Solving the illegal immigration problem from the bottom up
A newly proposed bill attempts to create dialogue
April 10, 2008
By Nate Kelly
Rep. Don Brown, R-DeFuniak Springs, wants law enforcement officials to find out about a person's legal status when they are detained for specific offenses.
House Bill 73, if passed in its current form, would require law enforcement personnel to verify a person's immigration status if charged with DUI or BUI. Currently there is no such requirement.
It would also require all public employers, contractors and subcontractors to participate in a specified federal program to verify legal status for all potential new employees.
A more controversial part of the bill would impose a penalty of up to one year imprisonment on any person who knowingly aids or transports an illegal alien.
Verification of legal status would also be required for those applying for public benefits.
Brown says the bill addresses the illegal immigration problem facing Florida and attempts to "preserve the sovereignty of Florida and rule of law."
The bill is just a first step, it starts the process and creates helpful dialogue, said Brown. Brown acknowledged the State of Florida alone cannot solve illegal immigration since it is a national problem and falls under the Federal Government's jurisdiction.
"Florida can't build a fence across the border or enact federal laws but they can start with enforcing the laws in place now," said the state representative.
As a preemptive move, HB 73 specifies that no local governments have authority to setup sanctuaries to circumnavigate federal laws regarding immigration.
In Brown's opinion there is a lot of opposition to the bill, especially from the construction and farming industries. Usually he is on the side of business, especially small business, but said he can't side with them on this topic because he feels they want to protect their own financial gains at the expense of the law.
On April 4, the bill was workshopped in Committee of State Affairs agenda.
Inspector George Collins of the Okaloosa Sheriff's Department said illegal immigrants are "generally asked anyways" when deputies stop drivers who have no drivers license or attempt to use fake documents. Collins said the State of Florida will not issue driver licenses to illegal immigrants, although they do create identification cards without verifying immigration status.
Any law enforcement officer must have "reasonable suspicion" someone is breaking the law before he can stop them and ask questions, said Collins. Reasonable suspicion is a less strenuous test than probable cause.
"Compliance visits" to local businesses are done by two different means, according to Collins.
First, law enforcement can go to a business and request them to volunteer employment records for verification of validity. This method usually does not produce that much, he said.
The other means is through an investigation, where information is slowly gathered until there is enough evidence for reasonable suspicion. At that point, a law enforcement official will be sent to the business and compel it to release any information on employees.
These "worksite violations" tend to have a "ripple affect" on other businesses who see the penalties of employing illegal immigrants and fire any illegal workers before further investigation can be completed, said Collins.
Local law enforcement personnel can only hold a person for a "reasonable amount of time" while awaiting instructions from federal agents. The allotted time is generally one hour. The closest Immigration and Customs Enforcement office is more than an hour.
The problem of illegal immigration is not just restricted to the financial implications but also humanitarian, said Brown. He theorizes that allowing illegal immigration to thrive it creates a subculture that is extraordinarily exposed to being abused. People are getting exploited and held captive because they don't have legal status and can't turn to the law for fears of deportation, Brown explained.
"No one wants this type of exploitation nor do we want hateful or cruel treatment of illegal immigrants. We simply want to insist on a legal status."
Replies
41
Beach Fanatic
Yes, what was I thinking with my impossibly high (and obviously xenophobic) standard of wanting people to follow basic laws! :roll:Legalizing them would solve the issue I agree.
Either it's a crime and we should be enforcing it, or we should change the laws/policies.
SoWal Insider
Per Fark :Here are nine billion reasons the Feds aren't interested in stopping illegal immigration
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/biz/5695140.html
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/biz/5695140.html
Beach Fanatic
Those of you with turbotax can play around a bit. Put in 25k gross income and use 3 dependents (wife and 2 kids). Maybe the tax laws are different on immigrants as far as what is taxed ( I don't think so but I could be very wrong). But if they are the same then EITC/child credits could kick in on many returns. Instead of not collecting anything as is now occurring on many, a be check would actually be cut from the Treasury up to a few grand per cabeza (those with more kids). I believe the income tax in regards to illegal aliens to be a non issue, seems like it would be a break even or close.
margarita brocolia
................ I want everyone to be able to have a better life but we have to fix our immigration system. Bottom line is economics drives illegal immigration and country policy such as oppression after that. Businesses have to be punished to keep it in check. Very few have or have not been fined properly and in an amount that hurts.
........................
I think much is said about our gov't in the way which they shift the burden of identifying illegals to the employers in the US, rather than having the balls to do it themselves.
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Here's an article about a small town in the DFW Metroplex area that came under fire last year for trying to make landlords do part of the "enforcement". There was what appeared to be racial profiling in traffic stops in this burg also. They wanted the Mexicans to move to other towns so their town didn't have the extra expenses of schooling, health care ..... you name it. (which does create burdens on a community - so answers are needed, but I don't think Farmer's Branch answers are the way to go.
)Anti-Illegal-Immigrant Law OK'd in Texas
By ANABELLE GARAY
The Associated Press
Sunday, May 13, 2007; 5:17 AM
FARMERS BRANCH, Texas -- Voters in this Dallas suburb became the first in the nation Saturday to prohibit landlords from renting to most illegal immigrants.
The ban was approved by a vote of 68 percent to 32 percent in final, unofficial returns.
The balloting marked the first public vote on a local government measure to crack down on illegal immigration.
"It says especially to Congress that we're tired of the out-of-control illegal immigration problem. That if Congress doesn't do something about it, cities will," said Tim O'Hare, a City Council member who was the ordinance's lead proponent.
The ordinance requires apartment managers to verify that renters are U.S. citizens or legal immigrants before leasing to them, with some exceptions.
Property managers or owners who break the rule face a misdemeanor charge punishable by a fine of up to $500.
Council members approved the ordinance in November, then revised it in January to include exemptions for minors, seniors and some families with a mix of legal residents and illegal immigrants.
Farmers Branch has become the site of protests and angry confrontations, and opponents of the regulation gathered enough signatures to force the city to put the measure on the municipal election ballot.
With Saturday's approval of the ban, opponents plan to fight it in court, and will seek a restraining order to stop the city from enforcing it.
The city was already facing four lawsuits brought by civil rights groups, residents, property owners and businesses who contend the ordinance discriminates and that it places landlords in the precarious position of acting as federal immigration officers. Their attorneys say the ordinance attempts to regulate immigration, a duty that is exclusively the federal government's. One lawsuit also alleges the council violated the state open meetings act when deciding on the ordinance.
O'Hare contends the city's economy and quality of life will improve if illegal immigrants are kept out.
Around the country, more than 90 local governments have proposed, passed or rejected laws prohibiting landlords from leasing to illegal immigrants, penalizing businesses that employ them or training police to enforce immigration laws.
Local proposals aimed at regulating illegal immigration often fail to pass constitutional muster, said Muzaffar Chishti, director of the Migration Policy Institute office at New York University School of Law.
"There is significant frustration, so that's what's driving it," Chishti said. "But the simple fact is they cannot do too much other than impress upon the Congress the need for immigration reform.
A federal judge blocked enforcement of the city's ban on rentals to illegal immigrants. This spring the city was found to have asked several apartment complexes (through a question on their application form) to check whether prospective tenants were in the country legally. The City Manager has called the inclusion of the on the rental forms an "unfortunate error".
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Edited
SoWal ExpertAuthor
Even if you attribute all of that $9 billion to illegals paying in (which they didn't), they had a 12% tax rate and we still lost on the deal because of all the social services used - Medicare, uninsured, prison costs etc.
It's estimated that 30% of public health care patients are illegal immigrants and 19% of federal prisoners aren't citizens, so this is a big $ issue.
It's estimated that 30% of public health care patients are illegal immigrants and 19% of federal prisoners aren't citizens, so this is a big $ issue.
Beach Fanatic
The government uses my $ for projects I find much more disagreeable than subsidizing costs for hard working people. I like to have an adequate labor supply as it makes services more available and affordable. The illegal immigrants have been major participants in causing the economic gains of the U.S as a whole. Go look around Atlanta at the houses and the restaurants. The consumer was/is the beneficiary of an abundant labor supply. The economic boom of the last 17 years (ATL) would never have occurred and been sustained w/o the immigrants. Now as work declines many are self deporting preferring to be broke with their wives and children that they haven't seen for 11 years rather than staying here. Many people would have been priced out of the homes they have been able to buy in recent years had they had to rely on solely domestic workers. "But the law is the law" every day laws remain unenforced in myriad ways. Equal protection under the law = equal protection in ignoring the law.
Edited
SoWal ExpertAuthor
It's not usually the "hard-working" people who are being heavily subsidized by the government and its aid programs. :roll:
I gladly pay more for things if it means that the workers get paid a decent wage. You get what you pay for and we just shortchange ourselves when all we see is the $ amount on the final price tag. People biatch about not enough American manufacturing jobs and then shop at Wal-mart.
The argument that we need illegal immigrants as a slave labor class is not a good one IMO! :angry:
I gladly pay more for things if it means that the workers get paid a decent wage. You get what you pay for and we just shortchange ourselves when all we see is the $ amount on the final price tag. People biatch about not enough American manufacturing jobs and then shop at Wal-mart.
The argument that we need illegal immigrants as a slave labor class is not a good one IMO! :angry:
Beach Fanatic
It's not usually the "hard-working" people who are being heavily subsidized by the government and its aid programs. :roll:Luckily then that is not the one I am making. I have stated nothing about slave labor class. When it comes to disposable income many have "fat cash". I am arguing that we need the people here to fill jobs and create jobs. Even with unemployment on the rise where do you find the workers to fill these manufacturing jobs should they be returned here? We need bodies, look at the people retiring from the work force in the years/decades to come. Point me to the slave around here. Happy and hard working is my experience. I am not saying that abuses don't occur but that is not the norm. Carrying on about wages is a different subject entirely, minimum wage is simply redistribution of wealth like taxes except the gov't isn't deciding specifically where it goes to, just that it must go. As a business owner previously, the minimum wage never crossed my mind as I was always paying double, triple, and more. And yes one does get what one pays for but if there is no one able to show up regularly and do the work then that job goes unfilled and why would you want that?
I gladly pay more for things if it means that the workers get paid a decent wage. You get what you pay for and we just shortchange ourselves when all we see is the $ amount on the final price tag. People biatch about not enough American manufacturing jobs and then shop at Wal-mart.
The argument that we need illegal immigrants as a slave labor class is not a good one IMO! :angry:
Beach Fanatic
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to
illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food
assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free
school lunches for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for
illegal aliens.. http:/ /www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and
secondary schooleducation for children here illegally and
they cannot speak a word of English!
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for
the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as
anchor babies. http://transcripts..cnn.com/
TR ANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate
illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7. 30% percent of a ll Fed eral Prison inmates are
illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt..01.html
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens
for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American
wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime
rate that's two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal
aliens.. In particular, th eir ch ildren, are going to
make a huge additional crime problem in the US .
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION
illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as
many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries.
Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and
marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the
total cost of mass deportation of illegal aliens' would
be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of
between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year
period.
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in
remittances back to their countries of origin.
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One
Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The
United States ..' http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
Total cost is a whooping ... $338.3 BILLION A YEAR!!!
And Gordoboy you really think the utilization of illegal workers really outweighs the cost of them being here illegally? According to the above information I don't think so.
illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food
assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free
school lunches for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for
illegal aliens.. http:/ /www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and
secondary schooleducation for children here illegally and
they cannot speak a word of English!
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for
the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as
anchor babies. http://transcripts..cnn.com/
TR ANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate
illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7. 30% percent of a ll Fed eral Prison inmates are
illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt..01.html
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens
for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American
wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime
rate that's two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal
aliens.. In particular, th eir ch ildren, are going to
make a huge additional crime problem in the US .
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION
illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as
many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries.
Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and
marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the
total cost of mass deportation of illegal aliens' would
be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of
between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year
period.
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in
remittances back to their countries of origin.
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One
Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The
United States ..' http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
Total cost is a whooping ... $338.3 BILLION A YEAR!!!
And Gordoboy you really think the utilization of illegal workers really outweighs the cost of them being here illegally? According to the above information I don't think so.
Beach Fanatic
Total cost is a whooping ... $338.3 BILLION A YEAR!!!
And Gordoboy you really think the utilization of illegal workers really outweighs the cost of them being here illegally? According to the above information I don't think so.
I think the costs are just shifted. The rich jut get to pay more taxes. I am using the democrat defiinition of rich here.
Beach Fanatic
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare toYou double dipped a time or two there #1 and #8, at least in your
illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food
assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free
school lunches for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for
illegal aliens.. http:/ /www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and
secondary schooleducation for children here illegally and
they cannot speak a word of English!
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for
the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as
anchor babies. http://transcripts..cnn.com/
TR ANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate
illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7. 30% percent of a ll Fed eral Prison inmates are
illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt..01.html
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens
for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American
wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime
rate that's two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal
aliens.. In particular, th eir ch ildren, are going to
make a huge additional crime problem in the US .
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION
illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as
many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries.
Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and
marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.
Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National Policy Institute, 'estimated that the
total cost of mass deportation of illegal aliens' would
be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of
between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year
period.
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in
remittances back to their countries of origin.
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14. 'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One
Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The
United States ..' http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
Total cost is a whooping ... $338.3 BILLION A YEAR!!!
And Gordoboy you really think the utilization of illegal workers really outweighs the cost of them being here illegally? According to the above information I don't think so.
synopsis. Accepting that #9 is true then we can toss it out because the money was either saved by the consumer or kept by the "fat cats" not actually costing the economy anything. If it were the consumer then he got more bang for the buck if it was the "fat cat" then the money was invested or spent to the benefit of other enterprise. Drugs have always been a problem in the U.S to blame it on people crossing the border is ridiculous- blame it on the buyer. As #9 is the 2/3rds of your argument money wise, I would say yes the benefits of an adeqaute labor supply covers the remaining $100 to $130 billion in your scenario (which I am not ceding is the whole story or reality). People commit crimes, people are incarcerated. You want to stop paying for education yet I would contend that lack of education is what fosters crime. Address the one and you fix the other.
Beach Fanatic
*self deleting some of this as I realized it is not helpful or constructive to reasonable debate*
Something is wrong with the cnn links.
Something is wrong with the cnn links.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
I think the costs are just shifted. The rich jut get to pay more taxes. I am using the democrat defiinition of rich here.Yes.
Beach Fanatic
Elgodoboy, I will give you this. You are great at spinning, even better than 6th Gen. The sources are cited. Whether you accept them or not is up to you.
Beach Fanatic
Elgodoboy, I will give you this. You are great at spinning, even better than 6th Gen. The sources are cited. Whether you accept them or not is up to you.It isn't for amateurs that's for sure. I accept your compliment and thank you
. I don't expect to change anyone's mind, I would like to simply get some folks to consider more than what we are spoon fed.Beach Fanatic
Elgordoboy, accepted, but remember "spoon fed" makes babies grow.
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