Is Santa Satan?

I'm just glad I'm not "DEEP THINKER" like the rest of you, because I can't wait to see my grandchildrens eyes on Christmas morning to see what Santa brought them.

Santa is certainly real in the eyes of a child! Nothing more fun than watching their little faces. I agree - have fun!!!!

G

Rebuttal to post on Jesus and Mythras - in order to be fair and balanced. ;-) So what is the truth here? That's what is fascinating about discussion. I am ALWAYS open to finding out more about a subject and will humbly admit if I had any facts wrong. So says I - I think I'll study this a tad more

*****
Mithraism and Christianity Mithras - SkepticWiki

There are many misconceptions about the relationship about Mithraism and Christianity. Some of these are misinterpretations of real facts, and others are simply utterly wrong. Here are some of the more common outright falsehoods:

• Mithras was born of a virgin. Mithras was born out of a rock, often called the petra genetrix. He is often portrayed as already wearing a Phrygian cap and holding a dagger in one hand and a torch in the other. See Manfred Clauss' work The Roman Cult of Mithras, pp. 62-71.
• Mithras was attended by shepherds at his birth. This appears to come from Mithras being attended by two torchbearers, but these are not shepherds. Again, see Clauss, p. 68-69.
• Mithras had twelve disciples. This appears to be derived from some iconography in the mithraea where the twelve symbols of the zodiac are arrayed around the scene of Mithras killing the bull. The connection between twelve disciples and twelve signs of the zodiac is made in the book The Jesus Mysteries and by Acharya S (D.Murdock)[1].
• Mithras died and was resurrected. This appears to be derived from a brief mention by Tertullian, a second-century Christian apologist, who writes in his Prescription Against Heretics, chapter 40, that "if my memory still serves me, Mithra there, (in the kingdom of Satan, ) sets his marks on the foreheads of his soldiers; celebrates also the oblation of bread, and introduces an image of a resurrection, and before a sword wreathes a crown [2]." Tertullian's comment is unclear about what this "image of a resurrection" is supposed to mean, and it is not clear if indeed his memory does serve him. Claims that the mythology of Mithras actually included his death and resurrection are absent from work by Mithraic scholars such as Franz Cumont and Manfred Clauss, nor is it in the Proceedings of the First International Congress of Mithraic Studies, and there is no evidence from the iconography of the mithraea that he even died. There is discussion in Cumont and the Proceedings of the First International Congress of Mithraic Studies of Mithraists sharing with the Zoroastrians a belief in the resurrection of the dead in the final judgment of the world, but not discussion of Mithras himself being resurrected. (It is quite possible that during the Babylonian captivity of the Jews, "Zoroastrian thought from Persia was a contributing factor" to the idea of resurrection in Judaism [3], so if Mithraism and Christianity did share a belief in the resurrection, it is most likely by common ancestry, with Christianity getting this belief from Judaism.)

Associations between Mithraism and Christianity are also often made by misleading language. For example, in the chapter "Religious Illiteracy" in The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You To Read, William Edelen writes that "The Christian 'Mass' was, and is, basically the old sacrament of the Mithraic 'taurobolia' (a symbol of divine sacrifice and of the saving effect of blood)." However, this parallel between the Mithraic taurobolium and Christian communion is based on hiding details and misleading use of ambiguous language. A taurobolium is a sacrifice of a bull, often involving the blood from the bull dripping over and covering the one being consecrated. This is probably an acting out of the tauroctony, the myth where Mithra kills a bull, and out of the bull comes grain and other agrarian goods. The language the chapter "Religious Illiteracy" uses to describe this parallel is highly obfuscatory. That the taurobolium is an animal sacrifice is left out completely. Its description as a "divine sacrifice" is further misleading, suggesting the Christian claim that God himself was killed as a sacrifice, when really the tauroctony was a divine sacrifice in the sense that a divinity (Mithras) kills something else (a bull).
[edit] References

• Clauss, Manfred. The Roman Cult of Mithras: The God and his Mysteries. tr. Richard Gordon. New York: Routledge, 2001.
• Resurrection: A Symbol of Hope by Lloyd Geering. See Chapter 7, "Resurrection as the Hope for the End-Time".
• What Mithraism Isn't, a web page written by neo-Pagan Ceisiwr Serith.
• Mithraism, another web page and essay on ancient Rome by Alison Griffith.

This article is a stub. You can help by adding to it.
*******

So what is the truth here? Is the scholar I listened to years ago full of baloney? Was he wrong? Is the author of this article on SkepticWiki correct or is he trying to find a way to get around the connection?

Too much for my brain this morning. but I still find it fascinating and most interesting.

Now, once again, back to Santa and Satan.

G

I didn't know there was a skeptic Wiki. That is awesome. SoWal needs a skeptic forum. To get back on topic, Satan is such a nimrod.

Fact 1 - my head hurts too bad to read this entire thread.

Fact 2 - we discussed this ad nauseum last year, after I pointed out that any Christmas play that includes Santa should include the birth of Christ as well. Most children of other faiths don't do Santa anyway; they have their own holidays. Not wishing to go back there again.

But Santa as Satan? Goodness no. I don't think even the most fundamentalist Christian churches believe that. I know that some discourage Santa, but I've never heard that Santa was Satanic, or meant to be.

As Christians, we believe that the biggest gift of all was one we get to share - God's gift to us, his son, Jesus Christ. Today, we still celebrate love, peace, joy to the world, and giving to others (and receiving ). That is where Santa comes in. Not necessarily a jolly man with flying reindeer, but the feeling you get when you bring a smile to someone else's face.

i find it interesting all the walking on water, healing, and resurrecting went on 2 thousand years ago, but lately, with billions of people on this earth, that type of activity has died down a bit.

i find it interesting all the walking on water, healing, and resurrecting went on 2 thousand years ago, but lately, with billions of people on this earth, that type of activity has died down a bit.

I find it interesting that this is a South Walton County message board but some around here deliberately try to engage folks with traditional Walton County / Florida Panhandle values into having to defend them.

As to your point, a quick scan of Revelations might provide some insight. While I believe it, I don't expect you to.

Not necessarily a jolly man with flying reindeer, but the feeling you get when you bring a smile to someone else's face.

I totally agree with that feeling

The lonnnnnnnnnnng posts in the thread were not meant to cause a headache or to rehash old threads, but to open discussion to those who care to do so. The Santa/Satan thing is a troll obviously because the owner of this thread has failed to even state his/her opinion. But to start a bashing of Christian belief is not productive and is an insult to many on this forum - so I hope that this thread can just slide down the chimney unless actual discussion is possible. BUT LOL Santa/Satan what's there to discuss :roll::roll:

G

i find it interesting all the walking on water, healing, and resurrecting went on 2 thousand years ago, but lately, with billions of people on this earth, that type of activity has died down a bit.

Higher population means too many naysayers to either kill off or threaten with torture. In the present day extraordinary claims tend to address less tangible and less falsifiable items such as astrology, feng shui, alternative medicine, alien visitations/abductions, conspiracy theories, near death experiences, and so on.

The thread started as "is santa satan?" - we stayed remarkably focused considering and I didn't note any religious insults, just some discussion....................rather amazing considering the level of rude behavior and "debate" we've been dealing with lately.

The reason I know about the connections between Christianity and other religions like Mithrias is from touring the early Christian burial sites and the catacombs under the VATICAN w/ priests and through discussion with religious scholars - I find it interesting, not an attack on a religion.

I find it interesting that this is a South Walton County message board but some around here deliberately try to engage folks with traditional Walton County / Florida Panhandle values into having to defend them.

As to your point, a quick scan of Revelations might provide some insight. While I believe it, I don't expect you to.

I find it interesting that you think people with your values have some sort of seniority on this board.

And now it has gone

Totally unnecessary to be rude.

Is there something wrong with starting a thread with a provacative title? Was I attacking anyone or santa or satan or religion? - no. This is an old topic that goes back hundreds of years that everyone talks about every year and I find it interesting. Maybe people's responses are more interesting than the topic itself.

What does santa have to do with christians anywho? Satan - maybe.

Personally I think santa on one hand is lovely and all the spirit of giving etc., but it really runs counter to Jesus doesn't it? Isn't the christmas spirit really about love? on the other hand, Santa has morphed into all about the getting and greed. And why start out a kid's life lying to them? Fictional characters and myths are great but don't lie as long and hard as you can to fool kids. We'll never progress as a species until we stop treating myths like Santa or Jesus as literally real and brainwash kids. It builds a foundation for our society based on deception and ultimate disappointment.

Black Friday? What the heck is that about? People are getting trampled and killed for a cheap piece of electronics. Sounds like the work of satan to me.

I am not usually this direct. I need a snack.

Well, I don't believe in Satan, The Easter Bunny, Unicorns, or Mermaids... Maybe they have an inherent value to some people, but I just really wish these imaginary figures would all just go away permanently.

I find it interesting that this is a South Walton County message board but some around here deliberately try to engage folks with traditional Walton County / Florida Panhandle values into having to defend them.

As to your point, a quick scan of Revelations might provide some insight. While I believe it, I don't expect you to.

i believe it's not worth getting jacked up over. traditional panhandle values were the folks with the bows and arrows. they worshiped nature, and were slaughtered by christians.

Santa Claus is real - and will still be filling my stocking this Christmas though I can count my age in decades. The opinions and teachings of Jesus (the real ones, not the self promoting hate for profit practiced and espoused by some) do not conflict with Santa spreading joy and giving selflessly to others.

The "gimme, gimme, gimme more, more, more" Christmas pushed by the toy/big box industry is not my reality and neither Jesus, Mithrias, nor Santa are the ones at fault for promoting it. (Though Satan may be heavily involved as IMO he is strongly tied to Wal-mart, Wall Street, et. al.).

Do not confuse myth and tradition bringing comfort and joy with lies.

I find it interesting that this is a South Walton County message board but some around here deliberately try to engage folks with traditional Walton County / Florida Panhandle values into having to defend them.

As to your point, a quick scan of Revelations might provide some insight. While I believe it, I don't expect you to.

I think it is fine to "engage" folks, if you are trying to engage in a debate, then you are seeking the Truth. I happen to believe the belief in any "apocolypse" that is filled with violent and horrific is the self fulfilling prophesy, or relevation, of, I feel, the unenlightened few.

I believe that there can also be an "apocolypse" of thought or consciousness, change that doesn't have to be so morbid or violent, change that actually has a positive outcome. There a different ways to look at it.

If you engage, then you are making an attempt at understanding. Is that such a bad thing? I think South Walton, and Sowal, is at a point where it can be engaged in debate.

Why not tell us what your specific insights about Revelations are? ...Revelation is, after all, "a revealing."

Is there something wrong with starting a thread with a provacative title? Was I attacking anyone or santa or satan or religion? - no. This is an old topic that goes back hundreds of years that everyone talks about every year and I find it interesting. Maybe people's responses are more interesting than the topic itself.

What does santa have to do with christians anywho? Satan - maybe.

Personally I think santa on one hand is lovely and all the spirit of giving etc., but it really runs counter to Jesus doesn't it? Isn't the christmas spirit really about love? on the other hand, Santa has morphed into all about the getting and greed. And why start out a kid's life lying to them? Fictional characters and myths are great but don't lie as long and hard as you can to fool kids. We'll never progress as a species until we stop treating myths like Santa or Jesus as literally real and brainwash kids. It builds a foundation for our society based on deception and ultimate disappointment.

Black Friday? What the heck is that about? People are getting trampled and killed for a cheap piece of electronics. Sounds like the work of satan to me.

I am not usually this direct. I need a snack.

I'm starting to wonder if maybe I live in Satan Rosa Beach.

Is there something wrong with starting a thread with a provacative title? Was I attacking anyone or santa or satan or religion? - no. This is an old topic that goes back hundreds of years that everyone talks about every year and I find it interesting. Maybe people's responses are more interesting than the topic itself.

What does santa have to do with christians anywho? Satan - maybe.

Personally I think santa on one hand is lovely and all the spirit of giving etc., but it really runs counter to Jesus doesn't it? Isn't the christmas spirit really about love? on the other hand, Santa has morphed into all about the getting and greed. And why start out a kid's life lying to them? Fictional characters and myths are great but don't lie as long and hard as you can to fool kids. We'll never progress as a species until we stop treating myths like Santa or Jesus as literally real and brainwash kids. It builds a foundation for our society based on deception and ultimate disappointment.

Black Friday? What the heck is that about? People are getting trampled and killed for a cheap piece of electronics. Sounds like the work of satan to me.

I am not usually this direct. I need a snack.

You made a lot of really interesting thought provoking points. Next time don't wait so long on your own thread!

G

The thread started as "is santa satan?" - we stayed remarkably focused considering and I didn't note any religious insults, just some discussion....................rather amazing considering the level of rude behavior and "debate" we've been dealing with lately.

The reason I know about the connections between Christianity and other religions like Mithra is from touring the early Christian burial sites and the catacombs under the VATICAN w/ priests and through discussion with religious scholars - I find it interesting, not an attack on a religion.

You never insulted anyone at all. That's so funny how you heard about Mithras - if you see my post, I heard about the whole thing from a Catholic scholar as well.

G

PS I think the thread started to take a turn, not your post, and I was hoping it would not. I just don't think it helps us understand each other when that happens.

Santa Claus is real - and will still be filling my stocking this Christmas though I can count my age in decades. The opinions and teachings of Jesus (the real ones, not the self promoting hate for profit practiced and espoused by some) do not conflict with Santa spreading joy and giving selflessly to others.

The "gimme, gimme, gimme more, more, more" Christmas pushed by the toy/big box industry is not my reality and neither Jesus, Mithrias, nor Santa are the ones at fault for promoting it. (Though Satan may be heavily involved as IMO he is strongly tied to Wal-mart, Wall Street, et. al.).

Do not confuse myth and tradition bringing comfort and joy with lies.

Are you sure Jesus is all he is cracked up to be? I don't mean the ideals of Jesus. Check out Julia Sweeney's movie of her play: "Letting Go Of God". As far as the many good qualities attributed to him, there is an entire sect who believes he spent many years in India ( I don't remember how many years he was unaccounted for in the middle east), he then returned full of Buddhist and Hindu ideas of peace, love, and tolerance. Did he become "enlightened" there and gain the ability to "walk on water" and "heal people"as many Indian mystics can do? Interesting to think about since his early years he was normal and confused like the rest of us.

Coffee break...we interrupt this program...

Lucifer sam you had some funnies in this thread
Gidget I like your new avatar and you seem like a very nice person
Steppin outside for a smoke
Nice chattin with you folks
Me and Santa have things to discuss like where is my white mercedes with the tan leather interior
Happy Holidays

We'll never progress as a species until we stop treating myths like Santa or Jesus as literally real and brainwash kids. It builds a foundation for our society based on deception and ultimate disappointment.

Jesus was a myth? I think most worldly scholars and historians would disagree.

Is there something wrong with starting a thread with a provacative title?

To do so without adding your own thoughts and or opinions, is in violation of one of only a handful of rules of this message board. If you want to start a controversial thread, you should at a minimum state your opinion in that original post.

Jesus was a myth? I think most worldly scholars and historians would disagree.

Maybe there was a man named Jesus, but do you really think he could walk on water? Maybe he could do some wild stuff. But a lot of real people are mytholigized over the years. Heck, look at Tim Tebow they already started on him.

God spoke the earth into being

so it wouldn't be a hard thing for his son to walk on water - its in his genes
You have to check out God for yourself - don't listen to other people
Search and see what you will find
If your intentions are for real you'll find what you're lookin for
I can't even surf on the water, but I like to watch surfing clips of dungeoness, north shore, places that have huge waves in the middle of the ocean, etc.
Maybe I'll find some and post them...later
I'm not getting back to this thread, I'm still on coffee break
I have a pretty cool wave on my profile page - it gives me a 5 second buzz everytime I look at it