http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009890
Here is a former terrorist talking about the dangers of appeasement.
The Trouble With Islam
Sadly, mainstream Muslim teaching accepts and promotes violence.
BY TAWFIK HAMID
Tuesday, April 3, 2007 12:01 a.m. EDT
Not many years ago the brilliant Orientalist, Bernard Lewis, published a short history of the Islamic world's decline, entitled "What Went Wrong?" Astonishingly, there was, among many Western "progressives," a vocal dislike for the title. It is a false premise, these critics protested. They ignored Mr. Lewis's implicit statement that things have been, or could be, right.
But indeed, there is much that is clearly wrong with the Islamic world. Women are stoned to death and undergo clitorectomies. Gays hang from the gallows under the approving eyes of the proponents of Shariah, the legal code of Islam. Sunni and Shia massacre each other daily in Iraq. Palestinian mothers teach 3-year-old boys and girls the ideal of martyrdom. One would expect the orthodox Islamic establishment to evade or dismiss these complaints, but less happily, the non-Muslim priests of enlightenment in the West have come, actively and passively, to the Islamists' defense.
These "progressives" frequently cite the need to examine "root causes." In this they are correct: Terrorism is only the manifestation of a disease and not the disease itself. But the root-causes are quite different from what they think. As a former member of Jemaah Islamiya, a group led by al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, I know firsthand that the inhumane teaching in Islamist ideology can transform a young, benevolent mind into that of a terrorist. Without confronting the ideological roots of radical Islam it will be impossible to combat it. While there are many ideological "rootlets" of Islamism, the main tap root has a name--Salafism, or Salafi Islam, a violent, ultra-conservative version of the religion.
It is vital to grasp that traditional and even mainstream Islamic teaching accepts and promotes violence. Shariah, for example, allows apostates to be killed, permits beating women to discipline them, seeks to subjugate non-Muslims to Islam as dhimmis and justifies declaring war to do so. It exhorts good Muslims to exterminate the Jews before the "end of days." The near deafening silence of the Muslim majority against these barbaric practices is evidence enough that there is something fundamentally wrong.
The grave predicament we face in the Islamic world is the virtual lack of approved, theologically rigorous interpretations of Islam that clearly challenge the abusive aspects of Shariah. Unlike Salafism, more liberal branches of Islam, such as Sufism, typically do not provide the essential theological base to nullify the cruel proclamations of their Salafist counterparts. And so, for more than 20 years I have been developing and working to establish a theologically-rigorous Islam that teaches peace.
Yet it is ironic and discouraging that many non-Muslim, Western intellectuals--who unceasingly claim to support human rights--have become obstacles to reforming Islam. Political correctness among Westerners obstructs unambiguous criticism of Shariah's inhumanity. They find socioeconomic or political excuses for Islamist terrorism such as poverty, colonialism, discrimination or the existence of Israel. What incentive is there for Muslims to demand reform when Western "progressives" pave the way for Islamist barbarity? Indeed, if the problem is not one of religious beliefs, it leaves one to wonder why Christians who live among Muslims under identical circumstances refrain from contributing to wide-scale, systematic campaigns of terror.
Politicians and scholars in the West have taken up the chant that Islamic extremism is caused by the Arab-Israeli conflict. This analysis cannot convince any rational person that the Islamist murder of over 150,000 innocent people in Algeria--which happened in the last few decades--or their slaying of hundreds of Buddhists in Thailand, or the brutal violence between Sunni and Shia in Iraq could have anything to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict.
Western feminists duly fight in their home countries for equal pay and opportunity, but seemingly ignore, under a fa?ade of cultural relativism, that large numbers of women in the Islamic world live under threat of beating, execution and genital mutilation, or cannot vote, drive cars and dress as they please.
The tendency of many Westerners to restrict themselves to self-criticism further obstructs reformation in Islam. Americans demonstrate against the war in Iraq, yet decline to demonstrate against the terrorists who kidnap innocent people and behead them. Similarly, after the Madrid train bombings, millions of Spanish citizens demonstrated against their separatist organization, ETA. But once the demonstrators realized that Muslims were behind the terror attacks they suspended the demonstrations. This example sent a message to radical Islamists to continue their violent methods.
Western appeasement of their Muslim communities has exacerbated the problem. During the four-month period after the publication of the Muhammad cartoons in a Danish magazine, there were comparatively few violent demonstrations by Muslims. Within a few days of the Danish magazine's formal apology, riots erupted throughout the world. The apology had been perceived by Islamists as weakness and concession.
Worst of all, perhaps, is the anti-Americanism among many Westerners. It is a resentment so strong, so deep-seated, so rooted in personal identity, that it has led many, consciously or unconsciously, to morally support America's enemies.
Progressives need to realize that radical Islam is based on an antiliberal system. They need to awaken to the inhumane policies and practices of Islamists around the world. They need to realize that Islamism spells the death of liberal values. And they must not take for granted the respect for human rights and dignity that we experience in America, and indeed, the West, today.
Well-meaning interfaith dialogues with Muslims have largely been fruitless. Participants must demand--but so far haven't--that Muslim organizations and scholars specifically and unambiguously denounce violent Salafi components in their mosques and in the media. Muslims who do not vocally oppose brutal Shariah decrees should not be considered "moderates."
All of this makes the efforts of Muslim reformers more difficult. When Westerners make politically-correct excuses for Islamism, it actually endangers the lives of reformers and in many cases has the effect of suppressing their voices.
Tolerance does not mean toleration of atrocities under the umbrella of relativism. It is time for all of us in the free world to face the reality of Salafi Islam or the reality of radical Islam will continue to face us.
Dr. Hamid, a onetime member of Jemaah Islamiya, an Islamist terrorist group, is a medical doctor and Muslim reformer living in the West.
Replies
230
Skunky
I suspect you of something......you have it all figured out and must be nuetralized!!
I know what I know and am frankly way too lazy to read back through the thread...and I realize I am not going to persuade anyone else, so why even get worked up? I work with an Iranian, as well as a dual Iraqi/Syrian... I vote, and I write my elected officials...that is about all that matters
FunnChef - AlisonCooks.com
Easy now, I'm tired from chasing mf. I was trying to be nice, but obviuosly how can you tell from this afternoons' workout of bs....right, mf???
I'll take it as nice.....now back to our regurlary scheduled bs......continue all
(note my tar.....
)
SoWal Insider
so, you're a hijacker are you?
....now back to our regurlary scheduled bs......continue all
(note my tar.....
FunnChef - AlisonCooks.com
so, you're a hijacker are you?
:shock: .......................
every one must go screaming from this thread!
Banned
phelps, to non-christians, may represent all christians. a fruitcake to you and me, does not make a fruitcake to all. the non-violent muslims may look at a vocal leader in the u.s.a. and think that all americans are like him, especially if they elected him or her as their leader. after seeing much of this repeatedly, they may begin to think that they should be more extreme to fight the evilness. i think that many of the iraquis may be put in the situation of defending their own, just like the south did against the north in the america's "civil war." the south wasn't fighting so much for slavery as they were fighting to keep the north off of their property and out of their towns. if we don't kill them, they are coming to kill us. that sounds familiar.
fair enough, a better way to say this may be to explain that he has no true power. while he might be a homophobe and hate american soldiers he has no right to murder them in our country.
so while phelps might be in agreement with some extreme islamists, i don't think they mistake him as having any power here.
as far as your assessment of the iraq war, i'm not sure i understand your analogy. i know that finally the shia majority is free to worship as they see fit. and that syria and iran have been fueling the fires there for sometimes now as they do in isreal. so it really involves many more parties than simply two-party fight.
Banned
amen :roll:
i'm sure we all vote and write our officials regularly! and for some of us this stuff strikes even closer to home.
i guess after living here a while, i was just getting desperate for a little intellectual debate. kinda shocked at the response :shock:
Banned
somebody has a crush on me! can you say OBSESSION?
***Easy now, I'm tired from chasing mf. I was trying to be nice, but obviuosly how can you tell from this afternoons' workout of bs....right, mf???
***I would prefer to watch the sunset video of Ronald Reagan's funeral while holding hands with mf. I miss Ronny.
***The solution to all the world's problems, unobtainable, as it is, is that you are most likely confronting the enemy when you look in the mirror. It's between the ears on that big head of yours mf, because that's where compromise begins. Shut down that judgement mode, and listen to the other side.
**mf will fix the inferior religion
***mf may or may not have attended a Baptist service once
***Easy now, I'm tired from chasing mf. I was trying to be nice, but obviuosly how can you tell from this afternoons' workout of bs....right, mf???
Beach Comber
fair enough, a better way to say this may be to explain that he has no true power. while he might be a homophobe and hate american soldiers he has no right to murder them in our country.sorry about that, mf. i was combining the two in thought. while i mentioned phelps, since he was in the discussion, and is a leader of a select group of christians, not too different than the radical islamists, even if on a much smaller scale, (sorry for the wordiness) you could exchange any leader, or perceived leader in his place for my discussion. any tv celebrity, for example, who stands up for a cause, and receives a following, could be perceived as a leader in the usa, by the people across the globe, whose source of information might be the internet and tv. this perceived leader could also be the president. just like the variations of beliefs within christianity, there are variations of americans, and not all are represented by one political figure, even though perception from around the world is that the elected official is the supreme leader. whatever leader it happens to be, if the radical islamics perceive that leader and our country as a threat, threats will be made against us as a whole, not against some of us in particular who have a particular belief. my us "civil war" thought fits in here, with the usa being the north in my analogy and the radical islamics being the south, who were being invaded, forcing them to take up arms in defense.
so while phelps might be in agreement with some extreme islamists, i don't think they mistake him as having any power here.
as far as your assessment of the iraq war, i'm not sure i understand your analogy. i know that finally the shia majority is free to worship as they see fit. and that syria and iran have been fueling the fires there for sometimes now as they do in isreal. so it really involves many more parties than simply two-party fight.
Banned
sorry about that, mf. i was combining the two in thought. while i mentioned phelps, since he was in the discussion, and is a leader of a select group of christians, not too different than the radical islamists, even if on a much smaller scale, (sorry for the wordiness) you could exchange any leader, or perceived leader in his place for my discussion. any tv celebrity, for example, who stands up for a cause, and receives a following, could be perceived as a leader in the usa, by the people across the globe, whose source of information might be the internet and tv. this perceived leader could also be the president. just like the variations of beliefs within christianity, there are variations of americans, and not all are represented by one political figure, even though perception from around the world is that the elected official is the supreme leader. whatever leader it happens to be, if the radical islamics perceive that leader and our country as a threat, threats will be made against us as a whole, not against some of us in particular who have a particular belief. my us "civil war" thought fits in here, with the usa being the north in my analogy and the radical islamics being the south, who were being invaded, forcing them to take up arms in defense.
I get what you're going for, but I think it's tough to view the iraqui situation in such simplistic terms. Whether or not you agree with the war..which lordy! i will NOT get into actual politics
hahahaha!The situation with Syria and Iran and Al Queada in Afghanistan should not be overlooked. In my humble opinion it is a FAR more complex situation than the civil war.
Banned
I was reading one of my favorite termites post and I am of the opinion that meds are definitely in order. Joe you are definitely a very tormented person who is suffering from the fact that your vocabulary is limited.
coming from a termite like yourself I can see why you would be so quick to use the kind of profanity that you did when small children read these post occasionally.
I would find it easier to be compelled of your arguments if you could some how learn to use language that a person with an 80 IQ or above can use.
coming from a termite like yourself I can see why you would be so quick to use the kind of profanity that you did when small children read these post occasionally.
I would find it easier to be compelled of your arguments if you could some how learn to use language that a person with an 80 IQ or above can use.
Edited
SoWal Insider
somebody has a crush on me! can you say OBSESSION?Hold my hand and watch the sunset mf, but don't say a word, or out comes the duct tape!
Admin
Please remember that personal attacks and name calling are not allowed on our forums. I am speaking to everyone. Thanks!
Meow
I can tell one and all that reading this thread under the influence does not help. 
Banned
Kurt thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention. I believe also that we should be able to convey thoughts and Ideologies with out saying some of the things that I have had to endure.
SoWal Expert
I was reading one of my favorite termites post and I am of the opinion that meds are definitely in order. Joe you are definitely a very tormented person who is suffering from the fact that your vocabulary is limited.fabian, perhaps you will give intelligent information to back up your opinions of your accusations of me needing medication. Also, please tell me how I am a "termite."
I would find it easier to be compelled of your arguments if you could some how learn to use language that a person with an 80 IQ or above can use.
Also sounds like my use of the English language is too simple for you to grasp. If that is the case, I think you may have trouble reading the rest of this thread. ;-)
Kurt thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention. I believe also that we should be able to convey thoughts and Ideologies with out saying some of the things that I have had to endure.By the way, you have quite the nerve to write this and then suggest that my IQ is less than 80, call me a termite, and say that I need medication. Get for real.
Edited
needs to get out more
Kurt thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention. I believe also that we should be able to convey thoughts and Ideologies with out saying some of the things that I have had to endure.
what you have had to endure??
FunnChef - AlisonCooks.com
what you have had to endure??delusional
Banned
On post 106 I was commenting on a prior post and was in no way slanderous to anyone.
Then My xxxxxxx in post 107 decides to come out and rescue the day and dig his spurs into me. You tell me who is starting this xxxx. YES A REPLY WOULD BE NICE IF YOU FEEL YOUR UP TO IT.
Then My xxxxxxx in post 107 decides to come out and rescue the day and dig his spurs into me. You tell me who is starting this xxxx.
YES A REPLY WOULD BE NICE IF YOU FEEL YOUR UP TO IT.Edited
FunnChef - AlisonCooks.com
do you people forget what you write, or is it something else? A comment was made by me on post 106 which was totally in reference to what we were talking about. Then My xxxxxxx in post 107 decides to come to the rescue and dig his spurs into me. You tell me who is starting this xxxx.:shock:
:shock:SoWal Expert
I didn't realize that you were enduring that. If you notice the quote at the top of my post 107 was from Jdarg, not you.
Still doesn't explain you calling me a termite, suggesting that I have an IQ of less than 80, and that I need medication, even if I would have directed that directly to you.
Still doesn't explain you calling me a termite, suggesting that I have an IQ of less than 80, and that I need medication, even if I would have directed that directly to you.
FunnChef - AlisonCooks.com
do you people forget what you write, or is it something else? A comment was made by me on post 106 which was totally in reference to what we were talking about. Then My xxxxxxx in post 107 decides to come to the rescue and dig his spurs into me. You tell me who is starting this xxxx.
I didn't realize that you were enduring that. If you notice the quote at the top of my post 107 was from Jdarg, not you.You two need to go to neutral turf.....or would you like a ref????
Still doesn't explain you calling me a termite, suggesting that I have an IQ of less than 80, and that I need medication, even if I would have directed that directly to you.
needs to get out more
Bob, you must stop eating that watermelon and try to understand that the western world goes contrary to everything Islamist believe. Its sad but true I love to aggravate people just like the next guy but on this subject your vision is obstructed. Further more I believe like 6th gen that it is essential to our national security to help Israel.But supply sided tax cuts I am still researching. No one wants Muslims to be this way they just are.
I think Kurt should start the "Ugh! Argh! STFU!" forum, for threads like this one and quite a few others that come to mind....
and your point is? that you appear to be making across the board racial slurs about muslims again? yes, it appears so.
fwiw, above features your post #106, jdarg's post #95, and Smiling JOe's post in response to jdarg. and your point is?
Edited
Banned
Fabian, perhaps you will give intelligent information to back up your opinions of your accusations of me needing medication. Also, please tell me how I am a "termite."
I think we already covered that
Also sounds like my use of the English language is too simple for you to grasp. If that is the case, I think you may have trouble reading the rest of this thread. ;-)
there should be a comma after also. further more I believe this above paragraph is a run on sentence;but I'm not sure,but I believe it is. I'm not having as much trouble as you are having to write it,thats for sure.
By the way, you have quite the nerve to write this and then suggest that my IQ is less than 80, call me a termite, and say that I need medication. Get for real.
By the way? You lost me why not just start at you? Be concise when you write. This is what my Jr. high teacher always told me. You should have put a comma after this before your conjunction. Your last sentence is not a sentence;but you knew that I guess, you were just testing me. You people have mistaken me for the cry baby and its you who has the bottle in your hands.
You go berserk anytime someone questions your idea's. I have to say out of all the xxxxxx heads that I've encountered on this Thread I would say the only one who genuinely understands this topic is 6th Gen. And he is the only person and I repeat only person who gives as good as he can take. I don't hear him crying to Kurt every time we have a disagreement.
If I start saying something to you that is out of the way go back and read your personal attacks on me first. Then ask yourself what is 2b going to say? Well, It will be on the same level. The only difference is I won't have to use profanity.:nono1:
Why are you people so interested in my grammar, and usage? Am I dealing with people who are debating grammar or topic?
Edited
FunnChef - AlisonCooks.com
I only have one more thought to add to this thread...you can quote all the editorials, political issues, magazines, books, discussions and so called experts that you wish...but the bottom line is....until you live that life, until you have those experiences...I dare you to judje what other cultures are doing to exist and live in this world. I do not agree with extermination, religious elitism, racial elitism,...etc...but I also do not condone such ridiculous thinking that allows for people to make judgements on subjects that they have no first had knowledge of!!!! Go over there and live for a year...then get back to us!!!!
Edited
Banned
If this is the case then I stand to be corrected and quickly rush to Joe's side to ask for his forgiveness.
If he chooses not to forgive then I understand, but if his post was meant for me in post 107,then maybe he can see why I was not happy about that statement.
If he chooses not to forgive then I understand, but if his post was meant for me in post 107,then maybe he can see why I was not happy about that statement.
Edited
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