Let's sum up the opposition to health care reform

I guess the race/gender wasn't relevant in the violence against the peaceful protest of the blacks in the 50's and 60's.

I guess the race/gender wasn't relevant in the assassination of 4 presidents and the attempt on 11 others.

I guess the race/gender wasn't relevant in the bombing of the Capitol and Pentagon in the 70's

I guess the race/gender wasn't relevant in the Oklahoma City Bombing killing 168 in 1995

I guess the race/gender wasn't relevant in the IRS building attack killing 1 in 2010

I guess the race/gender wasn't relevant this past weekend when crowds called Gay and Black Democrat representatives slanderous, threatening names while being cheered on by Republican representatives from balconies.

Funny thing about all of these is that they all involved white males.....but I guess race/gender isn't relevant

Hitler thought he was doing the right thing. You know what they say about good intentions.

Poll or vote I don't think it matters to some of you. If the majority of people voted against this bill you would still advocate congress to pass it. Right?

The fat angry old men will set things straight.

presidents are elected without a majority vote, emancipation occurred without a majority vote, you are free to believe fox news without a majority vote

Hitler thought he was doing the right thing. You know what they say about good intentions.

Poll or vote I don't think it matters to some of you. If the majority of people voted against this bill you would still advocate congress to pass it. Right?

The fat angry old men will set things straight.

You are pathetic to even bring up Hitler as a "hint" of comparison to doing the right thing.....

-100 for idiotic content.....Andy....

Let me guess. You are a fat white male?

Is that all you can muster? Name calling and personal attacks?

The right thing is a state of mind not fact, hence the comparison.

I grew up in Manilla, Philippines and came to the US in the 80's to escape the New Peoples Army and Marcos. My Dad was murdered when I was nine so i had to be the father figure. It's fun staying up all night in a Nipa hut barn with a rifle guarding your baby farm animals from thieving neighbors. No one gave me anything. I put myself through school, graduated and started my own successful company. I never splurged on anything until I had everything paid off and a significant amount of savings in the bank.

What's your background? Draft dodger? Flag Burner? POTG? (Pants on the ground?)

You are pathetic to even bring up Hitler as a "hint" of comparison to doing the right thing.....

-100 for idiotic content.....Andy....

Let me guess. You are a fat white male?

Well, this certainly turned into a steaming pile. :roll:

Well, this certainly turned into a steaming pile. :roll:

Are you kidding? I wish this were a 3D movie and I was watching it in full 5.1 surround.

Is that all you can muster? Name calling and personal attacks?

The right thing is a state of mind not fact, hence the comparison.

I grew up in Manilla, Philippines and came to the US in the 80's to escape the New Peoples Army and Marcos. My Dad was murdered when I was nine so i had to be the father figure. It's fun staying up all night in a Nipa hut barn with a rifle guarding your baby farm animals from thieving neighbors. No one gave me anything. I put myself through school, graduated and started my own successful company. I never splurged on anything until I had everything paid off and a significant amount of savings in the bank.

What's your background? Draft dodger? Flag Burner? POTG? (Pants on the ground?)

Somehow when you compare Obama to Hitler the word projection comes to mind.

:funn:

actually I have gotten a good laugh here. and I totally appreciate a few of you and how you can enjoy and appreciate the discussion with friends holding opposing views. although most of the discussion is rather disrespectful, I see a few who communicate on a different (more respectful, and funnier) kind of level. Thanks! It is inspiring.

What is the relevance of the race of people in a crowd? I've heard this batted around by the left, never understood the signifigance. Generally I find it rather offensive.

You were saying that it wasn't just old fat white people who were against health care. This is a photo of a rally against health care. Notice the absence of color from the faces.

I wanted it, I am an American, I work and have for years voted Republican. I have been disappointed and elated by what our Representatives in the Executive Branch and Legislative Branch have done in the past and will be in the future. Obviously, you don't like the Reform, I respect that, but if some of the 212 legislators who voted against this bill had stepped forward with their idea maybe a better Healthcare Bill would have been on the table.

Great response. I too have been basically Republican for years, mostly on tax grounds... I support the current reform, socialization of healthcare - i think it's an englightened approach actually. Basically America is becoming European - embrace it. Take a vacation, a longer one. Our companies are not going to be leaders as much as they've been in the past.

Too many Americans slaving away (ok, Facebooking, ESPN.com, etc most of the day) at desks still, pretending to work, for corporations, and making fun of Europeans taking 6 weeks in the summer for vacation, and working 5 hour days the rest of the year.

Embrace Socialism... capitalism has gone too far, and rewarded a bunch of assholes who take no risks afterall.

You were saying that it wasn't just old fat white people who were against health care. This is a photo of a rally against health care. Notice the absence of color from the faces.

Except when they're angry, then they turn lobster red.

Except when they're angry, then they turn lobster red.

Mostly in the neck region.

Well, this certainly turned into a steaming pile. :roll:

Sometimes they (including me) ask for it. It is very true that the life experiences of many on this board appear to be limited in dealing with extreme circumstances, to say the least.

You were saying that it wasn't just old fat white people who were against health care. This is a photo of a rally against health care. Notice the absence of color from the faces.

Have you by any chance noted that the national chairman of the RNC, Michael Steele, is a very dark colored white? And not exactly fat, either.

Have you by any chance noted that the national chairman of the RNC, Michael Steele, is a very dark colored white? And not exactly fat, either.

Well, I was going to be nice and not point out the one African American who was against health care reform.

Well, I was going to be nice and not point out the one African American who was against health care reform.

See, that is where you, and all your very liberal compatriots are wrong. He's not against healthcare reform, he is against the way it was done, how much it will eventually cost and the fact those receiving good care will probably find they now receive mediocre care. As usual, you have your agenda, which IMO is totally flawed and I have mine. I agree with the one African American (I hate that phrase, what is the matter with American) although I am sure by doing a little searching I could easily find more. But then, I'll just have to accept that you're vast knowledge and experience prevails once again.

summing it up -

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un505mz35dY&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- 3 Reasons Health Care Reform Won't Cut The Deficit By One Thin Dime.[/ame]

See, that is where you, and all your very liberal compatriots are wrong. He's not against healthcare reform, he is against the way it was done, how much it will eventually cost and the fact those receiving good care will probably find they now receive mediocre care. As usual, you have your agenda, which IMO is totally flawed and I have mine. I agree with the one African American (I hate that phrase, what is the matter with American) although I am sure by doing a little searching I could easily find more. But then, I'll just have to accept that you're vast knowledge and experience prevails once again.

Again, he simply said no and offered up no viable alternative. His job is to get Republicans elected though and not actually make change so making it political was very much to his advantage.

summing it up -

YouTube- 3 Reasons Health Care Reform Won't Cut The Deficit By One Thin Dime.

I'll bet there's no slant from that site.

reason.tv - Videos > The Case Against Jamie Oliver

This article is on the money. Op-Ed Columnist - The Rage Is Not About Health Care - NYTimes.com I realize it's nyt and Frank Rich but it says what's on a lot of our minds. I stated earlier that I think the overly hostile reaction against reform is really a reaction against perceived cultural upheaval in this country. A few quotes:

How curious that a mob fond of likening President Obama to Hitler knows so little about history that it doesn?t recognize its own small-scale mimicry of Kristallnacht. The weapon of choice for vigilante violence at Congressional offices has been a brick hurled through a window. So far.

No less curious is how disproportionate this red-hot anger is to its proximate cause. The historic Obama-Pelosi health care victory is a big deal, all right, so much so it doesn?t need Joe Biden?s adjective to hype it. But the bill does not erect a huge New Deal-Great Society-style government program. In lieu of a public option, it delivers 32 million newly insured Americans to private insurers. As no less a conservative authority than The Wall Street Journal editorial page observed last week, the bill?s prototype is the health care legislation Mitt Romney signed into law in Massachusetts. It contains what used to be considered Republican ideas.


To find a prototype for the overheated reaction to the health care bill, you have to look a year before Medicare, to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Both laws passed by similar majorities in Congress; the Civil Rights Act received even more votes in the Senate (73) than Medicare (70). But it was only the civil rights bill that made some Americans run off the rails. That?s because it was the one that signaled an inexorable and immutable change in the very identity of America, not just its governance

But the explanation is plain: the health care bill is not the main source of this anger and never has been. It?s merely a handy excuse. The real source of the over-the-top rage of 2010 is the same kind of national existential reordering that roiled America in 1964.

Related, Lucifer, to that NYTs op-ed are new stats quoted by the SPLC in their study of right wing extremism. Scary stuff:

The new poll from Harris interactive finds that 40 percent of American adults think that Obama is a socialist; 25 percent believe that Obama was not born in the United States and is therefore not eligible to be president; 20 percent say Obama is doing many of the things that Hitler did; 14 percent say Obama "may be the Antichrist."

When Right-Wing Extremism Moves Mainstream : NPR

I think Rich reads too much into this. Listen, we have all these wonderful, hugely expensive entitlement systems today, and they are all in the red. Yet here we are, our federal fiscal house in complete disarray, and what are we doing, implementing more entitlement programs. Every person I've spoken to that's against this has the same concern, we keep making these promises and only half heartedly commit to paying for them. Obama's budget has the United States borrowing trillions over the next decade, yet, these idiots in Washington don't seem to care, they think that's ok. They say, don't worry, we'll pay for all this, well, then how come the budget says we're going to be in the red to the tune of 90% of GDP after ten years? Nothing is completely paid for right now. A lot of Americans are saying enough.. it's something that's been building for three decades.

If Obama was really committed to this, he'd do what needs to be done - he'd raise taxes to actually pay for this and every other unfunded entitlement democrats have created over the years. But even with the majorities in Congress, and a supposed progressive mandate, the powers that be don't have the nuts to admit they can't pay for all of this without breaking a lot of campaign promises. So they shuffle costs around, delay implementation, underestimate costs, while promising free this and free that and don't worry, we won't touch your Medicare or social security.

In the end, this program will cost more than they estimated, the tax revenue will not materialize or will be appealed, and things will get worse. As I've stated before, I think we're on an unsustainable path. Congress doesn't care, they all make millions, and they'll be out of office and sitting up on a hill before the proverbial stuff hits the fan.

30a, I would gladly concede that the bill is flawed, and I think most people would (what bill isn't?). Now compare your sane reaction to the demographic described by Rich. Do you see what I'm saying? There is something else going on. I believe there is a reaction to a cultural shift in this country that has nothing to do with this bill. You can't deny the cultural shift. Obama won Florida, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio, North Carolina, Virginia, Nevada, and Colorado. This shift frightens and angers a lot of people.

I think Rich reads too much into this. Listen, we have all these wonderful, hugely expensive entitlement systems today, and they are all in the red. Yet here we are, our federal fiscal house in complete disarray, and what are we doing, implementing more entitlement programs. Every person I've spoken to that's against this has the same concern, we keep making these promises and only half heartedly commit to paying for them. Obama's budget has the United States borrowing trillions over the next decade, yet, these idiots in Washington don't seem to care, they think that's ok. They say, don't worry, we'll pay for all this, well, then how come the budget says we're going to be in the red to the tune of 90% of GDP after ten years? Nothing is completely paid for right now. A lot of Americans are saying enough.. it's something that's been building for three decades.

If Obama was really committed to this, he'd do what needs to be done - he'd raise taxes to actually pay for this and every other unfunded entitlement democrats have created over the years. But even with the majorities in Congress, and a supposed progressive mandate, the powers that be don't have the nuts to admit they can't pay for all of this without breaking a lot of campaign promises. So they shuffle costs around, delay implementation, underestimate costs, while promising free this and free that and don't worry, we won't touch your Medicare or social security.

In the end, this program will cost more than they estimated, the tax revenue will not materialize or will be appealed, and things will get worse. As I've stated before, I think we're on an unsustainable path. Congress doesn't care, they all make millions, and they'll be out of office and sitting up on a hill before the proverbial stuff hits the fan.

It would be my sincere hope that ALL read the above and consider it sincerely. It is as good a summation of our present situation as I've seen lately and dead on mark. We have reached a point in this country where it really doesn't matter whether you're a Democrat or Republican regarding the fiscal situation facing us and our heirs.
To put it in personal perspective. I pay my bills. All of them. I would be not only be chastised if I didn't, I'd be ashamed. Why is it our leaders seem to not understand our government should be as responsible as most of us are personally? I don't care if you are a Republican, Democrat, Conservative or Liberal it is a ludicrous situation that cries for solution.

30a, I would gladly concede that the bill is flawed, and I think most people would (what bill isn't?). Now compare your sane reaction to the demographic described by Rich. Do you see what I'm saying? There is something else going on. I believe there is a reaction to a cultural shift in this country that has nothing to do with this bill. You can't deny the cultural shift. Obama won Florida, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio, North Carolina, Virginia, Nevada, and Colorado. This shift frightens and angers a lot of people.

Any democrat (Clinton for example) would have won those states. That was a reaction to Bush and the Iraq war, little else.

Demographics change slowly, this is the same base population that elected Reagan, the same that ushered in the republican revolution of the early 90's, and the same population that voted solidly republican in 2000, and 2004. If Rich wants to try and paint this over as some sort of racial issue in an effort to disparage the other party, whatever. Future elections will disprove his theory.