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McCain's Freedom Destroying Bill

Mango avatar
SoWal Insider
3,594 views
:angry: Big oil wanting to drill in our waters, government trying to take away supplements for big pharma. What is this Country coming to? :bang:

"McCain?s bill is called The Dietary Supplement Safety Act (DSSA). It would repeal key sections of the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA). DSHEA protects supplements if 1) they are food products that have been in the food supply and not chemically altered or 2) if they were sold as supplements prior to 1994, the year that DSHEA was passed. If a supplement fits one of these two descriptions, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) cannot arbitrarily ban it or reclassify it as a drug.

McCain?s bill would wipe out even the minimal protections contained in DSHEA. It would give the FDA full discretion and power to compile a discreet list of supplements allowed to remain on the market while banning all others. Everyone knows that the FDA is friendly to drug companies (which pay its bills and provide good revolving door jobs) and hostile to supplement companies. Under this bill, this same Agency could quite arbitrarily ban any supplement it wished or turn it over to drug companies to be developed as a drug and sold for multiples of its price as a supplement.

There are a lot of vested interests which are threatened by supplements. Drug companies do not like them because they represent a low cost, safer, and often more effective alternative to drugs. The FDA does not like them because supplements do not come through the FDA approval process and therefore do not support the FDA budget.

Why not simply require that supplements be brought through the FDA?s drug approval process? Wouldn?t that create a level playing field? That is probably the argument that Senator McCain has been sold. But it is a completely false argument. The FDA drug approval process costs as much as a billion dollars. It is not economically feasible to spend such vast sums on substances that are not protected by patent, and natural substances cannot legally be patented. This is the great ?Catch 22? of American medicine. The FDA, which is supposed to guard and promote our health, is hostile to the kind of natural medicine?based on diet, supplements, and exercise?that represents the real future of healthcare. The Agency has either been captured by drug interests or is trapped in a catastrophically expensive, toxic, and ineffective patented-drug model."


FULL ARTICLE HERE
THE BILL HERE

Replies

79
30ashopper avatar
SoWal Insider
#52
I'm wondering is it better to eat mushrooms from corn fed or grass fed cow turds?

In Amsterdam, they sell them in little sealed plastic containers, the contents of which are carfully regulated and taxes by the government. I'll take that solution over picking the best cow turd any day of the week! :lol:
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#53
The hot rumor when we were teens was that the FDA, DEA, FBI,
4-H or some other shadowy group added fungicide to commercial feed to prevent shroomage. The fear now is probably genetically modified corn transferring patented DNA into the shrooms, thus enabling shroom pickers to be prosecuted by the Monsanto mob for patent infringement or some such.:blink:

Any visuals would be the property of Monsanto.
Lynnie avatar
SoWal Insider
#54
In Amsterdam, they sell them in little sealed plastic containers, the contents of which are carfully regulated and taxes by the government. I'll take that solution over picking the best cow turd any day of the week! :lol:


A liesurely stroll through the pasture is a great way to spend an afternoon. I don't think some of the country farmers have bought into the 'shroom deterent fungicide.' However, there does seem to be a distinct mutation! :blink:

Amsterdam is rethinking their legalization as we speak. Pity.

Any visuals would be the property of Monsanto.

Yep, no kidding.
Gidget avatar
Beach Fanatic
#55
I agree with the second two, but not the first. Drug companies already sell legal forms of dope. I'd much prefer buying it from them, after their brand has approval of the FDA, vs. buying from "Big Bill" who promises it's straight from Humbolt county, and organically grown. ;-)


If pot was legalized, or at least decriminalized, in the U.S., seems like that would cut into Lexapro, Valium, Vicadin, Oxycotten, Advil, etc. Drug companies could stand to lose a lot of money. But you make a point - if big pharma got control - I can only imagine....THC pills, etc....:roll::roll:
Beach Fanatic
#56
I agree with the second two, but not the first. Drug companies already sell legal forms of dope. I'd much prefer buying it from them, after their brand has approval of the FDA, vs. buying from "Big Bill" who promises it's straight from Humbolt county, and organically grown. ;-)

I think there's at least one pretty extensive thread about herb and the legalization of it or not, and the many interests opposed to legalizing etc. Pretty interesting info there.
Beach Fanatic
#57
This is very scary stuff.
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#58
If pot was legalized, or at least decriminalized, in the U.S., seems like that would cut into Lexapro, Valium, Vicadin, Oxycotten, Advil, etc. Drug companies could stand to lose a lot of money. But you make a point - if big pharma got control - I can only imagine....THC pills, etc....:roll::roll:

THC pills already exist. It's called Marinol. I have read that some users find it indistinguishable from the smoked form. Others feel differently. For me the issue of pot legalization has always been less about it's medical value and more about cognitive liberty, which is another topic.
Gidget avatar
Beach Fanatic
#59

​
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#60

​

Well if you ever have severe heart problems, I guess you'll be harvesting your organically grown foxglove. I myself would prefer to put my life in the hands of corporations, scientists, and doctors and opt for a Digoxin prescription. I prefer my foxglove processed and measured with precision usng state of the art equipment produced by mega-corporations adhering to strict government standards.

Editors note:I have never used either Digoxin or foxglove and my heart is fine. Post is purely hypothetical and is intended solely for educational purposes :wave:

Edited

scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#61
I don't think I am fully understanding this thread - I don't have a problem with people taking supplements (which I do, some at the advice of medical professionals) or exploring other options for treatment besides pharmaceuticals.

But if people ARE taking these items INSTEAD of medicine, at the advice of someone with no medical training, or because of claimed benefits that are not verified or regulated I think it is potentially a big problem.

I worry that friends who take these products (especially the weight loss ones or cleanse ones) are harming themselves and get very frustrated when people think the advice of the freaking stock boy at Whole Foods trumps that of a physician.

Yes, pharmaceuticals are not the answer, but at least there is some regulation, testing, and they HAVE to tell you about side effects. Why should it be different for their substitutes?

Yes, the FDA needs a major shakeup and lobbyistectomy and cronyectomy. I would love to give big pharm a giant kick in the balls, but I also want people to be able to know and trust what they are putting into their bodies (including a change in the labeling laws of "organic, free-range" etc.).
Matt J avatar
SWGB
#62
I agree with scooter. There's a big difference between someone who has 8 years of medical training and a guy with dread locks in a health food store.

P.S. If anyone has dread locks over at FTHOI this was not directed at you.
Lynnie avatar
SoWal Insider
#63
lobbyistectomy and cronyectomy

Classic! :floor:
Beach Fanatic
#64
I don't think I am fully understanding this thread - I don't have a problem with people taking supplements (which I do, some at the advice of medical professionals) or exploring other options for treatment besides pharmaceuticals.

But if people ARE taking these items INSTEAD of medicine, at the advice of someone with no medical training, or because of claimed benefits that are not verified or regulated I think it is potentially a big problem.

I worry that friends who take these products (especially the weight loss ones or cleanse ones) are harming themselves and get very frustrated when people think the advice of the freaking stock boy at Whole Foods trumps that of a physician.

Yes, pharmaceuticals are not the answer, but at least there is some regulation, testing, and they HAVE to tell you about side effects. Why should it be different for their substitutes?

Yes, the FDA needs a major shakeup and lobbyistectomy and cronyectomy. I would love to give big pharm a giant kick in the balls, but I also want people to be able to know and trust what they are putting into their bodies (including a change in the labeling laws of "organic, free-range" etc.).

Good points. I guess my take is, I'd like to see the FDA fixed first, before we let them do a lousy job of regulating herbs and vitamins, and besides, a lot of herbs and such are already participating in the self-regulation of the USP standards.

I don't want to let these FDA folks (crooks? incompetents? a combination?) get hold of supplements until the whole agency, rules, etc. are revamped. In the meantime, folks who use supplements IMHO need to use some common sense and do their homework, and indeed, not put their health care decisions in the hands of the stock boy at the health food store! If they don't have any more sense than that, I'm not sure any laws or regulations can help them.

And while medical school does impart a great deal of knowledge to most graduates, there are certainly plenty of crummy docs who give out bad advice, miss diagnoses etc., and generally offer care that's about as good as the health food store stock boy. Med school generally teaches docs how to treat illness, not how to promote wellness, and certainly little or nothing about nutrition and natural therapies. IMHO that needs to change too, because I don't like having to recruit a whole team of health care pros to get what I feel is a balanced professional perspective --it's expensive and time consuming, but I do it because going strictly with mainstream allopathic docs and FDA approved therpies and meds has not worked for me, but when I combine them with natural approaches, that seems to work better.

What I'd really like to see is for the MD/pharma world and the complementary therapy/wellness world come together under one tent or one roof, quit bashing each other and start learning from each other for the greater good of their clients. Wouldn't it be great if MD's had acupuncturists, herbalists, etc. on staff and customers (that's what I consider myself, not a patient, I am a paying customer) would benefit from much broader knowledge and experience!
30A Skunkape avatar
Skunky
#65
Good points. I guess my take is, I'd like to see the FDA fixed first, before we let them do a lousy job of regulating herbs and vitamins, and besides, a lot of herbs and such are already participating in the self-regulation of the USP standards.

I don't want to let these FDA folks (crooks? incompetents? a combination?) get hold of supplements until the whole agency, rules, etc. are revamped. In the meantime, folks who use supplements IMHO need to use some common sense and do their homework, and indeed, not put their health care decisions in the hands of the stock boy at the health food store! If they don't have any more sense than that, I'm not sure any laws or regulations can help them.

And while medical school does impart a great deal of knowledge to most graduates, there are certainly plenty of crummy docs who give out bad advice, miss diagnoses etc., and generally offer care that's about as good as the health food store stock boy. Med school generally teaches docs how to treat illness, not how to promote wellness, and certainly little or nothing about nutrition and natural therapies. IMHO that needs to change too, because I don't like having to recruit a whole team of health care pros to get what I feel is a balanced professional perspective --it's expensive and time consuming, but I do it because going strictly with mainstream allopathic docs and FDA approved therpies and meds has not worked for me, but when I combine them with natural approaches, that seems to work better.

What I'd really like to see is for the MD/pharma world and the complementary therapy/wellness world come together under one tent or one roof, quit bashing each other and start learning from each other for the greater good of their clients. Wouldn't it be great if MD's had acupuncturists, herbalists, etc. on staff and customers (that's what I consider myself, not a patient, I am a paying customer) would benefit from much broader knowledge and experience!

That would be mom's job!:wave:
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#66
I don't think that is a fair characterization.

All my doctors/various health care providers have always advocated healthy lifestyle choices and preventative medicine - not smoking, eating fruits and vegetables and a balanced diet, getting enough sleep, limiting drinking, wearing seatbelts and bike helmets, frequent exercise (and not overdoing it), flossing, only taking medicine when necessary, washing hands, sitting up straight, using condoms, wearing shoes w/ arch support, not overdoi8ng the antibacterial items, you name it!

A few have also suggested dietary supplements like calcium or glucosamine-condroitin (which they said is not proven to work, but worth a try).
Beach Fanatic
#67
That would be mom's job!:wave:

Hey Skunk, I disagree completely, especially in this era when so many moms work fulltime outside the home, and often haven't had much nutritional info themselves (I don't think they've been offering Home Ec in public schools for a couple of generations now).

I was fortunate in that I was able to self-educate about nutrition and wellness in my baby-having and child-rearing years, since much of the time I was blessed not to need to work outside the home for $$ (God Bless Hub for making that possible!). I could not have done a proper job of teaching the boys nutrition, wellness and so on if I'd had even a part time job.

Y'all don't have kids yet, do you? I know in my pre-parenthood days it was impossible for me to grasp how much time and mental-emotional-spiritual energy parenting required of friends who'd started their families before we did. Once I had children of my own, I learned right quick how all-consuming a career it is, and I totally get it now, how moms who also work outside the home -- especially single moms -- do not have time or energy to make all-fresh-from-scratch meals!

Scooterbug, lucky you for having docs that promoted healthy lifestyles. Some of mine have too, but they often come to that from a very general perspective and are not at all well versed in specifics for various conditions, at least not by comparison to other healthcare pros I've been to who focus more on prevention and wellness with specific, targeted recommendations and even teaching classes from time to time.

If some MDs don't want to promote wellness and prevention through educating their clients, it should not be alarming to anyone that more and more of their clients will spend at least part of their healthcare dollars with practitioners who will focus on wellness, prevention, nutrition, etc. That trend is already well-established, based on info I've been seeing over the last decade or two.
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#68
Baloney - there are a ton of resources available and it's a matter of priorities.

Many parents work full time and still feed their children nutritious meals and teach them about nutrition. Maybe not psycho grow your own grain and grind it for home baked bread meals or Martha is jealous gourmet meals, but good decent food.

My parents both worked full-time and there was a home cooked meal on the table 99% of the time.

You can prep several days worth of nutritious dinners in the time it takes to watch an episode of American Idol and there are a wide variety of healthy meals that you can make in less than 15 minutes.

I am sure there are even multiple "apps" to help you shop and prepare them. :roll:

And I think it is unreasonable to expect your doctor to be an expert in every single aspect of your care including all alternate treatments - that is impossible and why they have specialties and specialists.

Edited

Beach Fanatic
#69
Sounds like I may have hit a nerve. I'm okay with agreeing to disagree! No harm no foul?
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#70
No major nerve! :wave: Sorry if if came off that way, I posted in a hurry and didn't think it was that radical. :blush:

Edited

Lynnie avatar
SoWal Insider
#71
No major nerve! :wave: Sorry if if came off that way, I posted in a hurry and didn't think it was that radical. :blush:

Psycho? That's radical!
Miss Critter avatar
Beach Fanatic
#72
"Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children; now I have six children and no theories." --John Wilmot, Earl of Rochester

I'm just sayin'. ;-)
Beach Fanatic
#73
"Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children; now I have six children and no theories." --John Wilmot, Earl of Rochester

I'm just sayin'. ;-)

Indeed. I used to have so many notions about what good parents could do and should do, and how I was going to do, and saw all kinds of things wrong with other parents' methods, ha! Now I say any parent who gets a kid to legal majority in more or less one piece and not in jail has done a great job!

There must be a special chocolate-covered place in heaven for single parents. I do not now how they do it, and am so very grateful I never had to find out if I was up to the job.
Beach Fanatic
#74
No major nerve! :wave: Sorry if if came off that way, I posted in a hurry and didn't think it was that radical. :blush:

Cool. Maybe it's just that I've always really hated baloney, teehee. (One of few foods I don't like; rutabagas and tongue are the two others that come to mind -- as my mother used to say, Susan eats just about anything that doesn't eat her first.)
30A Skunkape avatar
Skunky
#75
Hey Skunk, I disagree completely, especially in this era when so many moms work fulltime outside the home, and often haven't had much nutritional info themselves (I don't think they've been offering Home Ec in public schools for a couple of generations now).

I was fortunate in that I was able to self-educate about nutrition and wellness in my baby-having and child-rearing years, since much of the time I was blessed not to need to work outside the home for $$ (God Bless Hub for making that possible!). I could not have done a proper job of teaching the boys nutrition, wellness and so on if I'd had even a part time job.

Y'all don't have kids yet, do you? I know in my pre-parenthood days it was impossible for me to grasp how much time and mental-emotional-spiritual energy parenting required of friends who'd started their families before we did. Once I had children of my own, I learned right quick how all-consuming a career it is, and I totally get it now, how moms who also work outside the home -- especially single moms -- do not have time or energy to make all-fresh-from-scratch meals!

Scooterbug, lucky you for having docs that promoted healthy lifestyles. Some of mine have too, but they often come to that from a very general perspective and are not at all well versed in specifics for various conditions, at least not by comparison to other healthcare pros I've been to who focus more on prevention and wellness with specific, targeted recommendations and even teaching classes from time to time.

If some MDs don't want to promote wellness and prevention through educating their clients, it should not be alarming to anyone that more and more of their clients will spend at least part of their healthcare dollars with practitioners who will focus on wellness, prevention, nutrition, etc. That trend is already well-established, based on info I've been seeing over the last decade or two.

I know it isn't easy these days trying to feed kids correctly, but the sad fact is that by the time someone independently goes to a doctor's office their lifestyle and eating habits will probably be locked in. Most people have a basic understanding of what should and shouldn't go into their mouths;whether or not they adhere to their suspicion is a whole other matter. Believe me when I tell you most people do not want to be lectured to regarding their eating habits. Much more relevant to them is the list of maladies they want to discuss. Given the dual truths that an appointment is finite and customers want to be satisfied or they will go elsewhere, nutrition and lifestyle are often, but not always, placed on the back burner.
Miss Critter avatar
Beach Fanatic
#76
I would tend to agree with you, skunky, that the majority of patients want a pill to "undo" the damage that could be avoided by eating and behaving in less destructive ways. I'd guess this is a major frustration for conscientious docs.

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