Help! Bulldozing on Bay Right Now

JDarg,

I am too. However, is code enforcement usually not brought in to check a violation? It is kind of like calling the police before a crime has happened. I agree 100% with you that we should check if proper permitting is in place, but what happens when the "developer" or as in the example I used, the single family lot owner, is hung out there, accused, and convicted by people on this board prior to establishing that he had done anything wrong? I am not sure what the end result was, but I assume he was in the right as no more was mentioned on the subject.

If Skunkape had called Walton County first and checked and found out that the proper "permits" were not in place to remove debris and old tires, and then called the code enforcement, that would be one thing. All I am saying is follow the proper channels and don't assume that everyone who sticks a shovel in the ground is guilty of doing something "illegal".

Kev

Kevin- I understand your point, but I think having an "alert" posted on this board is helpful on both sides. Maybe somebody that knew something about the bulldozing might have been on the board and offered some valuable info- like "I know that developer and he has permits" or similar. And personally, I would not have known who to call first either, and would have posted the same "help" message. This is happening in my neighborhood, and I am watching.

I also would like to find out the outcome of yesterday's code enforcement visit. How do we do that? The fact that the officer came, left, and work continued could mean 2 things- that there was not a violation, OR, that there was, but they waited until the officer left to finish up what they started. I would like to know what scenario actually happened, since it could go wither way.

If I thought someone was committing a crime, I'd call the police, not doublecheck the local laws and statutes and make a citizens arrest. Same for a potential code violation.

If they are doing nothing wrong they have nothing to worry about and probably appreciate knowing they have neighbors protecting the area.

We're not assuming that anyone who cuts down a tree or clears a lot is doing something wrong, but there are certain red flags that cause general alarm.....such as a lone bulldozer making shoreline changes just before a holiday weekend.

JDarg,

I am too. However, is code enforcement usually not brought in to check a violation? It is kind of like calling the police before a crime has happened. I agree 100% with you that we should check if proper permitting is in place, but what happens when the "developer" or as in the example I used, the single family lot owner, is hung out there, accused, and convicted by people on this board prior to establishing that he had done anything wrong? I am not sure what the end result was, but I assume he was in the right as no more was mentioned on the subject.

If Skunkape had called Walton County first and checked and found out that the proper "permits" were not in place to remove debris and old tires, and then called the code enforcement, that would be one thing. All I am saying is follow the proper channels and don't assume that everyone who sticks a shovel in the ground is guilty of doing something "illegal".

Kev

Just FYI -- if you see a backhoe in the water of the bay dredging up sand and building up land, it is pretty safe to assume that there is illegal activity going on. After looking into the permitting process required to build a dock, I knew amateur backhoe creation of land was verboten.

As for that oak...well, its part of the shoreline, it's roots are holding a substantial portion of the land stable. Knocking it down with a backhoe just seems counterproductive on his part unless he wants to lose another 8-10 feet of property.

Calling county code enforcement would be the one call for permit issues?they are the county agency to deal with checking to see if proper permits are in place. Part of the permit process is making sure all applicable agencies are aware of the permits and the allowable operations. Often it is just a matter of checking the file to see if permits for a particular site are in place. My guess is that the red flag yesterday was the cloud of silt going unchecked into the bay. Typically, in a permit it would spell out the use of turbidity barriers and other measures to protect the quality of the body of water.

While cleaning the shoreline of debris and trash is usually a good thing, doing so in such a manner as to stir up large amounts of unchecked silt is not a good thing. When silt is stirred up in the bay, it is to the aquatic animals and plants as a dust storm would be to us, that is, it makes it hard or impossible for the creatures to breath and in some cases can bury the plants and animals to a point that they cannot recover. This can upset the balance of the water body, cause prolonged degradation of the water quality, and thus affect the fish etc.; not that that has necessarily occurred in this case, but having code enforcement check on permits generally cannot hurt.

Kevin-I agree that cleaning up trash is a good thing. The way I noticed the whole clean up was going outside and noticing a strange milky flow of water in the otherwise clear bay. It didn't take long to see that the milky flow's source was work on the shoreline and it was the result of digging into the clay that constitutes the bank. I am no biologist nor an environmental alarmist, but I am all too familiar with what dredging and stirring up silt in an estuarial bay does to the ecosystem-Lake Ponchartrain was essentially dead for years due to dredging. As BDarg noted, it was largely due to increasing the water's turbidity and blocking light from reaching the critters at the bottom of the food chain that are powered by photosynthesis. OK, I know the whole bay wasn't going to be killed off by the activity, but I found it hard to believe there was zero effort to put out a floating containment system to trap sediment and lord knows what else was liberated from the bank. Luckily, things seem to be back to normal this morning. And FYI, the backhoe is sitting idle currently;perhaps something was being done improperly and work has been stopped until things are done correctly

I would like to point out that by the time the Code Enforcement came to the property, the trackhoe operator had been down most of the entire length of the development's bayfront property. He was at the eastern end by the time Code Enforcement arrived.

As Bdarg stated, Code Enforcement is the department in charge of checking permits, and they are the correct dept to contact if you suspect illegal behavior of such things as cleaning out the Bay with at trackhoe.

BTW, that Oak Tree was on a privately owned lot, not land owned by the HOA. I wonder if the owner of that lot is aware of the lost tree and lost land.

and since you asked, KevinC, the property to which you earlier referenced, was noted by Code Enforcement as not having proper permits for filling, and that is what began that post. If you want to point fingers on that one, you should begin with Code Enforcement.

Unfortunately the track record around here is that people do things without getting the proper permits or using the proper procedures...because the damage often can not be repaired, or if so, will take years to repair, I vote for caution on the part of the neighbors/citizens.

if someone has the proper permits and is doing the work properly, they should not mind demonstrating that.

If not, then I am happy that someone stops them before too much damage is done!

Are permits required to be posted on the property? I know building permits are required to be posted. If they are not required, it sure seems like an easy solution for people to see proper permits are in place, and might save some calls to Code Enforcement.

Good idea. Let;s email Cindy Meadows with the suggestion.

All good comments. I didn't realize the extent of the work performed. I thought it was mainly cleaning up the tires etc. which I still think is a good thing.

And Smiling Joe, I was not trying to point a finger at you or I would have done so directly. I don't know the particulars of that incident other than what you initially alleged and the subsequent rebuttal of the owner, followed by complete silence.

No one has commented on the large scale dredging project right around the corner from here. I would venture that the environmental impact will be immense when compared to what just occured. Not saying it's right, just making an observation.

I for one am not certain which large-scale dredging project about which you are talking. The ones that I am aware of are permitted and seem to be maintaining the barriers and such. I know that the canals around the north end of CR 283 are being dredged, as well as the old causeway through Oyster Lake. Then of course the beach renourishment project in Destin. I imagine there are some more as well

All good comments. I didn't realize the extent of the work performed. I thought it was mainly cleaning up the tires etc. which I still think is a good thing.

And Smiling Joe, I was not trying to point a finger at you or I would have done so directly. I don't know the particulars of that incident other than what you initially alleged and the subsequent rebuttal of the owner, followed by complete silence.

No one has commented on the large scale dredging project right around the corner from here. I would venture that the environmental impact will be immense when compared to what just occured. Not saying it's right, just making an observation.

I am guessing you are talking about the 30-A project that is just know entering permitting. I can guarantee you that it will have its permits in place before work is started. By the way, turbidity monitoring is required in beach restoration projects and the levels allowed are very specific. They are checked with every load that is pumped onto the beach. If those levels are exceeded, the project is immediately stopped and the dredge must move to another area of the borrow site. To date, those levels have not been exceeded for the Walton/Destin project.

KevinC is referring to Little's Canal and Baker Canal being dredged in Daughettes. They are permitted, in dredging has begun. There is an owner at the mouth of one of the canals, who works for the DEP, who fought the dredging for a number of years. I will guess that he will be keeping a close eye on things.

KevinC is referring to Little's Canal and Baker Canal being dredged in Daughettes. They are permitted, in dredging has begun. There is an owner at the mouth of one of the canals, who works for the DEP, who fought the dredging for a number of years. I will guess that he will be keeping a close eye on things.

Thanks SJ for the clarification. I guess I just have a different perspective in what large scale is

I am now wondering if KevinC is an owner in this particular s/d which hasn't yet been named. Seems he is rather quick on the defense to know what is just around the corner, so he obviously knows the property which is being discussed. KevinC

Smiling Joe,

Not sure I understand your question. I am not an owner in the subdivision in question. Earlier this spring, I was looking for property along the bay or canals with water access that could accommodate larger boats and I asked about these neighborhoods on a different thread.


I was just surprised the residents' response to yesterday's incident when dredge work in their neighborhood will be much more environmentally invasive. Especially if dredging is to occur hundreds of feet out in the bay to the intracoastal canal? Talk about silt. Of course I would think property values will increase if you can get a boat in and out of there. But isn't that so often the tradeoff.

BeachSi02, as for scale I guess it is all relative. Compared to what took place yesterday, the canal/bay dredging in the neighborhood to the east will seem large to most, including the fellow DEP resident who according to Smiling Joe spent years fighting against it. By the same token I am sure if you ask the folks alarmed by yesterday's events, it was major to them.

All good comments. I didn't realize the extent of the work performed. I thought it was mainly cleaning up the tires etc. which I still think is a good thing.

And Smiling Joe, I was not trying to point a finger at you or I would have done so directly. I don't know the particulars of that incident other than what you initially alleged and the subsequent rebuttal of the owner, followed by complete silence.

No one has commented on the large scale dredging project right around the corner from here. I would venture that the environmental impact will be immense when compared to what just occured. Not saying it's right, just making an observation.

Did the owners of the Silverleaf property ever respond? I think the responses all came from someone talking in generalities who had never seen the property.

Hayduke Lives

Hayduke Lives

:nono1: Now, now, no need for that! Stop work order dated yesterday is posted...pics to follow

Apparently, there is now a stop work order posted on the property sighting lack of permits and silt control measures.

Rapunzel,

I may be mistaken but I thought one of the last posts came from the owner where he/she threatened to sue some people on the board for slander?

BeachSi02, as for scale I guess it is all relative. Compared to what took place yesterday, the canal/bay dredging in the neighborhood to the east will seem large to most, including the fellow DEP resident who according to Smiling Joe spent years fighting against it.

I'm sure his fight against it had nothing to do with the fact that boat traffic would pick up right beside his house.

Rapunzel,

I may be mistaken but I thought one of the last posts came from the owner where he/she threatened to sue some people on the board for slander?

Right, and his post was also followed by mine thanking him for stating his side of the case. Then, came another poster who said it was done on a holiday weekend, when Code Enforcement couldn't enforce, blah, blah, blah.

Back to this issue, most of the damage was done prior to Code Enforcement coming out and issuing the stop Work Order. A big track hoe can do a lot of damage very quickly, and that is why we all have to keep our eyes and ears open and not be afraid to contact Code Enforcement about suspicious behavior.

So KevinC, on the other thread about the property with the Stop Work Order, the owner and another person said that I had no right to suggest that he was filling in wetlands illegally, after seeing the Stop Work Order Posted. Do you also say that I should not post this one which also has a Stop Work Order posted as of yesterday afternoon, for not requesting and being issued the appropriate permits (ie -- illegal)? People not taking the appropriate steps is why we had to create rules in the first place.

Rapunzel,

I may be mistaken but I thought one of the last posts came from the owner where he/she threatened to sue some people on the board for slander?

That which I posted was not slander and was simply pointing out what Code Enforcement did. Somehow it turned into a mosquito control issue, but there was not slander.