Obama says the debate is healthy but I disagree...

[Geo]

Our President recently said that our current health care debate is a "healthy thing". But you know, I am not convinced. I say this because I hear very little constructive discourse from those concerned with this issue. Instead I hear much absurd rhetoric.

Healthy, constructive opposition/concern looks like this-

"Mr. President, numerous think tanks and research groups conclude that a public option would create an unfair competitive environment for insurance companies and would force them out of business. What data do you have to suggest this isn't the case?"

"Senator Spector, the bill references end of life counseling every 5 years once a citizen reaches the age of 65. Can you please elaborate on what this means? Is it mandatory? And please help us to understand what some of the media is refering to as "rationing". I don't want to live in a country that has a group of doctors deciding if I am going to get a drug that I really need".

But instead this is what I am hearing-

[shouting]
"I will be quiet no more. We need to get back to the principles we were founded upon. This isn't Russia. I am not going to sit back and watch this country continue on its liberal course to Socialism. Obama told Joe the Plumber what we needed to know- that he was in favor of redistributing wealth. But we ignored it. Well enough is enough. I am 100% against Obamacare!"

One mindset is-
There is something being proposed that I fear and/or don't understand and if you are ever going to get my support you need to address points A, B and C.

The other is-
I don't really want you to address my concerns because I won't tell you specifically what they are. I only know that I love this country and know what is better for it and that your ideas are evil so I am going to vent now. And there are others like me. What you have done is awaken a sleeping giant.

Does anyone else feel this way about our "debate"???

 

[30ashopper]

There's plenty of constructive discourse going on right here on SoWal. Your complaint about the state of current discourse is non-constructive. (and I should point out that I mean that in a wink wink poke poke jab jab, monty python sort of way since such things don't comunicate well over forums. )

 

[Geo]

There's plenty of constructive discourse going on right here on SoWal. Your complaint about the state of current discourse is non-constructive. (and I should point out that I mean that in a wink wink poke poke jab jab, monty python sort of way since such things don't comunicate well over forums. )

 

[GoodWitch58]

Geo, at least it's healthy as far as those who are shouting their protests have identified themselves and their point of view.

better to have them "inside the tent" so to speak.....

 

[Blair]

Where has there been any DEBATE????

99% of the Washingtonians hadn't even read the thing....

Debate?

 

[Winnie]

Our President recently said that our current health care debate is a "healthy thing". But you know, I am not convinced. I say this because I hear very little constructive discourse from those concerned with this issue. Instead I hear much absurd rhetoric.

Does anyone else feel this way about our "debate"???

I can't really speak for those at town hall meetings. My experience here, on SoWal, has been rather mixed, but mostly frustrating regarding the health care debate.

Very few respond at all. Most of those who do, don't explain how they think the problems will be solved by any current proposals. Often, when I ask direct follow up questions to posted articles, there is no response.

My final conclusion is that the primary disagreement is the public option. There seems to be no compromise on this point from either side.

I'm guilty of opposing any reform plan that includes it. I've seen nothing that convinces me it isn't only a gateway to single-payer. I've also seen nothing to convince me that single-payer would be a better system than what we have now. Certainly not less expensive and likely not as efficient. I wish somebody could put forth a convincing argument against the free-market in this case. If they can, they haven't felt like it.

So there you go. Maybe those at the town hall meetings have had similar experiences in trying to compromise on reform. How do you debate with "all or nothing?"

 

[Smiling JOe]

Interesting that you used Sen Spector as the example, since he completely ignored many of the legit questions when they were asked in his "town hall meeting."

 

[Lynnie]

I haven't seen or heard a debate either. That said, I think there isn't a debate because both major parties see the need for reform. How they beat each other up getting to reform without creating a ginormous government is what we all have been experiencing.

So, if they can agree to propose legislation that is fair, inclusive and work on getting reform passed, I'd be willing to bet we would see some serious progress.

Now, define reform. Tort reform, many say should be at the top of the list
All should be covered with affordable health care - define affordable. Should we have co pays or go back to traditional catastrophic plans?

I personally believe pharma needs serious reform. Tort reform needs a look and yes every American should be able to access affordable medical care. Reform is not a single payer system, in my opinion.

This shouldn't be difficult to attain as long as Feds leave such legislation up to the States' and enforced ultimately by respective Ins. Commissioners, except FL, of course - where it's just a complete mess of a situation. ;-)

 

[fisher]

Our President recently said that our current health care debate is a "healthy thing". But you know, I am not convinced. I say this because I hear very little constructive discourse from those concerned with this issue. Instead I hear much absurd rhetoric.

Healthy, constructive opposition/concern looks like this-

"Mr. President, numerous think tanks and research groups conclude that a public option would create an unfair competitive environment for insurance companies and would force them out of business. What data do you have to suggest this isn't the case?"

"Senator Spector, the bill references end of life counseling every 5 years once a citizen reaches the age of 65. Can you please elaborate on what this means? Is it mandatory? And please help us to understand what some of the media is refering to as "rationing". I don't want to live in a country that has a group of doctors deciding if I am going to get a drug that I really need".

But instead this is what I am hearing-

[shouting]
"I will be quiet no more. We need to get back to the principles we were founded upon. This isn't Russia. I am not going to sit back and watch this country continue on its liberal course to Socialism. Obama told Joe the Plumber what we needed to know- that he was in favor of redistributing wealth. But we ignored it. Well enough is enough. I am 100% against Obamacare!"

One mindset is-
There is something being proposed that I fear and/or don't understand and if you are ever going to get my support you need to address points A, B and C.

The other is-
I don't really want you to address my concerns because I won't tell you specifically what they are. I only know that I love this country and know what is better for it and that your ideas are evil so I am going to vent now. And there are others like me. What you have done is awaken a sleeping giant.

Does anyone else feel this way about our "debate"???

I have found this whole thing about the take on the debate on healthcare. On the news, we hear about the organized gangs of conservatives trying to disrupt all of the town hall meetings. Yet, when you look at the actual pictures, it appears that the liberals supporting the health care initiatives are the well organized groups (example of pics GOP tries to capitalize on health care debate - STLtoday.com. The conservatives look much more disorganized but seem to be garnering more attention as an organized mob (example of pic FT.com / US / Politics & Foreign policy - Tempers fray as middle America finds its voice. The signs from the left look to be preprinted en masse. While the signs of the right seem to be made at home printed on cardboard paper.

So, which side really has the organized mass of people??? Looks like the right is a grass roots movement against the plan and the left is an organized group supporting the plan.

 

[Miss Kitty]

I agree with Mr. Obama that this debate is healthy. IMO, it is much healthier for all of us in the long run, as it has stopped them from running a "solution" through the system at warp speed without really doing the hard work. Our elected officials should be listening to the people they have been hired by to represent them. From what I have gathered, the debate is working and those folks are fine tuning the bills they plan to put forth. Wouldn't it be something if they actually came up with a workable plan for healthcare reform that included some manner of tort reform and pharma reform? I will remain a Hopeful cynic for change..

I am not familiar with all the town hall meeting disruptions, as I have seen jsut one on the news (I'm taking a news holiday, except for sowl.com ), but our country is based on this free speech thing and we all jsut need to accept that fact. I am not in favor of any "organized" group from either side disrupting a chance for people to get info from their elected officials. I do think they should be asking the tough questions in a civilized manner.

Carry on. (just please no name calling!) Wow...did I jsut write a thesis?