This one goes straight to the pope

Well, the Pope really is the leader of a sovereign nation - called the Holy See, so he does have those legal protections.

I believe once he gets "poped" he is then considered above the law.

This is going to cripple the Church if they don't do something - hard to be a moral authority when you are protecting pedophiles - the lowest of the low IMO! :angry:

Well, the Pope really is the leader of a sovereign nation - called the Holy See, so he does have those legal protections.

I believe once he gets "poped" he is then considered above the law.

This is going to cripple the Church if they don't do something - hard to be a moral authority when you are protecting pedophiles - the lowest of the low IMO! :angry:

Has any reigning pope ever been un-poped? If not, this may be the year for all those guys in gowns to set some buttkicking precedent. The trick then would be finding a new pope from within the ranks whose soul isn't similarly tarnished with such wickedness and hypocrisy.

You cannot be "unpoped." The only thing he can do is resign - but only of his own free will - and the last time a pope resigned was 1415 (when there were 2 popes).

The Code of Canon Law has no provision that allows a pope's removal from office? for any reason, even poor health or psychological trauma. That's because, according to church law, there is no higher authority than the pope: He "possesses supreme, full, immediate, and universal ordinary power in the Church, which he is always able to exercise freely."

Damn, I miss JP!

Yes, resign or die. What gets me about the sovreignty issue is that while we have sovereign immunity here, as do many governments, it can and has been overridden. Given such horrific acts, I think we'd see a sovreignty go down here.

Maybe Nostradamus's prediction was/is correct?

Nothing will happen until the followers stand up to their leaders.

The pope is "infallible" :roll: right? There is no recourse.

Nothing will happen until the followers stand up to their leaders.

And stop giving them money.

And stop giving them money.

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We already did that - after our bishops basically told us we were going to hell if we voted for Obama (abortion being the only issue of importance to them). :angry:

We have been able to give money that would have been tithing to charities of our choosing instead. And now with these revelations surfacing, I may be looking for a different church.


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We already did that - after our bishops basically told us we were going to hell if we voted for Obama (abortion being the only issue of importance to them). :angry:

We have been able to give money that would have been tithing to charities of our choosing instead. And now with these revelations surfacing, I may be looking for a different church.


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I feel for Catholic Congregants who are faced with decisions like this. You are the backbone of the Catholic Church. Personally, I do not believe Roe v. Wade will ever be repealed no matter the political persuasian of the Justices. But, glad you found other ways to give.

This scandal is really heating up. Allegedly, one Priest has three children and molested one of his own children. I think more will surface......while the world ponders why the Pope won't come forward and tell what he knew, when he knew and why he did nothing.

This is very sad and unfortunate!

It is my opinion that, in most cases, all organized religion is more about money and politics than it is about spirtuality.

It is my opinion that, in most cases, all organized religion is more about money and politics than it is about spirtuality.

Who are you and how did you hack into Andy's account?

It is my opinion that, in most cases, all organized religion is more about money and politics than it is about spirtuality.

Who are you and how did you hack into Andy's account?

Church, Inc. lashed out at the New York Times today accusing the newspaper of attacking CEO Joseph RATzinger (aka Benedict) "at all costs" and called its reporting of a scandal that is documented to reach RATzinger as "deficient by any reasonable standards of fairness".

So basically they haven't refuted any facts presented by the Times and they plan to let their boss hide under his shiny gold immunity gown because he is a head of a "soverign nation"- but the Times is the bad guy here.

Nice predictable moves straight out of the crisis PR playbook.

Again-

DISGUSTING...

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/vatican-lashes-out-at-ny-times-for-sex-abuse-coverage

Blame it on the Devil

Satan behind media attacks on the Pope, asserts Italian exorcist :: Catholic News Agency (CNA)

The Devil made me do it isn't gonna cut it Father.

Who are you and how did you hack into Andy's account?

There is a whole side of me of which you are not aware and have no comprehension.

Here's another good one-

What is happening to poor Benedict is like the worst parts of antisematism---

Pope's Personal Preacher: Accusations Against Benedict Are Like 'Anti-Semitism'

I promise to stop "persecuting" them if they make their sworn representatives stop molesting children. :angry:

Tear down the wall of silence in the Roman Catholic Church. - By Christopher Hitchens - Slate Magazine

excerpt:... here is an ancient Christian church that deals in awful certainties when it comes to outright condemnation of sins like divorce, abortion, contraception, and homosexuality between consenting adults. For these offenses there is no forgiveness, and moral absolutism is invoked. Yet let the subject be the rape and torture of defenseless children, and at once every kind of wiggle room and excuse-making is invoked. What can one say of a church that finds so much latitude for a crime so ghastly that no morally normal person can even think of it without shuddering?

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Very interesting thoughts from the writer James Carroll who is a former Catholic priest.

?It's not the Catholic Church that's being destroyed here. It's the Catholic fundamentalist clerical culture, which has betrayed the Church in a very basic way. It's being exposed for what it is.?

He began by arguing that the Church is now under the control of a particular kind of fundamentalism;

We're familiar with Protestant fundamentalism, but there's a Catholic fundamentalism. Only instead of treating the verses of the Bible literally, Catholic fundamentalism has a disproportionate regard for the statements of the Pope. And what we have here [in the abuse scandals] is a revelation of the limits . . . and even of the corruptions of Pope-centered Catholicism.

This emphasis on clerical power and the power of the papacy is not an old tradition, but a relatively new innovation:

You have to go back to the nineteenth century when this obsession with Papal power began to take hold in the Catholic Church. It was when the Pope lost his temporal power over the Papal States in the middle of Italy in 1870, that the bishops rallied around the Pope and gave him ultimate spiritual power. It was only then, for example, in that Council, Vatican I, [that] the infallibility of the Pope was declared to be a doctrine of the Church. Many Catholics think that's an ancient tradition. It is not. It's a modern tradition. . . . That system was a corruption of the Christian tradition.

link:
Ian Masters: James Carroll: The Catholic Church Has To Be Rescued From Catholic Fundamentalism

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It is my opinion that, in most cases, all organized religion is more about money and politics than it is about spirtuality.

Not sure what your definition of organized religion is, but I am sure there are more good ordinary Catholics who are loving, kind, working in their communites for good and would never harm a child than there are bad ones.

If you had said in "some" cases I would agree, but I don't agree to "most" cases nor would I agree that all organized religion is more about money and politics.

When the earthquake hit Haiti and their plight became world news, millions of dollars were sent to their aid. However for many years the people of Haiti have suffered and who came to their aid when it was not world news; organized religious groups.

There is tremendous good that organized religious groups do on a daily basis that will never make the news because it is not shocking.

What has happend to these children over the years is horrible and definitely something has to be done and there should be some type of punishment for the crimes committed, but it's wrong to paint everyone with the same brush for the wrongs of some.

I agree with what you posted, Minnie. The followers- the flock of organized religion really do give and give and the world is generally a better place with them in it.

I don't think Andy was talking about the folks in the audience attending the Sunday performance. I think he was talking about the company that produces the show.

Not sure what your definition of organized religion is, but I am sure there are more good ordinary Catholics who are loving, kind, working in their communites for good and would never harm a child than there are bad ones.

If you had said in "some" cases I would agree, but I don't agree to "most" cases nor would I agree that all organized religion is more about money and politics.

When the earthquake hit Haiti and their plight became world news, millions of dollars were sent to their aid. However for many years the people of Haiti have suffered and who came to their aid when it was not world news; organized religious groups.

There is tremendous good that organized religious groups do on a daily basis that will never make the news because it is not shocking.

What has happend to these children over the years is horrible and definitely something has to be done and there should be some type of punishment for the crimes committed, but it's wrong to paint everyone with the same brush for the wrongs of some.

"some type of punishment" for people protected by the hierarchy fully aware of the crimes committed? would you ask for "some type of punishment for non-clergy? i smell a massively rationalized double standard. the church does good so everything is mostly ok? this type of organized abuse is far worse than an abusive person acting alone. it is borne of arrogance fed by power. how can you not see this? is it because of the specific perpetrators? do you have faith it will self correct?

"some type of punishment" for people protected by the hierarchy fully aware of the crimes committed? would you ask for "some type of punishment for non-clergy? i smell a massively rationalized double standard. the church does good so everything is mostly ok? this type of organized abuse is far worse than an abusive person acting alone. it is borne of arrogance fed by power. how can you not see this? is it because of the specific perpetrators? do you have faith it will self correct?

There is no double standard in any type of punishment as far as I am concerned, those in the wrong need to be punished, period even if that includes the Pope. If he is truly in the wrong he deserves the punishment as much as anyone.

I am not judge and jury so as to the punishment or who deserves it, I will leave that to those more qualifiied.

My point is that not everyone that believes in organized religion, be they Catholic, Protestant, Hindu or Muslin are all the same and they are all definitely not just interested in money or poliltics.

It would be just as wrong to say all Democrats or Republicans act and believe the same as the leaders of each party.

I just do not support stereotyping of any person simply because they are a member of a larger group.

"some type of punishment" for people protected by the hierarchy fully aware of the crimes committed? would you ask for "some type of punishment for non-clergy? i smell a massively rationalized double standard. the church does good so everything is mostly ok? this type of organized abuse is far worse than an abusive person acting alone. it is borne of arrogance fed by power. how can you not see this? is it because of the specific perpetrators? do you have faith it will self correct?

That's a good point. The Mafia was always into lots of legitimate businesses, but did that make them OK? Also I've noticed that a lot of people seem to take the weak , passive, and morally bankrupt position that a lot of the perpetrators will somehow be punished in the afterlife and god will sort it out and all that. Is that absolving yourself of responsibility or what? You know, "move along nothing to see, we have it all under control. I'm texting god as we speak"