Legalizing seawalls

[Andy A]

Your definition of "temporary" is subject to interpretation, Murray. Our wall would never have been built if we had not had, at least, the passive concurrence of all concerned, That includes FDEP, the county and all property owners. You are right about one thing. We certainly didn't spend the amount of money on a wall we thought might be torn out the next year. BTW, we are still looking for approval regarding the structure and its been over 5 years. As you can probably tell, I am totally pissed over the whole situation which is a cluster eff and it really shouldn't be. But then its the government. What else can you expect.

 

[Dave Rauschkolb]

I'll be calling Her

I'll be calling her. We need to basically create enough information from the coastal states that have already outlawed them. This is a huge issue. Our beaches will be lost if the coastline is armored. A perfect example is on Holiday Isle at Jetty East. There is no beach just water slapping against the metal seawall.

Thanks, Dave. Lot of good info here. But regardless of how you feel about seawalls, seems like anyone interested in good government ought to be really upset about Coley trying an end run against an established procedure. The DEP has been putting the seawalls through an application procedure based on Florida statute and making decisions on which ones stay on a case by case basis. For a legislator to come in now with a bill that essentially guts the process just stinks, imho. If you agree, let Coley know.

 

[Em]

Perhaps I misunderstood what the DEP was asking of people. The following information is taken directly from the DEP's website. (link to DEP source page)

What can private property owners do?
The Emergency Final Order authorizes local governments to issue permits for activities seaward of the Coastal Construction Control Line to private and public property owners to temporarily secure structures, remove safety hazards and prevent further damage or collapse of foundations, and repair damaged structures.
Property owners should contact the building department of their local government to obtain permits. Local governments can provide the DEP with a statement of intent to issue permits by calling (850) 488-7708 or faxing (850) 488-5257.
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Can I build a new seawall?
Property owners and local governments may not construct structures or armoring that did not exist before the emergency without the necessary permits, including new seawalls. A DEP Administrative permit is needed for new, reconstructed or repaired bulkheads, seawalls, revetments or other rigid coastal armoring. (I don't recall any of the homes which were threatened having existing seawalls, so in those cases, it sounds like the DEP was requiring permits which in many cases, have yet to be issued.)



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Is armoring allowed under emergency conditions?
Under emergency conditions, local governments may authorize temporary armoring to immediately protect public and private infrastructure like homes, utilities and roads if those structures are threatened. In order to consider the armoring permanent, the property owner must submit a complete CCCL permit application to the Department within 60 days of installing the armoring. Otherwise, the property owner must remove the temporary armoring structure.(there were several cases where seawalls were erected to "reclaim the land" rather than to armor threatened structures.)

I sat through several meetings with the public and the County to hear what was being required. Many people were emotionally heated. The one thing that didn't make sense to me was why people were re-actively spending so much money on something that sounded like it would be required to be removed in a short time, which would cost even more money. Oh, to rewind 50 years and not build on the dune systems -- that would solve a lot of issues.

 

[Andy A]

Murray, do you really believe that over 400 people are totally stupid? What people were told they could do in 2005 and what they are being told they can do today are two entirely different situations. We can't rewind 50 years and, yes, it would solve a lot of issues if we could.

 

[scooterbug44]

At the time there was a lot of "better to ask forgiveness than permission" going on.

And many people noted that the issue was going to hit the fan at a later date because of how it was being improperly and sketchily done.

 

[Andy A]

At the time there was a lot of "better to ask forgiveness than permission" going on.

And many people noted that the issue was going to hit the fan at a later date because of how it was being improperly and sketchily done.

Partly right and partly wrong. There were many who ask what they could do and were misinformed or misled on every level. There were some who didn't ask or went on the "forgiveness" assumption.
Now, no one wants to really address the issue sensibly, IMO. There has never been this type of armoring constructed in the U.S. or elsewhere that I am aware of. It is strictly for structure protection, not even close to the water and buried under tons of sand. Where is the erosion factor? I am not a marine scientist but common sense seems to say where the water isn't lapping the armoring, and the armoring can't even be seen, little damage is occurring, but of course I could be wrong.

 

[scooterbug44]

I believe part of the problem is that (even IF properly done and uncompromised) armoring amplifies the effect of the water on other properties.

The seawalls and geotubes I examined as they were constructed will stand against erosion from the small storms, but not the big ones.

IMO, once again the issue is building things where one really shouldn't be building them. Ma Nature will win every time.

 

[Andy A]

I believe part of the problem is that (even IF properly done and uncompromised) armoring amplifies the effect of the water on other properties.

The seawalls and geotubes I examined as they were constructed will stand against erosion from the small storms, but not the big ones.

IMO, once again the issue is building things where one really shouldn't be building them. Ma Nature will win every time.

Yes, Ma Nature will win every time. And with this type of attitude, man would never have gone to the moon. In this case, it may not be a battle with Mother Nature but that doesn't enter one's head does it? I've now gotten as ridiculous as possible so its my last post on the subject.

 

[John R]

...common sense? seems to say where the water isn't lapping the armoring, and the armoring can't even be seen, little damage is occurring...

Today. This summer? Next?

 

[Em]

Murray, do you really believe that over 400 people are totally stupid? What people were told they could do in 2005 and what they are being told they can do today are two entirely different situations. We can't rewind 50 years and, yes, it would solve a lot of issues if we could.

Andy, rather than thinking that 400+ people were stupid, I tend to lean toward the thought that the County leaders at the time didn't know how to handle the situation. They had no experience of such things in the past and didn't have any leadership, so they winged it. The individuals who wanted to protect their property acted in their own best interest and hoped for the best. Some truly attempted to follow the rules while others looked to their neighbors who were setting examples (following the masses). At the time, there didn't seem to be much time for research to see the potential damage of building seawalls. Rather, people put more emphasis on not losing their homes and upland property. (IMO, that doesn't make someone stupid.) If you remember, we had erosion from storms in 2004 and 2005, and even more damage was predicted in 2006, so people were operating in panic mode.

I did attend all of the county meetings about armaments and beach sand, and from what I could tell, there were many people erecting seawalls which wouldn't be allowed to stay according to the DEP. That has not changed, and may be the reason why many seawalls still don't have the permits. It made no sense to me that someone would spend that much money on something that at the time was only temporary at best. I watched the walls being built and asked myself, how much is it going to cost them to have the walls removed when their temporary walls have to come down? Also, what contractor is going to risk damaging a home by trying to pulll those deep seawalls out of the earth? Pulling them out will surely make the homes unstabile.

I don't see how the rules have changed since then. What the DEP was requiring seemed to be ignored by people erecting seawalls. It certainly didn't help that many people were listening to a county commissioner who was building the seawalls, and may not have fully understood the requirements.