Rand Paul LOL!!!

It is my understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong because I am still learning what this guy and The Party stands for, that yes, we can have and do have private clubs that can exclude certain groups of people. But I think Rand was saying that a privately owned place, that serves the public (such as a burger counter) should be able to hang a sign saying "NO _______ allowed." Fill that in with blacks, fat people, white men, women, children or robots.

Am I correct and if not, tell me. I hope I am not correct.

G

There is a restaurant on 30A that excludes children. There are places in my hometown that make private rules. I make rules on my private property.
Is he really advocating this kind of blatant exclusion? I am reluctant to call this discrimination just yet because I don't know all of the facts, but what I heard yesterday was him clarifying some media-spun erroneous statements about him regarding the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Based upon the divisiveness driven by the news outlets these days, I am considering this spin with a grain of salt.

Anyone watch BET? Black Entertainment Television? Discrimination? What if there was movement called "100 White Men?" Who would be screaming discrimination?

There is a restaurant on 30A that excludes children. There are places in my hometown that make private rules. I make rules on my private property.
Is he really advocating this kind of blatant exclusion? I am reluctant to call this discrimination just yet because I don't know all of the facts, but what I heard yesterday was him clarifying some media-spun erroneous statements about him regarding the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Based upon the divisiveness driven by the news outlets these days, I am considering this spin with a grain of salt.

Anyone watch BET? Black Entertainment Television? Discrimination? What if there was movement called "100 White Men?" Who would be screaming discrimination?

So I'm asking this. If there was a restaurant on 30A that excluded gays or black men or fat white women would that be ok? Let's say I opened a health food restaurant on 30A and I said, hold it there lady, I don't serve fat people. ( I don't know the laws about children - perhaps because they are underage....)

I'm still asking and trying to find out where the line is drawn, when is it ok for someone to say to you, "STOP, you can't come in here!" Help me understand.

G

Another politician with his foot in his mouth. He will now be forever known as the fruit loop who believes in discrimination. I bet his handlers don't know how to fix that one, other than making him keep quite, avoid interviews, etc, so that he doesn't lose the election.

I love the discussion, but I am still confused.

G

Yes, and you can control whether or not you are carrying a gun, have a king cobra around your neck or whatever.

You can control who you associate with, what religion you follow, and what you say, which is also covered.

Hate speech and hate crime laws are an off shoot of the civil rights act. It is a federal crime (Thank you Pres. Obama!) to verbally abuse a person based on race, religion, physical characteristics, or sex. Some democrat politicians actually tried to use this to silence Obama critics in the press, claiming criticism of Obama's policies was "hate speech".

In other countries which have traversed a similar path, it can be against the law to criticize political leadership! Welcome to our Brave New World!

This is the "slippery slope" people like Rand Paul recognize.

Another politician with his foot in his mouth. He will now be forever known as the fruit loop who believes in discrimination. I bet his handlers don't know how to fix that one, other than making him keep quite, avoid interviews, etc, so that he doesn't lose the election.

In fairness to Rand Paul, I don't happen to believe that he is racist or discriminatory. He is taking a very hard line individual rights stance when it comes to private businesses. In theory this makes for interesting discussion, but in practice some of these ideas are dangerous. I think he's really more of a twit, a political geek, somewhere along those lines. Fruit loop? definitely.

You can control who you associate with, what religion you follow, and what you say, which is also covered.

Hate speech and hate crime laws are an off shoot of the civil rights act. It is a federal crime (Thank you Pres. Obama!) to verbally abuse a person based on race, religion, physical characteristics, or sex. Some democrat politicians actually tried to use this to silence Obama critics in the press, claiming criticism of Obama's policies was "hate speech".

In other countries which have traversed a similar path, it can be against the law to criticize political leadership! Welcome to our Brave New World!

This is the "slippery slope" people like Rand Paul recognize.

But should a business owner, say of a restaurant, be allowed to say STOP at the door - not because of no shirt or shoes but because of color, gender, or whatever reason? And isn't this what Rand is saying - that they should have the freedom to do just that. That's all I want to know and then I can move on.

G

So I'm asking this. If there was a restaurant on 30A that excluded gays or black men or fat white women would that be ok? Let's say I opened a health food restaurant on 30A and I said, hold it there lady, I don't serve fat people. ( I don't know the laws about children - perhaps because they are underage....)

I'm still asking and trying to find out where the line is drawn, when is it ok for someone to say to you, "STOP, you can't come in here!" Help me understand.

G

It is arbitrary. As long as one is not in violation of federal or state law, they can discriminate. If you are wearing a purple blouse and the owner doesn't like purple blouses, they can kick you out. If you are wearing a hat, and they don't like hats, they can throw you out. If a business owner wanted to violate the law and get away with it, they could make up random reasons for not allowing anyone in.

I forget what town and state I was in when I saw a sign on a small night club, the only one in town, that read something like "no gold chains, no ball caps, no tank tops, no high-top shoes, belts required." I asked a few locals what was up with that, and they said that the owner didn't want black people in his club and that was what all of the local black people wore.

But, who am I to judge. I don't like rude, obnoxious, elitist behavior displayed by people, regardless of race, nationality, sex, age, etc. I guess we all have our likes and dislikes. (I remember once seeing a sign at an all-you-can-eat restaurant stating they didn't serve anyone over 250lbs. I think some fat people probably qualify as having a disability and could be protected from discrimination based on physical disability.)

But should a business owner, say of a restaurant, be allowed to say STOP at the door - not because of no shirt or shoes but because of color, gender, or whatever reason? And isn't this what Rand is saying - that they should have the freedom to do just that. That's all I want to know and then I can move on.

G

Yes that is what he is saying, but not because he advocates such actions.

They ask for driver's license because it is typical that people in the US drive. However, driver's license isn't required for anything other than driving. A legal photo ID is sufficient for most things. ;-)

And if you do not drive, then you get a "state ID card" from the DMV. That's what I did before I was 16 and went to Canada.

Yes that is what he is saying, but not because he advocates such actions.

Thanks - I just got off the phone w/my son who is a Ron and Rand Paul supporter. He explained that they don't believe the government should be the ones to legislate morality. (Rand and Ron personally are not in favor of discriminating but both say the owner should have the freedom to do so) IF I find it appalling that a restaurant would refuse service to _______, _______ or _______ group then I have the right to a) never go back to that restaurant b) picket out front c) stand and cheer and go back weekly.

He's yet to explain why Obama was said to be un-American for fussing at BP and why the oil industry should not be regulated - and reason being is that he wanted to know (my son that is) the context of the article and speech, etc...so I'll find out later what his take is on that when I send him the article.

He told me that one time Ron was accused as being anti-child because he wanted to abolish the dept of education. So he said be sure to get the FULL picture.

As for Rand thinking Sarah Palin would make a good president - my son said, "I'll never find anyone I agree with 100%." ;-)

So now I understand things a little better.

G

.
This happened a year or so ago here in Arlington at a Farmer’s Market store where a great number of the customers are Muslim (it is a highly diverse area of the city.):
When Latifa Aimaq went into the market, she found trouble from the proprietor. Aimaq covers all but her eyes and hands when in public, but signs posted in the market say faces must be visible. Burka, niqab not allowed.
“I tried to explain to her it’s for our safety and the safety of our customers,” said store manager Chris Perez.
“He was very intimidating. He began to yell: ‘Get out! Get out! Get out! We don’t allow people with a face veil in here!’”




.

In fairness to Rand Paul, I don't happen to believe that he is racist or discriminatory. He is taking a very hard line individual rights stance when it comes to private businesses. In theory this makes for interesting discussion, but in practice some of these ideas are dangerous. I think he's really more of a twit, a political geek, somewhere along those lines. Fruit loop? definitely.

There really isn't much discussion in today's world. People don't make time for that. They take the headline flashes and put it into their mind as though it is the truth. ;-)

Since robbers will often cover their faces in full ski-masks, there can be laws against covering the face. While it isn't law, most local banks have signs posted on the front door asking everyone to remove their hat and sunglasses before entering for security. I'm sure in other places where there are many Muslims, this policy would draw much attention. No one bats an eye at it here where there Muslims are barely present.

.
This happened a year or so ago here in Arlington at a Farmer?s Market store where a great number of the customers are Muslim (it is a highly diverse area of the city.):
When Latifa Aimaq went into the market, she found trouble from the proprietor. Aimaq covers all but her eyes and hands when in public, but signs posted in the market say faces must be visible. Burka, niqab not allowed.
?I tried to explain to her it?s for our safety and the safety of our customers,? said store manager Chris Perez.
?He was very intimidating. He began to yell: ?Get out! Get out! Get out! We don?t allow people with a face veil in here!??




.

So what happened? Was there a huge stink about it? Did most people agree or disagree?

Thanks for sharing.

G

Thanks - I just got off the phone w/my son who is a Ron and Rand Paul supporter. He explained that they don't believe the government should be the ones to legislate morality. (Rand and Ron personally are not in favor of discriminating but both say the owner should have the freedom to do so) IF I find it appalling that a restaurant would refuse service to _______, _______ or _______ group then I have the right to a) never go back to that restaurant b) picket out front c) stand and cheer and go back weekly.

He's yet to explain why Obama was said to be un-American for fussing at BP and why the oil industry should not be regulated - and reason being is that he wanted to know (my son that is) the context of the article and speech, etc...so I'll find out later what his take is on that when I send him the article.

He told me that one time Ron was accused as being anti-child because he wanted to abolish the dept of education. So he said be sure to get the FULL picture.

As for Rand thinking Sarah Palin would make a good president - my son said, "I'll never find anyone I agree with 100%." ;-)

So now I understand things a little better.

G

Exactly! Nice way to sum things up.

So I'm asking this. If there was a restaurant on 30A that excluded gays or black men or fat white women would that be ok? Let's say I opened a health food restaurant on 30A and I said, hold it there lady, I don't serve fat people. ( I don't know the laws about children - perhaps because they are underage....)

I'm still asking and trying to find out where the line is drawn, when is it ok for someone to say to you, "STOP, you can't come in here!" Help me understand.

G

I know. But, how does cable TV get away with BET? And, other forms of discrimination that many of us face daily?

Thanks - I just got off the phone w/my son who is a Ron and Rand Paul supporter. He explained that they don't believe the government should be the ones to legislate morality. (Rand and Ron personally are not in favor of discriminating but both say the owner should have the freedom to do so) IF I find it appalling that a restaurant would refuse service to _______, _______ or _______ group then I have the right to a) never go back to that restaurant b) picket out front c) stand and cheer and go back weekly.

He's yet to explain why Obama was said to be un-American for fussing at BP and why the oil industry should not be regulated - and reason being is that he wanted to know (my son that is) the context of the article and speech, etc...so I'll find out later what his take is on that when I send him the article.

He told me that one time Ron was accused as being anti-child because he wanted to abolish the dept of education. So he said be sure to get the FULL picture.

As for Rand thinking Sarah Palin would make a good president - my son said, "I'll never find anyone I agree with 100%." ;-)

So now I understand things a little better.

G

Your son is brilliant! ;-)

I know. But, how does cable TV get away with BET? And, other forms of discrimination that many of us face daily?

There are plenty forms of discrimination, such as boy scouts & girl scouts. However, you won't find many (though there have been some) boys who want to be a Girl Scout. Each group discriminates based on sex, though I think there was a gay male who sued for not being allowed into the girl scouts. I think he won. Each group takes pride in their discrimination based on sex, just look at their names.

I often wondered why we had a Black Miss Univ. of Ga Pageant in addition to the Miss Univ. of Ga Pageant. It really goes against what Dr King was preaching. I cannot imagine the hoopla if they called the Miss Univ. of Ga pageant the "White Miss Univ. of Ga pageant." The people heading up the black pageant will tell you that the regular one IS the white one.

Also, we don't allow discrimination based on age, but there are communities where you cannot buy property if you are under a certain age.

So what happened? Was there a huge stink about it? Did most people agree or disagree?

Thanks for sharing.

G

.
Each accuses the other of over-reacting. ?I said, ?We?re Muslim; this is the way we dress,?? Aimaq recalls having told Perez. ?He did not care.?
Aimaq said Perez made it clear why he wanted her out. ?He said, ?I don?t want the Muslims to shop here.??
Perez disputed that account. ?Muslims are probably 40 to 50 percent of my business,? he said. ?I?m not turning them away.?
Terence Ali, a frequent customer at Cooper Street Farmers Market, overheard the explanation from Perez and joined in.
?If you?re shopping in a store, obviously they?re going to want to see your face, or want to be able to see your face to protect other customers,? Ali said. ?I don?t think it?s wrong for a business owner to say that.?
Ali ? who is a Muslim ? said he has shopped here every week for years, and shopkeepers know he is a Muslim. ?There?s never been a problem,? he said.
But Latifa Aimaq said she has never had a problem like this before ? not at the airport, at the bank or even when getting her driver?s license photo.
She is urging Muslims and others to boycott the store.
?I began to cover fully three years ago,? she said. ?It?s not mandatory to cover your face, but it?s highly recommended.?

.
There was a call for a boycott of the store, but I don?t think it went anywhere because as I remember other Muslim customers had a good enough relationship with the store owner that they didn?t feel he singled her out for any reason other than the almost total coverage.

It is an intriguing kind of situation. Perfect opportunity for a criminal mind. I guess in this case my opinion would be that she would need to uncover her face if she wanted to shop there or if that wasn?t something she felt she could do, she would need to have someone do her shopping for her.



.

It is refreshing to see all the angst and tribulation regarding a candidate supposedly supported by the Tea Party, which BTW, really isn't a "Party" at all. Once again, you, all of you, are cordially invited to attend the local Tea Party meeting at the library meeting room at 6 P.M. on the 2nd Thursday of the month, June 10, 2010.
Those involved with the Tea Party do not believe in larger government, more frivolous spending, higher taxes without measurable results or taking from one group to indiscriminately give to another. There is usually a candidate running for office as a guest speakers at these meetings. You might find one interesting as well as enlightening.

Exactly! Nice way to sum things up.

I don't think requiring businesses to serve equally is strictly about morality. There are serious infrastructure and logistical issues involved when you restrict somebody's ability to piss due to their melanin content.

I know. But, how does cable TV get away with BET? And, other forms of discrimination that many of us face daily?

Again, seriously? BET is discriminatory? You're not allowed to watch it? WTF? I just went and checked, and my clicker let me click right over there.

Oh, because they mostly show black people? So is ESPN discriminating against the uncoordinated? Is Playboy discriminating against flat chested women? All of those Bollywood music videos, are they discriminating against non-Asians who can't dance?

Do you even know what discrimination IS, from a legal standpoint? Do you seriously, seriously think that a business marketing to a group you don't belong to is discrimination? How do you feel about Cialis commercials, since you can't get ED? How do you feel about commercials for beer, if you don't drink beer?

Here's another question and Andy you probably can answer. Let's just say that someone liked what Rand is saying and wanted to vote from him. He may be a tea party bloke (Mr Magoo's Cmas Carol ) but he's running as a republican which would never connect with me. Newt, Rush, Hannity, etc....

So will the tea party become a viable third party? Is that what he and you want? Does he and others want to break away from the republican party? Or is the republican party becoming the tea party but will still be called the republican party

I'm not interested in voting for him or any other tea partier after reading the issues on Rand's web page - too much I disagree with (some I do get) - but I am very curious about the above questions.

Thanks
G

Again, seriously? BET is discriminatory? You're not allowed to watch it? WTF? I just went and checked, and my clicker let me click right over there.

Oh, because they mostly show black people? So is ESPN discriminating against the uncoordinated? Is Playboy discriminating against flat chested women? All of those Bollywood music videos, are they discriminating against non-Asians who can't dance?

Do you even know what discrimination IS, from a legal standpoint? Do you seriously, seriously think that a business marketing to a group you don't belong to is discrimination? How do you feel about Cialis commercials, since you can't get ED? How do you feel about commercials for beer, if you don't drink beer?

I think, and I might be wrong, that Lynnie meant there would be a lot of folks screaming if a new station was started called WHITE Entertainment Network.

Is that what you are saying L?