No Surprise

I always said that the Gov't could raise it's own money by setting up a no-holds barred wrestling match between Country Leaders. I think Osama Bin Laden could take little w.

I always said that the Gov't could raise it's own money by setting up a no-holds barred wrestling match between Country Leaders. I think Osama Bin Laden could take little w.

Sadly, my money would be on OBL.

Don't play that argument on a group that did not manufacture b.s. to start an entirely avoidable war. I've screwed up, so you solve this mess with a better idea? That sounds like a 6 year old. GW should keep the buck in his own stinky back pocket on this mult-billion dollar lynching of Saddam and not try to pass it on to others.

Oh please. You are missing the point entirely. I'm no fan of Bush. But let's face it, all the dems do is *****, moan and finger-point. They criticize Bush's policy but NOT ONE of them has recommended a better policy than the one Buch recommended the other night. Rhetoric? Hardly. Fact? Absolutely.

Perhaps you have a better idea, smart guy. Let's hear it.

Oh please. You are missing the point entirely. I'm no fan of Bush. But let's face it, all the dems do is *****, moan and finger-point. They criticize Bush's policy but NOT ONE of them has recommended a better policy than the one Buch recommended the other night. Rhetoric? Hardly. Fact? Absolutely.

Perhaps you have a better idea, smart guy. Let's hear it.

Ooh, I've always wanted to do this but someone always beats me to it:

"Saying we need a political solution is as helpful as saying 'give peace a chance.' Peace requires more than pie-eyed verbiage. In the real world, peace has no chance until the people who want to give death squads another shot have been dispatched from the scene." Jonah Goldberg

That was beautiful, DD. Thanks for posting.

I don't know what to make of this...I hope it's sincere, but something tells me that Rove told him to rub some Vick's Vapo-rub in his eye.
View attachment 3502

It's running under the banner "Tears of a President" on Drudge. It was taken today at a Medal of Freedom ceremony for a soldier who died after throwing himself on a grenade to protect the rest of his men.

W should leave such techniques to the master

Let's pretend. Let's pretend that after 9/11 Bush ignored the "intelligence" info on Saddam's WMD and his(Saddam's) ties to terrorist (the intelligence didn't originate during Bush II but goes back to the Carter adminisration). Let's pretend that all the Demos who supported the Iraq invasion, instead, said we shouldn't go in...its a mistake(i.e. the Clintons, Kerry et al). So, we continue with UN resolutions of threats( BTW I firmly believe that alot of people think we invaded Iraq a few weeks after 9/11. If you recall the UN passed several resolutions post 9/11 which Saddam ignored.)

So, Bush ignores the intel and continues supporting the UN threats of military force (how many resolutions = action 18?...25?...50? I dunno) Let's pretend Saddam didn't move the WMD out of country which, guys if you don't think he had any you're delusional. He had used them on at least 10 occasions (Sandy Berger testimony to congress in 1989.) So, Saddam give a terrorist group, any terrorist group WMDs and they are used on a US military base, embassy or city. What would the cries from the Demos and others be then? "Bush didn't protect us!" "Bush ignored the intelligence reports!" (both US and foreign) "Impeach Bush!" Sound familiar?

No doubt the handling of the post invasion (i.e insurgents) has been bungled and should and I hope is being revamped. But to say that we never should have invaded Iraq sounds a bit hollow coming from the same people who supported it when having the same "intelligence" as the Bush administration (which was investigated and confirmed by 2 Congressional hearings). Hide sight is indeed 20/20 but it also seems to cause amnesia.

So,you are the the President. Your country has been attacked by an Islamic terroist group. A country who has been hostile to the US has (according to worldwide intelligence sources) WMDs which he has shown no qualms about using, even against his own people. You are in a war against the country(Afghanastan) that housed the terror group who attacked the US and the intel you have is that the other country(Iraq) has ties to terrorist groups. What would you do? Ignore the intelligence and continue the UN resolutions, now up to #17, and take your (and your country's) chances? Or act?

Now, I must lay down before my head explodes.

Oh please. You are missing the point entirely. I'm no fan of Bush. But let's face it, all the dems do is *****, moan and finger-point. They criticize Bush's policy but NOT ONE of them has recommended a better policy than the one Buch recommended the other night. Rhetoric? Hardly. Fact? Absolutely.

Perhaps you have a better idea, smart guy. Let's hear it.

Does Bush really want and need the Dems to solve his problem? Bush doesn't have a plan and HE put the country there. Granted the dems might not have a plan to save Bush and our country, but they didn't lie to put us there with no plan to exit. Bush and friends did just that. Yes other leaders have lied, but people are dying for this lie. He's the leader of our country. He broke it, he owns it. He was clever enough to fool a nation into going into Iraq, he needs to get us out. I can't fault the dems for not having a plan either, they didn't put us there. Let's send Jenna and Barbara to Iraq. Perhaps we'll get our young men and women home guicker.

I beg you...please don't get silly.

I beg you...please don't get silly.

Point taken Miss Kitty I will try to behave. We are after all much more civilized than Rosie and Donald. Please everyone, don't take offense by my passion to bring Jeff and Matt home safely. I watched them grow up I don't want to see them die over there. Peace

I'm going to the kickball thread...

Point taken Miss Kitty I will try to behave. We are after all much more civilized than Rosie and Donald. Please everyone, don't take offense by my passion to bring Jeff and Matt home safely. I watched them grow up I don't want to see them die over there. Peace

I'm going to the kickball thread...

I second that emotion!

Yes, I agree with you LBH & that has been my stance the first time he was elected. I am still amazed tho at the amount of people that still support him.

I always feel safe when I'm up against Bush supporters when I exclaim how I HATE this war. They can translate if they want, but there aren't many who disagree with my sentiment.

:clap_1: :clap_1: AMEN! Johnrudy. Glad to see people finally admitting it.

I'm with you Johnrudy and ThirtyAGal and have been from the start. It is refreshing to finally see people question W but how will anybody be able to clean up his mess? I am certainly not counting on him to do it.

I'm with you Johnrudy and ThirtyAGal and have been from the start. It is refreshing to finally see people question W but how will anybody be able to clean up his mess? I am certainly not counting on him to do it.

Believe it or not, I agree with the questioning of GW too when it come to his management of the war. Its when we get to the "He lied" or he "misled us to get into the war" that I have to disagree. As per my previous post, I believe that he and the admisnistrations prior to his, believed the intelligence reports
they were recieving. Most prominant Demos did as well. Remember, the intel came from not only the US but foreign intel too. He had a decision to make and he made it (with the support of most Demos). The intelligence was wrong in that the WMDs were not still "in theater". The fact that he had WMDs is not he question. If one is hell bent on saying he lied then you have to say all those in government dating back to the Carter adminstration lied too.

When you have tried diplomatic solutions (Bush I, Clinton, Bush II) to no avail, what do you do? Do you assume the intelligence is wrong? If we hadn't been attacked on 9/11 I believe the invasion would not have taken place. I'm not saying Saddam had anything to do with 9/11 but the ante on the WMDs was raised and became a more urgent matter to be addressed. Intelligence here was correct in that Saddam did have relationships with some terrorist organizations. Again I ask, what if the intel was correct? We were fighting in Afghanastan and Iraq could be and as it turned out was a haven for some AL queda leaders.

Again, I understand being anti-war. No one sane wants war. Leaders should be questioned and when necessary lambasted. I just wonder how many of those that say we shouldn't have gone to Iraq felt the same in 2002 when the operation began. If you felt the same way in 2002, then you apparently felt that Iraq's WMDs did not pose a threat to the US or that further UN resolutions was the answer (17+). I know that 9/11 was over 5 yrs ago...but the vast majority of the nation felt action had to be taken and that was the climate that existed when Bush made his decision.

I just wonder how many of those that say we shouldn't have gone to Iraq felt the same in 2002 when the operation began. If you felt the same way in 2002, then you apparently felt that Iraq's WMDs did not pose a threat to the US or that further UN resolutions was the answer (17+). I know that 9/11 was over 5 yrs ago...but the vast majority of the nation felt action had to be taken and that was the climate that existed when Bush made his decision.

Honestly, I can say that it never felt like the right decision to me, never. I say this not as some stereotypical peacenik, but as a person who listened to the information and all the arguments and still felt it was unwarranted. Maybe I was in the minority in my feeling, but I always had the underlying fear/suspicion that W's decision was based more on bravado and swagger than facts.