Illegal Immigration

...and if the companies and corporations hiring the undocumented workers were fined and stopped; then, the number of people coming here through illegal means would certainly be affected.

These individuals are the ones that anger me the most, they are benefiting from the situation much more than the illegals.

I mean no disrespect but all the generalizations and assumptions about the people who live on your block (where you've lived for 28 years) don't necessarily apply to everyone/everyplace nor do they support the idea that we have an illegal immigration problem. Just sayin.

Back in the 70's, Neil Young was an illegal alien.

I am having trouble finding good statistical info on this - very slanted sources who tend to lump illegal and legal immigrants together.

Estimated number of Illegal Immigrants (most recent) by state

Though I find it interesting that in addition to the obvious ones of Texas, California, and New York, Florida, and Illinois have more illegal immigrants than Arizona and have not had to resort to making their own laws about it.

I mean no disrespect but all the generalizations and assumptions about the people who live on your block (where you've lived for 28 years) don't necessarily apply to everyone/everyplace nor do they support the idea that we have an illegal immigration problem. Just sayin.

They are not generalizations nor or they assumptions, they are facts. I did not imply they applied to everyone but my point is it is very easy to set back and make comments about a situation you might not have experienced.

Experiences are very much a basis on what we form our opinions on. If one is attacked viciously by a dog there is no way from that point on, one is not going to be leary of dogs in general and more specifically that specific type of dog, it does not mean all dogs are vicious but it does change that perons's perspective of dogs.

I will be the first to state I think immigration laws need to be changed to assist honest hard working people that want to come to the US, work, contribute and be law abiding citizens without the long delays and hurdles they have to go through to become legal. But until those laws are changed, the law is what it is and being here illegaly undermines the structure of society that is supported by adherance to the law. We can't as a society pick and choose which laws we are going to observe just because we feel they are inconvenince.

We have already stretched the resources available to deal with the legal criminals; we certainly do not need to add illegals to that.

This is fact?

"The majority of Latino gang members here were in gangs in Mexico and have simply relocated. They have however recruited other illegals that were not criminals before coming here because right now the housing market which most worked in has declined and they need money. Actually in Memphis, drugs is not as much a problem with some of the illegals as stolen property, especially vehicles, unless they are in a gang. Also the gang leaders promise protection for newly arrived illegals and supply them with fake IDs, and Driver's licenses and even Social Security cards. It becomes very tempting for someone that is here illegaly with no friends or support system, no job and no credidentials to turn to these gangs as a type of family."

Or this one-

"And Yes there are always exceptions, I have met some that are here to try to work and get a better life. But many were criminals in Mexico and now are criminals here."

There are bad people of all hapes, sizes, etc but these are the exception. Not the other way around.

I grew up on the south side of Chicago- huge Latino population- many illegal. I lived in LA.

Now I live in paradise with very little diversity.

I don't dispute that there are crime problems, drugs, gangs, etc in poor areas nationwide. I dispute that we have an illegal immigration issues that warrants legislation like what we see in AZ.

And I dispute the "facts" being thrown around.

This is fact?

"The majority of Latino gang members here were in gangs in Mexico and have simply relocated. They have however recruited other illegals that were not criminals before coming here because right now the housing market which most worked in has declined and they need money. Actually in Memphis, drugs is not as much a problem with some of the illegals as stolen property, especially vehicles, unless they are in a gang. Also the gang leaders promise protection for newly arrived illegals and supply them with fake IDs, and Driver's licenses and even Social Security cards. It becomes very tempting for someone that is here illegaly with no friends or support system, no job and no credidentials to turn to these gangs as a type of family."

Or this one-

"And Yes there are always exceptions, I have met some that are here to try to work and get a better life. But many were criminals in Mexico and now are criminals here."

There are bad people of all hapes, sizes, etc but these are the exception. Not the other way around.

I grew up on the south side of Chicago- huge Latino population- many illegal. I lived in LA.

Now I live in paradise with very little diversity.

I don't dispute that there are crime problems, drugs, gangs, etc in poor areas nationwide. I dispute that we have an illegal immigration issues that warrants legislation like what we see in AZ.

And I dispute the "facts" being thrown around.

You can dispute them all you want, but my BIL is on the Memphis Gang squad and one of my legal Latino neighbors is too, my facts come straight from them dealing with a situation you know nothing about. One of my husband's best friends is a captain on the police department and I have a good friend who is a federal marshal and one that works for the ATF, one that is an FBI agent and many others involved with the situation on a daily basis.

Just as you know more about the effects of oil on your beaches, I know more about the effects illegal immigrants have made on my neighborhood.

I am not dispusting that there are illegal immigrants here that are law abiding except for the fact they are illegal, but that in itself makes them non law abiding citizens.

Change the laws if you wish but until they are changed they are breaking the laws.

And Scooter there are some other towns reacting in a similar fashion:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/04/26/92839/texas-town-vows-fight-to-keep.html

Geo, you are definitely right, not all illegal immigrants are violent criminals. But then not all oil rigs are dangerous to the local beaches either are they. Many operate for years without any problems. But are you willing to take that risk.

When I see factual evidence presented to my community that illegal immigrants have contributed greatly to a rise in crime, I am sorry that it bothers you for me to be concerned about that.

I on the other hand, even though I don't live in your paradise, am very concerned about the negative effects on the area by off shore drilling.

Actually the law enacted by Arizona mirrors the federal law. It just will be enforced on a state level now. The hysteria created around this is just a smoke screen. Illegal immigrants and their supporters are in a indefensible position. They know this and have had to resort to emotional and irrational appeals to guilt-ridden Americans about economic fallout, possible family dissolution, civil rights issues, etc. The courts will work this out eventually and I expect other states to follow suit in adopting similar laws. Because our politicians and the many special interest groups involved have done nothing on this issue for decades, we sit here today in this situation. One nobody likes, but one which can not be ignored.

Minnie, your brother in law is a credible authority on the makeup of Latino gangs in Memphis. You are a credible authority on the happenings of your block where'd you have lived 28 years. I make no claim to no anything about either of these nor do I claim to no anything about the effects of oil drilling on our beaches.

What I do know is that oil drilling isn't worth the risk compared to the reward (I have evidence to support this) and that I have yet to see anyone present anything that supports the premise that illegal immigration problems warrant what appears to be an unconstitutional law.

Here is what I don't understand about stuff like that - don't we already have many laws in effect that cover it?

If you are a law abiding (or smart) landlord, why would you be renting to those you know are illegal in the first place?

Memphis would be such a model city without all the illegals.

Are criminals/gangs there because illegal immigrants are there, or because of drugs?

I know that it is a growing problem, but I don't know the real causes of the problem. I do know that "illegals" get blamed for a lot of things they don't necessarily do.

I would certainly support stepping up enforcement, changes to immigration law, AND immediately and permanently deporting anyone convicted of a major/violent crime.

As far as occupancies, my grandparents raised a family of 9 in a house the size of many Sowal vacation home great rooms or garages, so much of it is perspective.

I know what you mean - my mother's Italian family - all immigrants - had 3 or more families in one farm house where they worked hard as farmers.

times were different then though, and laws didn't exist that dictated how many could live in what kind of house.

Geo - I absolutely do agree that illegal immigration is problematic. Immigration is a wonderful thing, but when we have an entire group consisting of many millions who are literally called "illegal" then we have a problem. the Illegals did not create the problem - we did. this country has welcomed them far and wide and put them to work. then the same Americans who benefit from "illegals" complain that they don't speak english or shouldn't have access to public schools or health care. come on people - these are PEOPLE. HUMAN BEINGS. CHILDREN. no matter where they live children deserve an education and people deserve to be treated for injury and sickness. who says English is the only acceptable language? America has had gang problems forever - illegals didn't start this - drugs and children slipping through the cracks due to people having babies who should never have babies - started this. we have many cultural/societal problems in America - illegals did not create any of these. we did.

Illegals... we are talking about PEOPLE. they deserve to be treated as such. but, yes the "illegal" needs to be taken out of the name of the group by finding a way to legalize workers and families already here contributing to our communities (there are so many wonderful "illegal" families throughout this country who have become as ingrained in the fabric of our communities as we are), and we need to find ways to truly patrol all borders and enforce (updated) immigration laws now and in future - and keep the immigation issue changing and progressing as necessary - immigration is wholly American and should be done fairly, consistently, compassionately, legally and seriously... immigration is a good thing.

illegal immigrants - its a really bad way to desribe a huge segment of people who live here. they are at your mercy as to whether they are entitled to the rights given to everyone else alive on American soil. many millions of illegals for many many years have worked hard and helped shape communities all over this country. they didn't create the problem. we did. make them legal and take that stupid label away. then make some laws that make sense for this century and that can be enforced.

how to do any of this? I have not a clue.

Here is what I don't understand about stuff like that - don't we already have many laws in effect that cover it?

If you are a law abiding (or smart) landlord, why would you be renting to those you know are illegal in the first place?

Exactly and believe me these people are the ones I am most angry at. Those that rent to someone that is illegal, those that employ them.

But our problem here and I can only speak about that which I have personally experienced, it might vary in other areas, is that the criminal element of illegals is assisting those here illegally by selling them fake IDs for profit.

So basically the common problem in all of this is greed for money. Some landlords and employees are willing to look the other way for the money, others are not aware the person is illegal because of fake documents.

IMO those renting to and employing illegals are the big issue - feel I am going out on a rather sturdy limb when I say they are not paying the right taxes, fees, unemployment etc. either.

And THAT is what is draining the coffers.

Given the current design of IDs with holograms etc. we are all in big trouble if the typical illegal can get one that passes scrutiny - so I think that is hooey.

Yes, federal statues already cover illegal immigrants and the procedures to detain and deport these individuals. The catch is the federal authority has chosen not to enforce such laws. Why? Too expensive, inhumane, too busy.... I don't know. Lack of leadership with workable, reasonable ideas I suspect. And you have to realize the numbers run into to many millions.

Tootsie, great post. I only wish I could have summed up exactly how I feel a you did. So- ditto.

IMO those renting to and employing illegals are the big issue - feel I am going out on a rather sturdy limb when I say they are not paying the right taxes, fees, unemployment etc. either.

And THAT is what is draining the coffers.

Given the current design of IDs with holograms etc. we are all in big trouble if the typical illegal can get one that passes scrutiny - so I think that is hooey.

Totally agree with the statements about renting and employing, the IDs, yes the average illegal does not have proper ID which is why they get paid in cash and run when involved in a minor fender bender and leave behind a very nice vehicle.

Those involved with the gangs can get very sophisticated IDs including those with holograms. For one thing here a locally a DVM employee was selling driver's licenses to local gang members.

It's no secret what I am trying to do. But in case you guessed wrong-
I am flirting with the idea that illegal immigration isn't that big a problem. I am challenging the universal notion that is. In the process I might discover that it really is a big problem.

So far, the only real problem I am hearing that illegal immigrants are causing is related to money- specifically tax dollars.

Seems to me it would make more sense to implement a policy that provides some sort of status to illegals that allows for them to work and pay taxes and that steers them in the right direction toward the long road to citizenship.

This would solve our illegal immigrant "problem" moreso than the solution in Arizona. And it would help pay for our children's future which the last two administrations have mortgaged.

Doesn't that already exist? There are procedures in place for people to apply for visas and come into the country legally.

That is once again an enforcement issue though - likewise the DMV branch by Scooterbro no longer has DL service available because an employee was using the laminater for fake IDs (for underage liquor though, not illegals). :roll:

When you have been personally affected by the crime of this situation it is very hard not be emotional about it, just as if someone had a small child attacked by free roaming dogs they would want all dogs leashed, good ones and bad ones and they would be opening a can of whoop ass on the owner.

Sadly though we have a situation here that due to the fact that illegals won't report crimes they are now the prey of other criminals. So as more illegals come, more also become victims of crimes.

I totally support immigration of anyone from any country, I don't support anything illegal.

I don't agree with all aspects of this website but their statistics are correct, I had them verified by my contacts in law enforcement including my friend that is with the FBI.

But at least in reading it some might see things a little differently simply because they were not aware of some of the problems or affected by them.

The Dark Side Of Illegal Immigration

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Gangs

Impacts Of Illegal Immigration: Crime

Impacts of Illegal Immigration: Crime Summary

"illegal immigrants - its a really bad way to desribe a huge segment of people who live here. they are at your mercy as to whether they are entitled to the rights given to everyone else alive on American soil."

Illegals Aliens are not entitled to any American rights. They had to sneak into our Country in the first place, knowlingly subverting our laws to better themselves, not our Country. Make no mistake about it illegals have taken jobs away from other Americans. The notion that Americans didn't want them is tainted. Americans want the job for the right wage. Illegals taking the jobs for less than minimum wage has prevented minimum wage laws from effectively working.

Shopper,

Here's the rub. I could present to you statistics and outcomes that show that a single payer healthcare system works in European countries. I could share with you statistics and data that prove a minimum drinking age is useless and that marijuana can be legalized and taxed (just to name a few) with positive outcomes under a European model.

..and I would show you their immigration policies, which would prove to you that european welfare states have closed borders and do not allow open immigration.

Here is what I don't understand about stuff like that - don't we already have many laws in effect that cover it?

If you are a law abiding (or smart) landlord, why would you be renting to those you know are illegal in the first place?

One big problems is identification, SS cards are easy to photo copy.

Really? Social Security cards are what they are using as proof of ID?

I find that hard to believe. I would assume they would want to see a Driver's License or other photo ID - that is what I have to provide whenever asked for ID by anyone.

I have provided my Social Security NUMBER many times, but that was just for paperwork and I didn't have my actual card (think Mama Scooterbug probably has it).

Banks, hospitals, employers all just photocopy my Driver's License for their files. I never have to do anything to verify my SS#.

Really? Social Security cards are what they are using as proof of ID?

I find that hard to believe. I would assume they would want to see a Driver's License or other photo ID - that is what I have to provide whenever asked for ID by anyone.

I have provided my Social Security NUMBER many times, but that was just for paperwork and I didn't have my actual card (think Mama Scooterbug probably has it).

Banks, hospitals, employers all just photocopy my Driver's License for their files. I never have to do anything to verify my SS#.

There's a robust black market for these types of documents within the community. Employers that hire them without documentation and pay them under the table are also an issue.