Help! Bulldozing on Bay Right Now

Actually, Kevin C, what I was asksing is what is behind your statement? You seemed to have an intense concern, and I just wondered what it was.

I am familiar with the ecological impact of dredging and the DEP and Corps of Engineers permitting requirements. I wanted to know what your specific concern was that you would be so concerned with a legal procedure (albeit one that everyone may not agree with) and an obviously illegal procedure that no one was overseeing.

KevinC,

As for the Golpher Tortoise relocation in Daughettes, at least they are aware that the tortoise is on the property and willing to pay to relocate the tortoise. They could have easily pretended that they didn't see the hole, and saved the additional costs, by killing the Tortoise. I don't think the track hoe operator working in Grayton Bayou, working without propert permits, would even think about looking for a Golpher Tortoise hole. By trying to compare the two projects, one legal and one illegal, you are trying to take away from the fact that the unpermitted project was done illegally (without permits), according to Code Enforcement (Walton County). If you want to discuss other issues of dredging canals, start a new thread, so as not to confuse the two. It is good to discuss, but you are in the wrong thread.

Goodwitch#58,

As for my concern being intense I think you are missing my point completely. I was merely pointing out that some of the people on this board were very quick in condemning the recent cleanup activities (as it turns out after the fact for good reason) for the sake of the environment. I am not going to argue with you over what constitutes greater degradation of the environment as it very clear.

I just find it intense-ly interesting that the same people who are condemning this work have nothing to say about the dredging, other than perhaps one guy who works for the DEP who I guess is none of you or he would have posted something. Am I missing something Goodwitch#58? Since you seem to know a lot about the DEP and the process, I suspect you know much more than I. Maybe you guys banned together and fought this for years alongside the DEP guy? As you state that you are familiar with the ecological impact of dredging could you please enlighten us as surely this would pertain to the backhoe discussion at hand.

Goodwitch#58,

As for my concern being intense I think you are missing my point completely. I was merely pointing out that some of the people on this board were very quick in condemning the recent cleanup activities (as it turns out after the fact for good reason) for the sake of the environment. I am not going to argue with you over what constitutes greater degradation of the environment as it very clear.

More than once, you have stated that you think it's good for us to post these issues of work without permits, only after the fact of it being posted by Code Enforcement as a violation. Do you not think it is appropriate to question these things, when the question arises, as opposed to after the fact?

Again, if you want to talk about other projects, illegal or legal, start a new thread. This one is about the work being done without permits in Grayton Bayou. Discussion on another thread is more than welcome, concerning the pemitted dredging of the canals in Daughettes. They are completely different issues, just like dredging the Gulf for beach sand is different.

As Smilin Joe has stated, the issue here was work being done without permits.

Environmental impact will be similar, however, permits and proper procedures have been followed for the dredging...we'll have to see how the work actually is done. The point is that because of the permits, someone in authority is overseeing the project.

In the case of Grayton Bayou, work was done without following any proper procedures and that needed to be stopped, and it was.

KevinC,

My take on this is that SoWal needs this watch group because it is not uncommon for a developer or owner to do the "work" first (whatever it might be) and then it is done. They may only have to pay a small fine if any, but they have accomplished whatever they wanted without going through the permitting process.

It happens here as well. The penalties need to be very severe to prevent this! I don't think it will stop unless the offenders know they stand to suffer a severe financial burden.

Why do you think they do these activities on holiday weekends or at midnight?

I applaud those who are keeping an eye out for the unscrupulous!
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Goodwitch,

I'm well aware of what the issues are in this thread. I was simply inquiring as to your thoughts about the dredging and impacts and whether you were for or against it. I wasn't surprised by your reluctance to shed any light on these questions, as these are certainly challenging issues. I'm glad the people in the area have a positive outcome as for the backhoe deal. In this case I am not sure if they were trying to hide anything as the activity seems to have taken place in daylight according to initial posts in the middle of the week. Ignorance of the law is no defense, but has anyone talked with the homeowner in question?

I really have nothing further to add on this as I'm sure I've stretched Smiling Joe's patience for apparently posting in the wrong thread.

Kevin

There is no homeowner in question. In fact, there are no homes in the entire subdivision, and it is fairly well hidden. Yes, the guy was working in daylight on a weekday. The reason it was suggested that he may have been avoiding Code Enforcement is due to the fact that he had no permit for the work, nor did he have proper erosion control in place, according to Code Enforcement. Had permits been pulled and proper erosion control systems been in place, no one would have been alarmed, and no one would be suggesting that it was possible that he was trying to turn his back with regards to the law. Like I mentioned earlier, much work can be done in a few hours with such a piece of equipment. Had skunky not reported it, it is likely that no one would have seen it. Code Enforcement does not have enough staff to monitor every project every day.

Kevin-I for one don't mind the dredging. It is both an approved and finite project.

I wonder what they plan to do with all of that lumber which was delilvered yesterday. Don't they need permits to build a seawall?

From the water, it looks like the shoreline was chewed up in a blender.:angry:

And you can bet there will be several calls first thing Tuesday morning to check on the seawall permitting.

Last week I asked Cindy Meadows whether permits for land clearing/filling, etc., needed to be posted just as building permits do. She asked the County Official to respond to her email.

Here is a portion of what he sent to me and her today:

Having said this, our department does not issue permits for sand, clearing, filling, driveways, roads, bridges, or fences. So there would not be a building permit from us on those sites. The Planning Department does issue permits for clearing and those permits should also be posted on the job site.

If you have any more questions, please call me at 267-2084.

Thanks,

Gerry A. Demers, CBO
Deputy Building Official

So, based on this, there should have been a permit from the Planning & Zoning department posted in that area for the work being done that day.

There are currently 2 bright red dumpsters and 3 big piles of 6 x 6 lumber. Work-wise, I think it has been pretty quiet. I drove back there Tuesday and did not see anything posted other than the stop work order.

Last week I asked Cindy Meadows whether permits for land clearing/filling, etc., needed to be posted just as building permits do. She asked the County Official to respond to her email.

Here is a portion of what he sent to me and her today:

Having said this, our department does not issue permits for sand, clearing, filling, driveways, roads, bridges, or fences. So there would not be a building permit from us on those sites. The Planning Department does issue permits for clearing and those permits should also be posted on the job site.

If you have any more questions, please call me at 267-2084.

Thanks,

Gerry A. Demers, CBO
Deputy Building Official

I am confused. Which is it? Do they issue the permits for clearing or do they not? Am I misreading this note?

It is confusing; apparently Cindy forwarded my email to the Building Department official, who is saying his his department does not issue permits for property w/out buildings, but Planning and Zoning does...I am not sure why she didn't ask the Planning and Zoning -- I knew they needed permits, the question was are those permits supposed to be posted in the same way the building permits are.
It only took a week to get this email reply--and it is much more confusing than the original question was!
Please don't ask me to understand/explain the workings of county government minds!

So I guess my next question is who do I call when I see some undocumented construction action over there? By undocumented, I mean working without the permits posted.

I believe Code Enforcement is still the appropriate place to call. I would also call the Commisisoners office and depending on how drastic it was, I'd call the cops.

At least now we know that according to this dude, the clearing, filling, etc., permits are supposed to be posted same as the building ones.

I think.....

Building Dept. issues permits for buildings - other agencies like the planning department, dep, acoe, issue the other permits that SHOULD be posted.

The bay is all kicked up from the wind, and the silt fence that was put up has come loose from it's bearings. Now, the property is eroding at the rate of about an inch an hour. What a nightmare.:angry:

Wonder what will happen if we get a "real" storm....and also wonder if the county folks aka code enforcement are keeping an eye on the project...