legal pressure from the American Civil Liberties Union
A previously classified report on CIA interrogations of terror suspects was released Monday. The Obama administration released the report under legal pressure from the American Civil Liberties Union. The information in the report could lead to prosecutions of some who interrogated suspects during the administration of President George W. Bush.

The report is 109 pages long. Nearly half remains classified and is blacked out.

It details CIA interrogations of high profile, mainly al-Qaida, suspects in the aftermath of the World Trade Center attacks.

It lists methods used on a suspected plotter of the 2000 attack on the USS Cole, which killed 17 US sailors. The report says he was threatened with an electric drill while he was wearing a hood.

The report confirms that the self-proclaimed mastermind of the September 11 attacks, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, was waterboarded 183 times.

It says interrogators told him his children would be killed if the US came under attack again.

Attorney General Eric Holder has appointed a prosecutor to investigate. While supporting his attorney general, President Obama has been reluctant to bring charges against interrogators if they acted within legal guidelines at the time.

"We must leave these methods where they belong - in the past," Mr. Obama said. "They are not who we are and they are not America."

When they severed the heads of Americans off,...

ALL BETS ARE OFF!!

jmo

So we should have loaded up jets and flown them into Islamic land marks?

So we should have loaded up jets and flown them into Islamic land marks?

Jets, Ships, Helicopters, missles and everything else at our disposal and we wouldnt be there now...The whole war would have been over in 36 hours....


what else?

We're talking about interrogation tactics anyway.....

Flying airplanes at them to get some information doessnt make a lot of sense....

We're talking about interrogation tactics anyway.....

Flying airplanes at them to get some information doessnt make a lot of sense....

I'm just saying that if we are going to use their tactics against them why not use all of them?

Shall we measure you for a vest of explosives?

If we are so much more superior to them, why do we feel the need to stoop to their level, shouldn't our ways be sufficient (being superior and all)?

I'm just saying that if we are going to use their tactics against them why not use all of them?

Shall we measure you for a vest of explosives?

If we are so much more superior to them, why do we feel the need to stoop to their level, shouldn't our ways be sufficient (being superior and all)?

Of course we should use their tactics against them. For instance, if we're ever attacked, we should put our own civilians in harms way as a shield, starting with certain red states.

I'm just saying that if we are going to use their tactics against them why not use all of them?

Shall we measure you for a vest of explosives?

If we are so much more superior to them, why do we feel the need to stoop to their level, shouldn't our ways be sufficient (being superior and all)?

Help me here...How can you compare waterboarding(pick your tactic) to someone getting their head sawed off?????

Did we saw one of their heads off????

Of course we should use their tactics against them. For instance, if we're ever attacked, we should put our own civilians in harms way as a shield, starting with certain red states.

Laughing at the guys and gals that protect your right and privelege to spew on the internet???

I hope they're reading this.....

His name is LUCY FUR SAM.....

Laughing at the guys and gals that protect your right and privelege to spew on the internet???

I hope they're reading this.....

His name is LUCY FUR SAM.....

Per usual you missed the point which is that our country should never resort to underhanded tactics employed by other countries in wartime. :roll: But if we ever do, let's start with the red states.:funn:

Per usual you missed the point which is that our country should never resort to underhanded tactics employed by other countries in wartime. :roll: But if we ever do, let's start with the red states.:funn:

And my point is when did we ever do that????

:angry:

Did I leave any out?

And my point is when did we ever do that????

:angry:

Did I leave any out?

Never. That's what I'm saying. Putting civilians in harms way is an asymetrical tactic employed by other countries against us just like torture and suicide bombing. It falls in the same category. You are justifying the use of tactics by us simply because other countries employ them against us. And I'm saying OK, then by that reasoning why not resort to using our civilians as human shields? Other countries do it against us. The correct answer is that there will always be tactics we should never use, even though other countries effectively use them against us. That comes with being the greatest strongest country on earth. I'l refrain from red state trash talk this time.

Never. That's what I'm saying. Putting civilians in harms way is an asymetrical tactic employed by other countries against us just like torture and suicide bombing. It falls in the same category. You are justifying the use of tactics by us simply because other countries employ them against us. And I'm saying OK, then by that reasoning why not resort to using our civilians as human shields? Other countries do it against us. The correct answer is that there will always be tactics we should never use, even though other countries effectively use them against us. That comes with being the greatest strongest country on earth. I'l refrain from red state trash talk this time.

Arguing about hypotheticals is difficult....

Arguing about hypotheticals is difficult....

It sure is. Like the ticking time bomb scenario. To me that's the king of hypotheticals. It's very hard for me to justify so-called enhanced interrogation based on that unlikely scenario.

It sure is. Like the ticking time bomb scenario. To me that's the king of hypotheticals. It's very hard for me to justify so-called enhanced interrogation based on that unlikely scenario.

If it's happened to you once already, is it still hypothetical?

If it's happened to you once already, is it still hypothetical?

Anything that you're planning and preparing for is hypothetical, and each situation is different. If something has already happened, it means your planning and preparation has failed. Even though 9/11 did occur, yes, future time bomb scenarios are hypothetical. I believe that our current state of vigilance would have prevented 9/11 much more than any enhanced interrogation techniques. As for the future, I think employment prospects for Jack Bauer types are limited. That's just my opinion.

What's a red state? And, why not use all of them?

which country is the only user of atomic weapons against civilians? you speak of terrorism as it could not be applicable to you or your country.

What's a red state? And, why not use all of them?

In all seriousness the idea of us using our people as human shields like other countries do is of course way over the top, but I also have similar, but not exactly the same negative thoughts about us using torture. I was just pointing out that our country is so strong we should avoid using certain tactics just because other countries use them. I used human shields as an example. A superpower would never think of doing that. The question remains, when if ever is the use of torture by a superpower justifiable. Ticking time bomb scenario? Punishment? Revenge? Extract confessions? Gives your voter base a warm fuzzy feeling? Deter future terrorist attacks? Then after that question is answered, how effective is torture in those situations? Red states are states that vote Republican

In all seriousness the idea of us using our people as human shields like other countries do is of course way over the top, but I also have similar, but not exactly the same negative thoughts about us using torture. I was just pointing out that our country is so strong we should avoid using certain tactics just because other countries use them. I used human shields as an example. A superpower would never think of doing that. The question remains, when if ever is the use of torture by a superpower justifiable. Ticking time bomb scenario? Punishment? Revenge? Extract confessions? Gives your voter base a warm fuzzy feeling? Deter future terrorist attacks? Then after that question is answered, how effective is torture in those situations? Red states are states that vote Republican

In the ticking time bomb scenario how would you extract information to stop the bomb? Don't tell me what you wouldn't do-------Tell me what you would do. The Army field manual now says that you can't use sleep deprivation or even loud music.

In the ticking time bomb scenario how would you extract information to stop the bomb? Don't tell me what you wouldn't do-------Tell me what you would do. The Army field manual now says that you can't use sleep deprivation or even loud music.

What I would do really depends how difficult it is to get the information. You asking how far I would go? Would I possibly break the law to save the earth sure? To get really hypothetical, would you torture you own mother with power drills and blow torches if it was absolutely the only way to save mankind? Just giving you a taste of your own medicine.

Allot of deflection, no meat! If a country authorizes torture, it is a terrorist nation! You have NO right to torture in my name!
Infantrymen, of which I was one once when I was young, will suffer more than usual if the empire accepts the dark side as OK with them! perhaps you never served in the big green man eating machine, but trust me there is really little concern from the likes of a cheney for the soldiers who bear the brunt of this.

Thank you for your post. I spent 23 years in the big green man eating machine and 7 years supporting them, and retired last year. You are exactly correct. I wish I could say more but have signed non disclosure agreements. Just will say that that little Dick should have gone away a long time ago and was probably a big part of Bush Jr becoming one of America's worst Presidents. When Reagan and Bush Sr were some of this best.

Good luck to President Obama for trying to correct the last 8 years of problems......we are really feeling it down here in SOWAL and around most parts of this country.